Full Version: Who wants to learn to polish?
Truly a thing of Beauty!
Ted, I just read this thing front to back. Best thread I've ever seen. The lowly shimano dx pedals truly came up to the Redline flights they were eventually attached to. I guess you got the spindles? I would love to see more pics of the black bike. That thing is where it's at.
Congrats man. Awesome effort.
Congrats man. Awesome effort.
Wow! really good work there!
Here's my entry, LMK whatcha think...
Stunning! 
Nice work!
Nice work!
QUOTE (Chevron Envy @ Dec 31 2006, 06:22 AM) 
(Sidenote)
Am I the only one who finds it funny that there is a picture of a commercial airliner on the can?
Wouldn't you need 1,000,000 16 oz cans to polish an airliner fuselage?
Since my degree is in advertising those things stand out to me. Sorry to digress.
(Sidenote End)
Am I the only one who finds it funny that there is a picture of a commercial airliner on the can?
Wouldn't you need 1,000,000 16 oz cans to polish an airliner fuselage?
Since my degree is in advertising those things stand out to me. Sorry to digress.
(Sidenote End)
I don't have a degree in advertising but I did polish aircraft at usair and we used Alumnu & Perfect Polish. It came in a can just like that. Later on some one that sat at a desk thought it would be cheaper if we got it in gallon cans. It turned into a lot of wasted product .
I've jumped off the deep end. I started polishing my aluminum cruiser frame this weekend. I'll post some pics when I have something to show. Big thanks to Ted Carl for an awesome how-to and Ed Ferri at Planet BMX for turning me on to "Aircraft Remover" his bottom bracket help too.
Still a work in progress... Would like new decals and chrome LG fork. Whatcha think?Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment
Good thread ! guys dont forget your safety glasses when using those dremels.
From my current build
NICE!
i supose you have to start somewhere, at the very least it will make an interesting 1984 key fob
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Starting somewhere is what it's all about.
Too many people go through life without starting much of anything, for fear of... failure, ...or lack of.... confidence, or humility, or something like that most likely, I suppose.
You start somewhere, then you learn what worked and what didn't. Then you try again, and alter the variables and note the results. Each time improving on the skill. (BMX taught me that!)
Eventually, when you achieve spectacular results, you can revert to the variables you learned along the way to achieve results suitable for many other factors or variables, ....parameters.
If speed is important to a new task, you have learned which way was faster. If accuracy is paramount to a project, you can apply those techniques. If it shouldn't look perfect, but needs a little boost, you know how to do that too now.
And then you can apply your skills to different venues as well.
A little project I have been working on;
My 1959 Glastron needed windshield brackets. The ones I had consisted of one bent up original, and one POS.
The parameters: 1 Wet environment, less maintenance is better. 2 Improved strength. 3 Look original, but improved. 4 Attract enough attention in sunny weather that I can completely upstage boats costing literally 100 times more that mine .
So, here is how I substituted in all the variables: 1. Use 304 Stainless Steel for corrosion resistance. 2. Use 304 SS, and add .050 thickness to the original thickness. 3. Copy original, but improve fit and function. 4. Polish it.
And here is what I created. Shown with the bent up original, and the POS that was bestowed unto me.
So, parameters 1, 2 and 3, seem to have been met. But what about number 4? Will it gather sunlight from the sky, and reflections of sunlight off the water, and beam it like a disco ball into unsuspecting boaters eyeballs everywhere, thus attracting an initial glance, followed by double, and triple takes, and lead to long conversations and hot dates with bikini clad women? Will it still upstage 350K boats?
While there is no proof for number 4 until it hits the sunlight and water, I'm guessing mooooost of it will still hit the mark better than ever.
All that, from one little shiny part. Connected to another, and another...
But... "I suppose it has to start somewhere".
Truthful and worthy words of wizdom to live by. Well done!
Polishing, and other skills in general, separate the doers from the buyers IMO. Yeah, the 350K boats attract a certain clientele. But the majority still appreciate that little glint of sunlight reflected in thier eyeballs, on the one that wasn't so obviously created by someone else's skills.
VBMX is no different. How much can you do with very little? That is the common theme.
Most here know I won at Indy in '81 (whatever, lol) . Most don't know I won on an SX-2000, not a Sting. But I'll not forget that fact, ever. There are some things that money can't buy. Things that only hard work, and starting somewhere, are the only way to get it done. Winning isn't the prize. How you did it is. Think about that...
This is why I like to learn from others, and share what I know with others. Because I've never been able to buy my way into anything, I've always had to "start somewhere" and work hard at it, until I can get what I want out of it.
I am just pleased that I have been able to inspire some people to give something new a go here and there. ....And that there have been people around here that have inspired me to give new things a go as well.
Cheers.
Too many people go through life without starting much of anything, for fear of... failure, ...or lack of.... confidence, or humility, or something like that most likely, I suppose.
You start somewhere, then you learn what worked and what didn't. Then you try again, and alter the variables and note the results. Each time improving on the skill. (BMX taught me that!)
Eventually, when you achieve spectacular results, you can revert to the variables you learned along the way to achieve results suitable for many other factors or variables, ....parameters.
If speed is important to a new task, you have learned which way was faster. If accuracy is paramount to a project, you can apply those techniques. If it shouldn't look perfect, but needs a little boost, you know how to do that too now.
And then you can apply your skills to different venues as well.
A little project I have been working on;
My 1959 Glastron needed windshield brackets. The ones I had consisted of one bent up original, and one POS.
The parameters: 1 Wet environment, less maintenance is better. 2 Improved strength. 3 Look original, but improved. 4 Attract enough attention in sunny weather that I can completely upstage boats costing literally 100 times more that mine .
So, here is how I substituted in all the variables: 1. Use 304 Stainless Steel for corrosion resistance. 2. Use 304 SS, and add .050 thickness to the original thickness. 3. Copy original, but improve fit and function. 4. Polish it.
