Ok, I see the NOS posting about wheels got closed so I'll be so bold as to place another one out there with a different angle....
I can say this because I just got taken for $300 on a NOS deal, by one of the vbmx members no less.
Here is what I propose:
Since words and definitions are constantly evolving in the English language, why not set a well defined and described list of standards. Yes, the good old Scientific method..
New Old Stock/NOS to the general public or ebay is simply a selling tactic. Similar to buying a car with "ice cold air conditioning" from a shady car lot dealer in the middle of July. When you see that word you should immediately run.
But to the enthusiasts here on Vintage BMX, it is clear that the word has a near religious connotation. As if the word NOS when spoken rises above the very integrity of the person saying it.
So let's be productive here and make a well defined standard that you can permanently post for all to see. Then you'd no longer have continual threads and debates on the subject.
only my humble thoughts.
cheers.
Full Version: New Old Stock. ha ha ha
NOS = New Old Stock not MINT CONDITION
I personally don't assume MINT condition, only that the part has never been used before. The part certainly could have been sold, perhaps taken out of the package, whatever, but I think, NOS means original production not a repop.
Condition is a different animal. I've certainly purchased parts at a bike shop "new" that were already scratched or had wear marks on them. In most cases though, it was for something that I'm riding, so looks weren't as important as function.
I personally don't assume MINT condition, only that the part has never been used before. The part certainly could have been sold, perhaps taken out of the package, whatever, but I think, NOS means original production not a repop.
Condition is a different animal. I've certainly purchased parts at a bike shop "new" that were already scratched or had wear marks on them. In most cases though, it was for something that I'm riding, so looks weren't as important as function.
everyone knows what the definition is. the term is used across all collectible hobbies, sometimes referred to as "dead stock". it means old inventory, remaining in its original packaging, never sold retail. it can have rust, decay, and shop wear. but it cannot ever have been used.
[ October 25, 2006, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: TIM ]
[ October 25, 2006, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: TIM ]
Tim I know what your saying but when someone lists week after week and they are being sold each week/ F/F sticker sets that are NOS sets .and not saying they are repops .come on guys how many complete sets you got ?? Really I dont care if there repops as I have had many sets made its just too hard to find them NOS everyday . NOS is NOS not NOS repops!!!!! Keep the peace!! SK
I'm with tim and Joker,
when restoring old chev's or bmx's NOS means NEW (not used!!) OLD STOCK, It has no bearing on the condition. It can have dust, can be damaged(dropped), scratched, rusted, flaking, faded, just NOT USED for the purpose it was intended. So you would do well to ask the condition if you were concerned. Finding things in boxes is certainly the holy grail but they can always be stored or handled incorrectly.
as an example these hubs are NOS but the annodizing is a bit dodgy. "shop wear"
if something is mint then it's "mint" not NOS it, may have been used.
when restoring old chev's or bmx's NOS means NEW (not used!!) OLD STOCK, It has no bearing on the condition. It can have dust, can be damaged(dropped), scratched, rusted, flaking, faded, just NOT USED for the purpose it was intended. So you would do well to ask the condition if you were concerned. Finding things in boxes is certainly the holy grail but they can always be stored or handled incorrectly.
as an example these hubs are NOS but the annodizing is a bit dodgy. "shop wear"
if something is mint then it's "mint" not NOS it, may have been used.
Oh yeah And OLD STOCK (actual old stock) not REPRODUCTION of old stock.
sorry the hubs arent the only thing that's dodgy, so is the camera man, or the focus
sorry the hubs arent the only thing that's dodgy, so is the camera man, or the focus
Excellent. I think someone should write up a specific definition so whenever someone has a concern on this website it is obvious. Might even help define all the NOS misconceptions that many seem to use either intentionally or unintentionally.
NOS=No evidence of ever being installed. All bike parts need to be secured to a bike in some way. It can be out of the package, have shelf wear, or weathering but no tool marks or marks from being installed.
I'll even accept NOS as having been installed on a showbike, but never 'used'. The best advice is to ask ALL questions or demand pics from several angles if you are that uptight about the purchase.
I've sold D-C MX-xxxx brakes that I rode for several years but were still in better condition than any 'NOS' sets I've seen, or received. (the black ones have an awesome finish) Naturally I listed them as used and explained the condition. Everyone was happy.
When listed as NOS I find dust, out-of-the-package, SLIGHT fading acceptable. Rust, chips, missing parts MUST be mentioned for me to find the deal successful.
Again, insist on details or beware.
I've sold D-C MX-xxxx brakes that I rode for several years but were still in better condition than any 'NOS' sets I've seen, or received. (the black ones have an awesome finish) Naturally I listed them as used and explained the condition. Everyone was happy.
When listed as NOS I find dust, out-of-the-package, SLIGHT fading acceptable. Rust, chips, missing parts MUST be mentioned for me to find the deal successful.
Again, insist on details or beware.
quote:I have to respectfully disagree with the above statement. If a part has been mounted, even finger tight, it can not be new old stock. That same part can be 'mint' or 'like new', but can not by definition be NOS.
"I'll even accept NOS as having been installed on a showbike, but never 'used'"
Jesse d
caveat emptor
I'd accept finger tight. Unless the incredible hulk "finger" tightened it... I like Doug's definition, that's why I tried to make the point I made in the other thread. I view parts as he does, never have been mounted on a bike. I'll stop here however before I amke a reference or something to the locked thread, and say anything that would cause this one to be locked as well.
I didn't see the other thread, however I don't see what part of "new" is difficult to understand. (not used) right???.....
Tim's definition above is what most go by. In the package may be hard though, epecially for stems. Back in the day I never saw a stem in plastic. They always had them lined up in the display cases. I honestly think the only ones I have seen like that are on e-bay.
The wheel debacle got out of hand because some see the wheel as a whole, not used until put on a bike. Some see it as parts that are used in the process of building it. I think for every other part the definition is pretty cut and dry.
The wheel debacle got out of hand because some see the wheel as a whole, not used until put on a bike. Some see it as parts that are used in the process of building it. I think for every other part the definition is pretty cut and dry.
This whole "collectable" thing is getting crazy. I am also into high-end stereo systems. Many years ago when vacuum tubes started making a come-back, we started seeing NOS tubes for sale. NOS meant old tubes that had never been used OR sold at the retail level.
There were several factorys in China & Russia that had huge stockpiles of these tubes. Both countries military used vacuum tube electronics for years after we went solid-state. US retailers got ahold of these & sold them as NOS.
So from my point of view, the rusty Flight spindle I put on my new bike is NOS. I got it from a guy who owned a bike shop that went out of business & he gave me a box of parts. I also have a Nippon brake set that I used for a few months many years ago. Those are Mint not NOS because they have been sold but they look brand new. If those same Nippons were on a store display bike that was parted out, they could be NOS and still have a mint used appearance.
We should agree on a standard so that NOS does really mean something. I say old stock, never sold retail.
There were several factorys in China & Russia that had huge stockpiles of these tubes. Both countries military used vacuum tube electronics for years after we went solid-state. US retailers got ahold of these & sold them as NOS.
So from my point of view, the rusty Flight spindle I put on my new bike is NOS. I got it from a guy who owned a bike shop that went out of business & he gave me a box of parts. I also have a Nippon brake set that I used for a few months many years ago. Those are Mint not NOS because they have been sold but they look brand new. If those same Nippons were on a store display bike that was parted out, they could be NOS and still have a mint used appearance.
We should agree on a standard so that NOS does really mean something. I say old stock, never sold retail.
I hereby announce the new standard;
From this day forth it shall be.
SOUAATOEMITPTBIFPBRCBITDWTSUPCASOCABOEMTAAAFWCOTI.
This is to be defined as;
Same original unmodified appearance as the original equipment manufacturer intended the product to be in for purchase by retail customers back in the day, with the same unmodified physical condition and state of component assembly intended by the original manufacturer to apply any applicable factory warranty coverage on the item.
Note; AAWCMBNEOTIDTTOEMBLOB.
Although actual warranty coverage may be non-existent on the items due to the original equipment manufacturer being long out of business.
And during the transition;
TYFYPDTTOTWTHGSSTADTRDONOS
Thank you for your patience during this turbulent time of turmoil while the hobby's greatest scientific minds strive to accurately define the real definition of New Old Stock. (NOS)
In time it is my hope that this acronym can be shortened to the readily apparent words contained within the full acronym;
WTSUP BLOB
Note, this is not a joke.....
Click here for the official introduction of the new standard..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=250041859882
From this day forth it shall be.
SOUAATOEMITPTBIFPBRCBITDWTSUPCASOCABOEMTAAAFWCOTI.
This is to be defined as;
Same original unmodified appearance as the original equipment manufacturer intended the product to be in for purchase by retail customers back in the day, with the same unmodified physical condition and state of component assembly intended by the original manufacturer to apply any applicable factory warranty coverage on the item.
Note; AAWCMBNEOTIDTTOEMBLOB.
Although actual warranty coverage may be non-existent on the items due to the original equipment manufacturer being long out of business.
And during the transition;
TYFYPDTTOTWTHGSSTADTRDONOS
Thank you for your patience during this turbulent time of turmoil while the hobby's greatest scientific minds strive to accurately define the real definition of New Old Stock. (NOS)
In time it is my hope that this acronym can be shortened to the readily apparent words contained within the full acronym;
WTSUP BLOB
Note, this is not a joke.....
Click here for the official introduction of the new standard..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=250041859882
That settles it. Ted's oustside the box thinking takes care of everything.
what ever happened to the old collectable rating system of:
M (mint) - NM (Near Mint) -E (Excellent) - VG (Very Good) - G (Good) - F (Fine)...
NOS means unused, or in BMX's case unmounted. But it doesn't mean any of the above.
M (mint) - NM (Near Mint) -E (Excellent) - VG (Very Good) - G (Good) - F (Fine)...
NOS means unused, or in BMX's case unmounted. But it doesn't mean any of the above.
Ted Rocks!
It really sucks when something you want is now considered collectable. Now we have to watch out for price gouging & those who pass off repops for NOS. Not to mention those whose have varied ideas of what mint really means.
It really sucks when something you want is now considered collectable. Now we have to watch out for price gouging & those who pass off repops for NOS. Not to mention those whose have varied ideas of what mint really means.
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