And here is what I created. Shown with the bent up original, and the POS that was bestowed unto me.
So, parameters 1, 2 and 3, seem to have been met. But what about number 4? Will it gather sunlight from the sky, and reflections of sunlight off the water, and beam it like a disco ball into unsuspecting boaters eyeballs everywhere, thus attracting an initial glance, followed by double, and triple takes, and lead to long conversations and hot dates with bikini clad women? Will it still upstage 350K boats?
While there is no proof for number 4 until it hits the sunlight and water, I'm guessing mooooost of it will still hit the mark better than ever.
All that, from one little shiny part. Connected to another, and another...
But... "I suppose it has to start somewhere".
Truthful and worthy words of wizdom to live by. Well done!
Polishing, and other skills in general, separate the doers from the buyers IMO. Yeah, the 350K boats attract a certain clientele. But the majority still appreciate that little glint of sunlight reflected in thier eyeballs, on the one that wasn't so obviously created by someone else's skills.
VBMX is no different. How much can you do with very little? That is the common theme.
Most here know I won at Indy in '81 (whatever, lol) . Most don't know I won on an SX-2000, not a Sting. But I'll not forget that fact, ever. There are some things that money can't buy. Things that only hard work, and starting somewhere, are the only way to get it done. Winning isn't the prize. How you did it is. Think about that...
This is why I like to learn from others, and share what I know with others. Because I've never been able to buy my way into anything, I've always had to "start somewhere" and work hard at it, until I can get what I want out of it.
I am just pleased that I have been able to inspire some people to give something new a go here and there. ....And that there have been people around here that have inspired me to give new things a go as well.
Cheers.
Cool 
two words inpired an interesting tangent to the bmx restoration world, i ask this question then, does it have to be absolutly perfect? i apreciate the world of NOS i understand the time and effort taken to get it right , but is there a place for " used origonal " somthing the shows the raveges of time and use, i thought about a couple of projects i intend starting , i can buy most of the components NOS and paoduce a gleaming shiney show piece, does that represent what the project was about ? IMO no id rather see old components restored to a standard as good as that idevidual is capable of.Maybe its a UK thing were just used to stuff being sub standard, on that point here is the start of said projects , not perfect but im pleased with the result
Click to view attachment
two words inpired an interesting tangent to the bmx restoration world, i ask this question then, does it have to be absolutly perfect? i apreciate the world of NOS i understand the time and effort taken to get it right , but is there a place for " used origonal " somthing the shows the raveges of time and use, i thought about a couple of projects i intend starting , i can buy most of the components NOS and paoduce a gleaming shiney show piece, does that represent what the project was about ? IMO no id rather see old components restored to a standard as good as that idevidual is capable of.Maybe its a UK thing were just used to stuff being sub standard, on that point here is the start of said projects , not perfect but im pleased with the result Click to view attachment
IMO it never has to be perfect. And never really is, for that matter.
... Unless perfection is the theme you are looking for.
My father was inspecting the work in the above photos. He asked me why I would put such crummy, and ugly, hardware into those brackets.
(Pan head, and straight slot screws). He simply doesn't get it.
They weren't using Nylon tipped internal hex wrenching set screws in 1959. It would be another 10 years before we landed on the moon. When you notice the old looking hardware, most won't notice that it is a hand made part. They won't notice, because it still looks old fashioned, they way they did things back then, with cheap hardware. In fact the whole thing is what you might call, improved stock, or cleverly restored class. In fact, I chose not to polish the counter bore for the attach screw, just to leave it more balanced with everything else. But I leaned it towards the wow end.
Again, the machining marks left in that part, along with old fashioned hardware, make it get attention from the shine, but not get it exploited as 20th century super modifications. Most will never notice, nor even suspect, that it's not original, they probably won't ever look directly at it at all for very long, because there are so many other things to look at. But they will look. Because they will notice how shiny everything looks, and be invited for a closer gander. VBMX bikes are no different.
If a part unbalances the rest of it, that's no good. Sure it might look cool. But does it fit the rest of the build?
Every level of polishing on a VBMX bike is "to taste", or "to suit". But many levels, or degrees of polishing serve a purpose, which is why I started at the 101 level, and then progressed in the thread. To show many degrees of improvement, and many skill levels to aspire to if so desired.
Every VBMX bike that is saved from the land fill needs some lovin'. Cleaning, rust removal, greasing, parts replacement, decal replacement, et al. As well as, paint work ranging from washing and waxing, to touch ups and complete re-painting. During that whole process, polishing everything, from paint to stale anodizing, is all a part of bringing old stuff back to life.
You start somewhere, and bring it up to whatever you want it to be. Sometimes a little goes a long way. Sometimes a little just shows off how crummy the part really is, and you need to go all in on it.
Licking your finger and trying to rub out a smudgy spot is polishing it. Some are happy to stop there, some aren't. But, it's always your call, and always your build. At least when you know how to take it to the next level correctly, you have options. And then you can usually spend more time going forward, than you do going backwards too, which usually makes it more fun as well...
... Unless perfection is the theme you are looking for.
My father was inspecting the work in the above photos. He asked me why I would put such crummy, and ugly, hardware into those brackets.
(Pan head, and straight slot screws). He simply doesn't get it. They weren't using Nylon tipped internal hex wrenching set screws in 1959. It would be another 10 years before we landed on the moon. When you notice the old looking hardware, most won't notice that it is a hand made part. They won't notice, because it still looks old fashioned, they way they did things back then, with cheap hardware. In fact the whole thing is what you might call, improved stock, or cleverly restored class. In fact, I chose not to polish the counter bore for the attach screw, just to leave it more balanced with everything else. But I leaned it towards the wow end.
Again, the machining marks left in that part, along with old fashioned hardware, make it get attention from the shine, but not get it exploited as 20th century super modifications. Most will never notice, nor even suspect, that it's not original, they probably won't ever look directly at it at all for very long, because there are so many other things to look at. But they will look. Because they will notice how shiny everything looks, and be invited for a closer gander. VBMX bikes are no different.
If a part unbalances the rest of it, that's no good. Sure it might look cool. But does it fit the rest of the build?
Every level of polishing on a VBMX bike is "to taste", or "to suit". But many levels, or degrees of polishing serve a purpose, which is why I started at the 101 level, and then progressed in the thread. To show many degrees of improvement, and many skill levels to aspire to if so desired.
Every VBMX bike that is saved from the land fill needs some lovin'. Cleaning, rust removal, greasing, parts replacement, decal replacement, et al. As well as, paint work ranging from washing and waxing, to touch ups and complete re-painting. During that whole process, polishing everything, from paint to stale anodizing, is all a part of bringing old stuff back to life.
You start somewhere, and bring it up to whatever you want it to be. Sometimes a little goes a long way. Sometimes a little just shows off how crummy the part really is, and you need to go all in on it.
Licking your finger and trying to rub out a smudgy spot is polishing it. Some are happy to stop there, some aren't. But, it's always your call, and always your build. At least when you know how to take it to the next level correctly, you have options. And then you can usually spend more time going forward, than you do going backwards too, which usually makes it more fun as well...
I'm transferring my notes from the Oxalic acid string to this polishing string.
I'm restoring a 20" rim. It's the first of four. Badly rusted. I step sanded, twice, from 80 to 600 grit using a Black and Decker Cyclone vibrating sander, mouse type. Realized that the sander was not getting into all the areas of the rim because of the surface mismatches and leaving a lot of pit bottoms.
Made some sanding sticks out of a flexible styrene foam rod to let the sanding surface be resilient enough to get to all the surface area of the rim. Unfortunately the first time through with my new sanding sticks, I did not start with the 80 grit and find myself looking at almost microscopic pits in the rim. They seem to show up more and more the more I polish the rim. Guess I'm back to sanding again, this time starting at 80 using the foam rods.
Found that using a red rouge shines the metal nicely before using any paste wax. I've got pictures of the rim and sanding tools but need to save them until I can call this first rim a success.
I have had a passing thought that the imperfections in the steel rim might just be imperfections in the metal instead of residual pits. Anyhow, here I go again on my forth sanding pass through the grits.
I'm restoring a 20" rim. It's the first of four. Badly rusted. I step sanded, twice, from 80 to 600 grit using a Black and Decker Cyclone vibrating sander, mouse type. Realized that the sander was not getting into all the areas of the rim because of the surface mismatches and leaving a lot of pit bottoms.
Made some sanding sticks out of a flexible styrene foam rod to let the sanding surface be resilient enough to get to all the surface area of the rim. Unfortunately the first time through with my new sanding sticks, I did not start with the 80 grit and find myself looking at almost microscopic pits in the rim. They seem to show up more and more the more I polish the rim. Guess I'm back to sanding again, this time starting at 80 using the foam rods.
Found that using a red rouge shines the metal nicely before using any paste wax. I've got pictures of the rim and sanding tools but need to save them until I can call this first rim a success.
I have had a passing thought that the imperfections in the steel rim might just be imperfections in the metal instead of residual pits. Anyhow, here I go again on my forth sanding pass through the grits.
Eighty grit sanding finished. Starting on the 150 grit sanding. It is taking forever, seemingly, to get all the 80 grit scratches off the rim but I think I'm real close.
If those pits come back when I get into the polishing I'm going to seriously consider that the steel has deformities in it. Right now I can't see anything that even looks like it wants to be a pit, but I didn't the other three times as I was sanding either.
If those pits come back when I get into the polishing I'm going to seriously consider that the steel has deformities in it. Right now I can't see anything that even looks like it wants to be a pit, but I didn't the other three times as I was sanding either.
Hand sanding does indeed suk 
. Haven't figured out how to power up my sanding process. There always seems to be two or three scratches from the previous level sanding that just don't want to sand out. I'm changing directions of the sanding stroke from level to level so I can see if I'm sanding out all the previous level sanding marks. That's something I didn't do before in the past three marches through the grit.
Trying to be very meticulous about being clean going through the grits, even to the point of changing clothes and doing a couple of loads of laundry every night so I'll be ready to go in the morning.
I'm at the 400 grit level now and the steel rim is starting to have a sheen. Still working on a few scratches.
Sure wish an idea would fall out of my head on how to power up these sanding rods.
. Haven't figured out how to power up my sanding process. There always seems to be two or three scratches from the previous level sanding that just don't want to sand out. I'm changing directions of the sanding stroke from level to level so I can see if I'm sanding out all the previous level sanding marks. That's something I didn't do before in the past three marches through the grit.Trying to be very meticulous about being clean going through the grits, even to the point of changing clothes and doing a couple of loads of laundry every night so I'll be ready to go in the morning.
I'm at the 400 grit level now and the steel rim is starting to have a sheen. Still working on a few scratches.
Sure wish an idea would fall out of my head on how to power up these sanding rods.
Maybe by posting a couple pics of the sanding rods, I can enlist some ideas from out there.
Put spray glue on the back of the sheet of sandpaper and wrapped it around the flexible foam rod.
Put spray glue on the back of the sheet of sandpaper and wrapped it around the flexible foam rod.
Finally think I'm making headway. Six hundred grit sanding is done. Hand rubbed some red rouge into the rim to take it from a kind of whitish metal look to a much clearer metal look. I don't see any more of those pesky pits I was having trouble with.
Bought a couple of buffing wheels for my cordless drill. A hard (orange color) wheel and a medium (white color) wheel. Bought a number 2 cleaning compound stick (for steel) and loaded up the orange buffing wheel. VERY NICE! A much deeper clear metal look but I'm starting to see little scratches. I'm hoping the compound stick or the paste wax, for the white color buffing wheel will take out the scratches. I seriously don't want to have to go back to the six hundred grit paper.
Bought a couple of buffing wheels for my cordless drill. A hard (orange color) wheel and a medium (white color) wheel. Bought a number 2 cleaning compound stick (for steel) and loaded up the orange buffing wheel. VERY NICE! A much deeper clear metal look but I'm starting to see little scratches. I'm hoping the compound stick or the paste wax, for the white color buffing wheel will take out the scratches. I seriously don't want to have to go back to the six hundred grit paper.
Well here I am again staring at some 400 grit paper. I made a couple of pics for eventual post on this project and the pics showed up how not ready this rim truly is. It brought out a lot of little swirl scratches and a rat-a-tat-tat machine gun spray pattern of scratches laid down by the edge of the mouse sander, which I used again to speed up the sanding process.
So I'm back to trying to trying to get away from hand sanding with my fabricated sanding rods. From the pictures posted you can not see that there is an one inch hole down the center of the foam rods. BTW the foam rod material was purchased from Walmom's for two bucks in the toy section. It was supposed to be some kind of water toy but is springy enough to make my sandpaper get into non-uniform surfaces. Anyhow, I cut a length of 1" wood dowel to fit down the center of the foam rod and a 3/8ths wood dowel glued into the center of a drilled hole in the 1" wood dowel so the whole contraption will fit into the end of an electric drill. Glue is still setting up. I'm thinking this is going to work to make the sanding process more efficient for me.
The 400 grit paper, I think, will be enough to take the mouse sander scratches out. Don't want to have to go back to 320 and hand sanding the 400 grit paper is making my arm ache. More on the latest toy coming later tomorrow.
So I'm back to trying to trying to get away from hand sanding with my fabricated sanding rods. From the pictures posted you can not see that there is an one inch hole down the center of the foam rods. BTW the foam rod material was purchased from Walmom's for two bucks in the toy section. It was supposed to be some kind of water toy but is springy enough to make my sandpaper get into non-uniform surfaces. Anyhow, I cut a length of 1" wood dowel to fit down the center of the foam rod and a 3/8ths wood dowel glued into the center of a drilled hole in the 1" wood dowel so the whole contraption will fit into the end of an electric drill. Glue is still setting up. I'm thinking this is going to work to make the sanding process more efficient for me.
The 400 grit paper, I think, will be enough to take the mouse sander scratches out. Don't want to have to go back to 320 and hand sanding the 400 grit paper is making my arm ache. More on the latest toy coming later tomorrow.
My new sanding toy works great. Took a picture of it mounted in the drill. Looks like a rolling pin with one of the handles missing. Pay attention to detail about getting the smaller wood dowel hole plumbed in the center of the larger dowel so it doesn't go round like a bent axle.
Still had to go back to the 320 grit to get all the strange scratches out but I'm confident the rest of the sanding process will go much quicker and give my arms a break.
One down side is the sanding bars are a little awkward when mounted in the drill chuck. Think it is too long. Probably could cut the sanding bar in half in length to make it about 6 inches. Will try to get a picture of the sanding tool posted soon.
Still had to go back to the 320 grit to get all the strange scratches out but I'm confident the rest of the sanding process will go much quicker and give my arms a break.
One down side is the sanding bars are a little awkward when mounted in the drill chuck. Think it is too long. Probably could cut the sanding bar in half in length to make it about 6 inches. Will try to get a picture of the sanding tool posted soon.
Got a little more of the sanding done yesterday. Yes, I had to go back to 320 grit to get the rat-a-tat-tat marks of the mouse sander off the rim. Finished with the 400 and 600 grits but maybe only temporarily. Using a buffing cleaner compound #2 that is bringing out the bling but there are still little spider vein scratches that are of concern to me. I'm wondering if more cleaning compound or paste wax will smooth over the spider veins. I'm not as depressed about having to go back to the finer grits because getting them mounted on the drill has reduced my work load considerably. No traction in progress today for the rim. Other matters to attend to. I am trying to shine up the spokes, at least a couple a day, to have them ready to install when the rim comes ready.
Put the rim, spokes, and hub, fully assembled into the oxalic bath to knock down the rust. Big mistake on my part. All the shiny spokes have motley patches and are dull. Next rim, I will disassemble first and only dunk the parts that need the bath. The nipples are very tedious to clean and shine.
Put the rim, spokes, and hub, fully assembled into the oxalic bath to knock down the rust. Big mistake on my part. All the shiny spokes have motley patches and are dull. Next rim, I will disassemble first and only dunk the parts that need the bath. The nipples are very tedious to clean and shine.
Daayuum that was a lot of reading but I learned a lot, Thanks for all the great info Ted, your a true master at restoring things. this is a great thread,Thanks again and keep projects coming along with all the great info .
I agree. A whole lot of reading, but enough info in here to make me "go for it" on my own project.
Life has jumped up and landed square on my plate lately. Just stopped by here to see what's going on and to get some more inspiration to get back to the project.
Life has jumped up and landed square on my plate lately. Just stopped by here to see what's going on and to get some more inspiration to get back to the project.
I have a Diamond Back Turbo stem that is flaking REALLY bad..The Chrome is aweful, and I would like to remove the flaking chrome in order to polish the aluminum stem that is underneath!! How do I get the flaking chrome off without damaging the stem, or making scratches in it before polishing!!
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
And WOW, this has been a helpful thread, you are amazing!!
THX
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
And WOW, this has been a helpful thread, you are amazing!!
THX
QUOTE (Ted Carl @ Dec 2 2006, 05:26 AM)
OK Guys......Who wants to change the pace?
Polishing 102. Mixed abrasive and non-abrasive polishing.
Today I am going to prep a bolt to fix my pro neck on my blue Sting that Pauly broke, and now won't let me hear the end of.
Okie dokie. New metal.
18-8 Stainless Steel.
This is a hardware store 18-8 bolt that I have drilled for a Pro-Neck (Drilling it is not a part of this class.). Who here thinks it looks like poo-poo? Everyone? Good. Me too!
Abrasive polishing is just as it sounds. You use abrasives to polish. It is not very technical, it just takes some practice and some know how, and a few tools and compounds.
It is based on using coarser abrasives and progressing to finer abrasives. Simple. However, If you think that you need to spend hours going from grit, to grit, to grit, to achieve a polish on a very hard stainless steel surface, you are about to be proven wrong.
The big deal in this lesson, is going to be the standard from here on out. When using abrasives, the whole trick to a good finish is "Keeping things straight". Flat, Smooth, and Straight! We never want a distorted reflection! A good mirror is a flat mirror!!!!
Step one will be to sand the part smooth with a belt sander and (somewhat worn) 80 grit paper/belt. First sand the top like this. Rotate the part and understand that as you sand it down it grips the belt better, and tires harder to depart from your grip. It also tries to rotate. You must keep it flat, and try to distribute the sanding pressure evenly. ROTATE the part a few times as you work.
I use a drill and put the bolt in the bit holderthreads first with a peice of rubber hose to protect the threads then I go to to town in the sand paper.WAY FASTER!
Then do the sides. The bolt has a convenient handle to hold it with. Lay it on flat, use both hands to steady it and don't let the sanding angle change from laying flat. Keep the flats nice and square.
When you are done sanding there should be only one nice flat surface on each side, and the surface should have a texture like this.
Now for the next tool on the list.
A 3M Scotch-brite wheel grade 8A or so, and a high speed grinder to turn it. As you will see this is priceless for polishing. The wheel will probably cost more than the grinder. They last a long tme and save hours of work. They are hard, but soft..., fuzzy but gritty... Choose a grinder that turns the wheel at 3450 RPM. It works faster and smoother.
The same rules apply to these wheels as others. Notable rotate the part WITH the direction of rotation.
Rotate the part to get the edges like this.
The top is easy to keep flat, just spin it in circles.
The sides are the trick to keep straight. Simply hold the parts with the flats straight up. Move your hands in a circular motion, about one round per second. The wheel only touches the part at the 90 degree point. When you near the top and bottom edges of your part, as you are moving it in a vertical circle, you will hear the change in the sound of the wheel fuzz nipping at the edges. Just keep the circle the size that makes that sound on the top and bottom. This will remove all the big scratches from the 80 grit belt sanding.
<small>[ December 02, 2006, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]</small>
Polishing 102. Mixed abrasive and non-abrasive polishing.
Today I am going to prep a bolt to fix my pro neck on my blue Sting that Pauly broke, and now won't let me hear the end of.
Okie dokie. New metal.
18-8 Stainless Steel.
This is a hardware store 18-8 bolt that I have drilled for a Pro-Neck (Drilling it is not a part of this class.). Who here thinks it looks like poo-poo? Everyone? Good. Me too!
Abrasive polishing is just as it sounds. You use abrasives to polish. It is not very technical, it just takes some practice and some know how, and a few tools and compounds.
It is based on using coarser abrasives and progressing to finer abrasives. Simple. However, If you think that you need to spend hours going from grit, to grit, to grit, to achieve a polish on a very hard stainless steel surface, you are about to be proven wrong.
The big deal in this lesson, is going to be the standard from here on out. When using abrasives, the whole trick to a good finish is "Keeping things straight". Flat, Smooth, and Straight! We never want a distorted reflection! A good mirror is a flat mirror!!!!
Step one will be to sand the part smooth with a belt sander and (somewhat worn) 80 grit paper/belt. First sand the top like this. Rotate the part and understand that as you sand it down it grips the belt better, and tires harder to depart from your grip. It also tries to rotate. You must keep it flat, and try to distribute the sanding pressure evenly. ROTATE the part a few times as you work.
I use a drill and put the bolt in the bit holderthreads first with a peice of rubber hose to protect the threads then I go to to town in the sand paper.WAY FASTER!
Then do the sides. The bolt has a convenient handle to hold it with. Lay it on flat, use both hands to steady it and don't let the sanding angle change from laying flat. Keep the flats nice and square.
When you are done sanding there should be only one nice flat surface on each side, and the surface should have a texture like this.
Now for the next tool on the list.
A 3M Scotch-brite wheel grade 8A or so, and a high speed grinder to turn it. As you will see this is priceless for polishing. The wheel will probably cost more than the grinder. They last a long tme and save hours of work. They are hard, but soft..., fuzzy but gritty... Choose a grinder that turns the wheel at 3450 RPM. It works faster and smoother.
The same rules apply to these wheels as others. Notable rotate the part WITH the direction of rotation.
Rotate the part to get the edges like this.
The top is easy to keep flat, just spin it in circles.
The sides are the trick to keep straight. Simply hold the parts with the flats straight up. Move your hands in a circular motion, about one round per second. The wheel only touches the part at the 90 degree point. When you near the top and bottom edges of your part, as you are moving it in a vertical circle, you will hear the change in the sound of the wheel fuzz nipping at the edges. Just keep the circle the size that makes that sound on the top and bottom. This will remove all the big scratches from the 80 grit belt sanding.
<small>[ December 02, 2006, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]</small>
That was amazing. Thanks Ted. I'm in the process of trying to get a hold of a used 2006 We The People bike, and yes, I know it's not vintage but the bike is pretty roughed up and factoring in the insane import tariffs here in Korea as well as the international shipping rates, I feel more comfortable getting it and having something to do on the weekends by making the already decent stock parts even better looking.
The only question I have is after all the polishing is said and done, is there something the parts need to retain their luster or is it just a matter of sitting down at the bike for an hour every couple of weeks and buffing things up?
Cheers,
roadwork
The only question I have is after all the polishing is said and done, is there something the parts need to retain their luster or is it just a matter of sitting down at the bike for an hour every couple of weeks and buffing things up?
Cheers,
roadwork
QUOTE (Ted Carl @ Dec 2 2006, 06:36 AM)
When you are done here, your finish will look like this....
Now when you part looks like this it is time to move down to the next step of abrasives.You need a polishing wheel. Generally speaking I will preach this wisdom; Flat parts, flat tools. Round parts, round tools.
In this case, the metal is hard, and the flats are small, so a wheel works fastest, and can be controlled adequately. This is not true on most aluminum parts, but I'll save that for a later item.
Choose a wheel that is firm for metals. See how this wheel is sewn to the edge of it. The ones that are soft and fluffy are for plastic and stuff.
Choose a compound for " hard metal, removing defects, in this step. Not the most aggressive, but somewhere in the middle of the scheme of things. put some stuff on and do the exact same thing you did on the 3M wheel.
The finish you get from this should look like this. You will notice I have left a blemish from the get go, so you can follow it, and see why it has to be done right, and all the damage has to be gone, from step one. Besides, the wedge bolt goes there anyway....lol.
If you think we are going to stop here, you are nuts....
Now, if you want to you can add some milder polish to the wheel, and get it just a smidge shinier.
Here is where we trasition to Non-Abrasive Polish. Again, Met-All is being used.
Same tools. Same plan. Goop it up. Turn your mouse pad to a fresh side, and go to town. As long as the mouse is leaving swirls on the surface while you are polishing, it is still working.
Do this at least 4 times. Goop, and polish, goop and polish. Each time polish until you think it should be good, then do it again....6 times is better, but 4 is what I did here.
And what do we have to show for 1/2 hours labor time? (and 2 hours typing time, sheesh!, lol)
And I like this one, it looks like the surface of Jupiter, complete with an eye of a storm (the pit). Or a nebula being swallowed by a black hole. Or like liquid Mercury oozing over the top and down the sides......
And here we are again....at the
BEFORE....
AFTER 30 minutes of a labor of love. (Or a disease????)
Cheers!
T
<small>[ December 02, 2006, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]</small>
Now when you part looks like this it is time to move down to the next step of abrasives.You need a polishing wheel. Generally speaking I will preach this wisdom; Flat parts, flat tools. Round parts, round tools.
In this case, the metal is hard, and the flats are small, so a wheel works fastest, and can be controlled adequately. This is not true on most aluminum parts, but I'll save that for a later item.
Choose a wheel that is firm for metals. See how this wheel is sewn to the edge of it. The ones that are soft and fluffy are for plastic and stuff.
Choose a compound for " hard metal, removing defects, in this step. Not the most aggressive, but somewhere in the middle of the scheme of things. put some stuff on and do the exact same thing you did on the 3M wheel.
The finish you get from this should look like this. You will notice I have left a blemish from the get go, so you can follow it, and see why it has to be done right, and all the damage has to be gone, from step one. Besides, the wedge bolt goes there anyway....lol.
If you think we are going to stop here, you are nuts....
Now, if you want to you can add some milder polish to the wheel, and get it just a smidge shinier.
Here is where we trasition to Non-Abrasive Polish. Again, Met-All is being used.
Same tools. Same plan. Goop it up. Turn your mouse pad to a fresh side, and go to town. As long as the mouse is leaving swirls on the surface while you are polishing, it is still working.
Do this at least 4 times. Goop, and polish, goop and polish. Each time polish until you think it should be good, then do it again....6 times is better, but 4 is what I did here.
And what do we have to show for 1/2 hours labor time? (and 2 hours typing time, sheesh!, lol)
And I like this one, it looks like the surface of Jupiter, complete with an eye of a storm (the pit). Or a nebula being swallowed by a black hole. Or like liquid Mercury oozing over the top and down the sides......
And here we are again....at the
BEFORE....
AFTER 30 minutes of a labor of love. (Or a disease????)
Cheers!
T
<small>[ December 02, 2006, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]</small>
Muy bueno!!!
I restored a bunch of parts for Chris B about 5 years or so ago, like a torker stem, a bunch of ESP stems, Tuff-neck, etc. I even did a Profile stem just like the one restored upthread.
I used many similar techniques, especially feathering nicks and dings to make them less noticeable. The difference in my style was no power tools used, and I used a flat rectangle shaped stainless tray about 3 inches deep. I placed various grades of wet or dry sandpaper (final sanding is 2000 grit) on the bottom and filled the tray w/ an inch or so of water. The water flushes away particulate from the part as I block sanded, preventing it from grinding back into the part and defeating what I was tying to achieve. Block sand all flat parts for best results and dowl and hand sand radiuses. It is more time consuming without power tools, but I think the results speak with a more controlled application, reducing the potential for removing too much material from a rare component that would be difficult to replace. I think if you are a restoration beginner, you might consider this technique at first and add power tools as you become more experienced and confident.
I use oven cleaner to remove anodizing. I have used Sodium hydroxide in the past, but oven cleaner contains sufficient amounts of lye to remove ano without the mixing hazards. It smells lemony fresh as well. For beginners, heavy-duty Easy-Off gets the job done.
Also, it is possible to over restore components beyond how the original mfr sold it. Sure a set of Phil hubs or spider, or even a Redline chainwheel will look cool polished out like chrome, but the E.C.P. (era correct police) will call you out. If you say "who cares, it's my bike and I want bling" regardless of what the ECP says, by all means, go for it. Restoring parts is fun, fairly inexpensive to do, and rewarding as an end result.
I used many similar techniques, especially feathering nicks and dings to make them less noticeable. The difference in my style was no power tools used, and I used a flat rectangle shaped stainless tray about 3 inches deep. I placed various grades of wet or dry sandpaper (final sanding is 2000 grit) on the bottom and filled the tray w/ an inch or so of water. The water flushes away particulate from the part as I block sanded, preventing it from grinding back into the part and defeating what I was tying to achieve. Block sand all flat parts for best results and dowl and hand sand radiuses. It is more time consuming without power tools, but I think the results speak with a more controlled application, reducing the potential for removing too much material from a rare component that would be difficult to replace. I think if you are a restoration beginner, you might consider this technique at first and add power tools as you become more experienced and confident.
I use oven cleaner to remove anodizing. I have used Sodium hydroxide in the past, but oven cleaner contains sufficient amounts of lye to remove ano without the mixing hazards. It smells lemony fresh as well. For beginners, heavy-duty Easy-Off gets the job done.
Also, it is possible to over restore components beyond how the original mfr sold it. Sure a set of Phil hubs or spider, or even a Redline chainwheel will look cool polished out like chrome, but the E.C.P. (era correct police) will call you out. If you say "who cares, it's my bike and I want bling" regardless of what the ECP says, by all means, go for it. Restoring parts is fun, fairly inexpensive to do, and rewarding as an end result.
Epic.
That took a while to read (broke it up over a couple days); very informative.
Then I notice the other "Oxalic Acid. Removing rust from Chrome the very best way!" thread is 27 pages long.
So, I will take the "Epic" back from this thread and will post that into the OA thread when done.
That took a while to read (broke it up over a couple days); very informative.
Then I notice the other "Oxalic Acid. Removing rust from Chrome the very best way!" thread is 27 pages long.
So, I will take the "Epic" back from this thread and will post that into the OA thread when done.
Is there anything to coat the polished finish with to retain the luster?
Most of ther polishes used protect them pretty well. Just need to give them a quick wipe with another softer polish.
I did a few experiments today with satin finishes. The hub at the back is an SR from a proclass rim. It was in a really sad state and was covered with tiny nicks.
I did a few experiments today with satin finishes. The hub at the back is an SR from a proclass rim. It was in a really sad state and was covered with tiny nicks.
For an upcoming winter project, I'm thinking about polishing up a set of stripped rims. Unfortunately, I don't really have access to any tools that I could use to polish, so i was wondering if anyone has ever polished an aluminum rim by hand. Any suggestions?
This thread is awesome. Kudos to you for sharing this information. There is a wealth of knowledge that I simply had no clue about. .....like what is required for preping a product before taking it to a shop. I simply had no clue.
Don't hesitate sharing the advanced math stuff. I soaked every bit of it in a 3 hour read.
Don't hesitate sharing the advanced math stuff. I soaked every bit of it in a 3 hour read.
QUOTE (Ted Carl @ Mar 7 2008, 01:35 AM)
It seems to be working for people! Hats off to all, nice work!
Keep em coming!
T
Keep em coming!
T
Hi Ted, yet another word of thanks for your invested time. My collection of tools has grown significantly over the months and I'm finally starting get results like this..... (home made decals as well)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I do have a question for you or anyone else about chain rings. The mouse sander with varying grades of paper followed by the 3M pads gets me very quickly to a polishing stage, but I find using the polishing wheel it tends to "round" the edges of the holes for the chainring bolts, and because I'm moving the chainring in a circular motion over the wheel, each hole is rounded off in the same place. What's the best way to keep a nice clean edge??
Thanks
QUOTE (gt88 @ Oct 7 2010, 08:09 AM)
Hi Ted, yet another word of thanks for your invested time. My collection of tools has grown significantly over the months and I'm finally starting get results like this..... (home made decals as well)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I do have a question for you or anyone else about chain rings. The mouse sander with varying grades of paper followed by the 3M pads gets me very quickly to a polishing stage, but I find using the polishing wheel it tends to "round" the edges of the holes for the chainring bolts, and because I'm moving the chainring in a circular motion over the wheel, each hole is rounded off in the same place. What's the best way to keep a nice clean edge??
Thanks
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I do have a question for you or anyone else about chain rings. The mouse sander with varying grades of paper followed by the 3M pads gets me very quickly to a polishing stage, but I find using the polishing wheel it tends to "round" the edges of the holes for the chainring bolts, and because I'm moving the chainring in a circular motion over the wheel, each hole is rounded off in the same place. What's the best way to keep a nice clean edge??
Thanks
Looks awesome guys!
Glad it's been of use!
As for the chain ring holes, it seems no matter what you do, you are going to get a little of that rounding going on, but you guys have the hang of it now, and will be schooling me soon enough!
In regards to the following post....
...will this technique work with pitted or dented aluminum?
I have a component I intend to paint over. Can I place some sort of solder and then sand it down smooth with the intent of painting over? I guess my concern is the solder taking hold.
QUOTE (Ted Carl @ Aug 31 2007, 02:26 AM)
OK, I think this will be my final update on this project for a while.
I think that it is probably way over the top, and not generating a lot of "Do it yourself" polishing interest. I have also done some things to it that I'm just not going to cover much on, for the same reasons.
Rough polishing done to see where things stand. Here are some pits that are too deep to remove by grinding and sanding.
To fix pits like this you can use brazing as I have done in the past, but this time I am trying something different. I am using low temp silver solder to fill small pits. In theory there should be no problem doing it this way, except for one, and I'll see how this pans out according to my theory.
Using a teeny weeny dremel bit, make the pits a tiny bit bigger. The pits go straight down, and solder will NOT flow into there. So you need to taper the edges of the pit so that solder will flow into them. (there is liquid flux on the holes in the pic, as I was getting ready to solder and almost forgot to take a pic.)
Using a propane torch and liquid flux just fill the pits.
If they don't take solder, just repeat the procedure with the dremel and re-flux, and re-heat it.
Do the same with any other pits you still have.
Once filled just mouse sand.
Then polish.
Now here's the rub, and the catch that I am hoping will come out as planned. Whenever you fill a pit with brazing, the brazing is softer than the parent metal, so it tends to polish slightly unevenly. The silver solder is even softer. Soooo, according to my theory, when the copper plating is done, this should fill the ever so slight unevenness, and when they buff the copper coat, it will all be the same material that they are buffing, and it should fill and just about disappear when buffed. It works with brazing, but the solder leaves just a bit more of a step there. I am certain that there will be a hint of it left, but it should be a whole lot better than leaving a big pit. Also, fwiw, pits don't like to fill with chrome, so it leaves a spot for future corrosion to continue from.
Here is one of the things that I am not going to go very far into. We want to keep the welds looking original. But, inevitably, there will be some areas that the welds get screwed up and look funny for many reasons.
Fortunately, welds are irregular, especially on this one, and they can be "replaced" or "reshaped" with a Dremel, and some thought and care. If done right, one will never know the difference. Some reshaping of the welds can make all the difference in the finished product. All the tools used have been shown before here, such as brite boy pencil tips, and spur bits, etc...
Just carve out any missing weld scallops, and blend them in. (Easier said than done, so I will leave it at that). If you were to guess which welds I worked on, I guarantee no more than a 50/50 chance at getting it right without a 10x magnifying glass. maybe less. As it turns out, a friend proved it for me, the ones that look worked on are actually the untouched ones. If you've made it this far, and you'll know whether or not you can/should "try this at home".
All buffing was done with my 90 degree high speed and a 3 inch wheel. I have only taken it up to the "emery" stage, and I only completed the hard to get to areas, such as around welds, and inside frames, and in the damaged/repaired areas.
Here's the deal. If you want to do it all, you move up to rouge, and for chroming steel, that is all the farther you really need to go.
HOWEVER, I do not own a 3 HP/18 inch buffer. So I have saved myself a LOT of money, and done a LOT of work that would have NEVER gotten done by the platers, but I am going to let them use their 18 inch wheels on their high torque/high powered buffers to do the final buffing. What would take me 10 hours to do here, can be done in 10 minutes there with the right tool. So they will be able to just rip around the open areas.
They will start with emery as they always do, which takes a lot of material off, and then they will go to rouge. So, why would I waste my time polishing some areas to a mirror, when they are going to be going back over many of those areas anyway?
So this is about ready for the plater. You are never done polishing, you just quit working on it. And when one project starts interfering with other things, you quit even sooner. lol.
I think that it is probably way over the top, and not generating a lot of "Do it yourself" polishing interest. I have also done some things to it that I'm just not going to cover much on, for the same reasons.
Rough polishing done to see where things stand. Here are some pits that are too deep to remove by grinding and sanding.
To fix pits like this you can use brazing as I have done in the past, but this time I am trying something different. I am using low temp silver solder to fill small pits. In theory there should be no problem doing it this way, except for one, and I'll see how this pans out according to my theory.
Using a teeny weeny dremel bit, make the pits a tiny bit bigger. The pits go straight down, and solder will NOT flow into there. So you need to taper the edges of the pit so that solder will flow into them. (there is liquid flux on the holes in the pic, as I was getting ready to solder and almost forgot to take a pic.)
Using a propane torch and liquid flux just fill the pits.
If they don't take solder, just repeat the procedure with the dremel and re-flux, and re-heat it.
Do the same with any other pits you still have.
Once filled just mouse sand.
Then polish.
Now here's the rub, and the catch that I am hoping will come out as planned. Whenever you fill a pit with brazing, the brazing is softer than the parent metal, so it tends to polish slightly unevenly. The silver solder is even softer. Soooo, according to my theory, when the copper plating is done, this should fill the ever so slight unevenness, and when they buff the copper coat, it will all be the same material that they are buffing, and it should fill and just about disappear when buffed. It works with brazing, but the solder leaves just a bit more of a step there. I am certain that there will be a hint of it left, but it should be a whole lot better than leaving a big pit. Also, fwiw, pits don't like to fill with chrome, so it leaves a spot for future corrosion to continue from.
Here is one of the things that I am not going to go very far into. We want to keep the welds looking original. But, inevitably, there will be some areas that the welds get screwed up and look funny for many reasons.
Fortunately, welds are irregular, especially on this one, and they can be "replaced" or "reshaped" with a Dremel, and some thought and care. If done right, one will never know the difference. Some reshaping of the welds can make all the difference in the finished product. All the tools used have been shown before here, such as brite boy pencil tips, and spur bits, etc...
Just carve out any missing weld scallops, and blend them in. (Easier said than done, so I will leave it at that). If you were to guess which welds I worked on, I guarantee no more than a 50/50 chance at getting it right without a 10x magnifying glass. maybe less. As it turns out, a friend proved it for me, the ones that look worked on are actually the untouched ones. If you've made it this far, and you'll know whether or not you can/should "try this at home".
All buffing was done with my 90 degree high speed and a 3 inch wheel. I have only taken it up to the "emery" stage, and I only completed the hard to get to areas, such as around welds, and inside frames, and in the damaged/repaired areas.
Here's the deal. If you want to do it all, you move up to rouge, and for chroming steel, that is all the farther you really need to go.
HOWEVER, I do not own a 3 HP/18 inch buffer. So I have saved myself a LOT of money, and done a LOT of work that would have NEVER gotten done by the platers, but I am going to let them use their 18 inch wheels on their high torque/high powered buffers to do the final buffing. What would take me 10 hours to do here, can be done in 10 minutes there with the right tool. So they will be able to just rip around the open areas.
They will start with emery as they always do, which takes a lot of material off, and then they will go to rouge. So, why would I waste my time polishing some areas to a mirror, when they are going to be going back over many of those areas anyway?
So this is about ready for the plater. You are never done polishing, you just quit working on it. And when one project starts interfering with other things, you quit even sooner. lol.
...will this technique work with pitted or dented aluminum?
I have a component I intend to paint over. Can I place some sort of solder and then sand it down smooth with the intent of painting over? I guess my concern is the solder taking hold.
I thought this thread was learning to speak "Polish" ?! Seriously though nice tuteledge !
Seriously though nice tuteledge !
Sweet work
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