I have a set of used double pinch flights--my first ever flights. Are the arms supposed to easily slide on and off the spindle. One was already attached to the spindle out of the box--I can't get that one off. Trying to install them and now I can't get the drive side arm on. Looking at the connection of arm to spindle end it doesn't look like the notches line up very well--as if they are not quite designed to go together. The depth and width of the notches seem a bit different. Is that normal? I hate to start pounding on this thing...

sounds like you may have a mixed set. there were a few very minor spec changes (and quality control issues) over the years and your problem can be one of the results.

the first thing to do is make sure the arms and spindle are both have the same origin - either both USA made or both taiwanese made. best way to check this is by all the bolts. USA = american bolts, taiwan = metric bolts.

unless something is really F'd up, all taiwanese parts should go together with no problems. USA with taiwan is a problem and some USA/USA combos are a problem.

the easiest combo-problem to recognize is in the shape of the spindle splines:

are the spline corners "square" or are they chamfered? if they are square, line up the spindle to the arm and look thru the arm like you were looking thru a keyhole. does it appear that the corners of the spindle are what is impeding the parts from going together? if so, this combo won't work (without some modification).

if the spline corners are chamfered, try a little light to moderate tapping. snug (too tight to do it by hand) is OK, but if you have to get after it too much that's no good.

check this stuff, report back and we'll proceed from there if it's still a no-go. (you can e-mail me, also...link is above^^^) -chris

thank you thank you, I'll take picts and send

I bought a new set of Flight 2's from Dans back in March.
Had a hard time getting the arms to slide onto the spindle. When I looked thru the 'keyhole' that Mr. Coaster is talking about, it looked like the arm splines were too big. I had to file the corners more on an angle to get them on. I've been using them since with no problems.

that's very helpful radlad - since one of the arms in my set is already on the spindle I sort of assume they are meant for each other. It just seems kinda stupid that they aren't a better match for one another. I see the same thing, arm splines are a bit too wide and could be a tad taller if they were to fit perfectly. Sloppy stuff for this day and age.

i think part of the problem was/is changing of manufacturers here and there along the way.

you get you crate of left arms, a crate right arms and another of spindles. later on you get some more from a different source, parts get mixed when packaging and you end up with a mix of parts who's various fabricators have slightly different tolerances.

Hey there Nic, I know exactly what your talking about. I bought 2 sets of 2006 Redline Flight II's a couple months ago. I took both sets out of the box and test fit them and I got the same results. On one of the spindles I can get the crank arm on in two of the six positions and the other side three of the six positions. The other spindle I can the get the crank arm on in one of six postions and two of six positions on the other side. I even deburred the inside of one set of arms and they still wouldn't go on in all six postions on either side like there supposed to. The only way to get them on in any position is to beat them on. And your NOT supposed to have to do that with Flight cranks. The fit/finish and overall quality are utter garbage. Besides the obvious arm to spindle fit issue, the threads on both arms looked chewed up and mangled. It looked like the tap they used was worn and damaged and was cuting incomplete threads. The pedals and sprocket bolt wouldn't thread in all the way. The spindle was ground oblong. On the ends they grind the spindle down a little from the 3/4" od to fit the arms on. You could see where the grinder hit one side of the spindle and not the other. You could see the seam where they welded the cranks together as clear as day. The arms didn't look like "one-piece" . The chrome finish was terrible. And Redline now uses a 8mmx1.0 thread spindle bolt to hold the arms to the spindle. The problem with this thread size is it's a total bastard size that no one carrys. I tried to get some button head screws to give the cranks the old school Flight look and every bolt company I talked to said that size is an oddball thread and I'd have a hard time finding it. I even looked online at a bunch of places. I don't know when Redline switched to this thread size, but at least for 2006 they did.

I also bought two 2006 Redline Proline chainwheels. These actually look like the old, original Flight chainwheels. In their catalog and on the actual package it says "19mm" hole. Which is 3/4" inch. I take the chainwheel out of the package and notice the hole looks a little big. Which it is, it's 15/16". So now I have to use that little adapter bushing to use it instead of just sliding the chainwheel on for a nice clean fit. Now I know most people don't care about using an adapter bushing, but I like to have stuff the same size so it fits good and it looks cleaner. I can live with the adapter bushing but my point is, if your catalog and the "actual" package say that it's a certain size, then it should be that size.

Last but not least. Before I even find out about the crank arm/spindle fit and the chainwheel hole, I notice there is no instructions at all for the cranks. I call Redline and they say they no longer include instructions with the Flight cranks. I ask why they don't include instuctions when for 20+ years they have and Profile includes instructions with their cranks and their reply is "because we don't, do you need anything else?" Then the guy goes on to say that if I don't know how to put the cranks on without instructions I shouldn't even think of working on a bike and I should take it to a bike shop. I tell him that I shouldn't have to go to a bike shop and he says "that's your problem".

Now I do know how to put the Flights together from my old set and I have set of Profiles too. But my point is, what if I didn't? What if I was young kid that just bought these and had no idea? Now I know not every bike part comes with instructions or needs it. But if you give instructions out for 20+ years and Profile still does, obviously there's a reason. Plus I like to have any and all original paperwork for stuff so 20 years from now it might help someone out.

So between the bad customer service and the bad quality and bad fitting cranks, I think I'm done buying any new Redline products. My next cranks are gonna be Profiles.

Sorry about my long rant and bi*** fest but I just want other people to know what I encountered with my two sets of Flight II's. And to let you know that your not the only one with a quality/fit issue.

Brian

[ August 20, 2006, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: RACEINC43 ]

Nuff said. It is as I suspected. I will ebay these and buy some Profiles. Done deal. I don't need the headache. Brian thank you very much for the insights. I liked the Redlines for the nostalgia but... nostalgia has limits.

That's exactly why I bought these. For the nostalgia and when I was kid I always wanted Flights for my bike. Back then Flights were "the" crank to have. I bought the Flights, old school look chainwheel, and some of the retro crank arm stickers so they would look like the cranks I wanted so bad back in the day. Back when I was kid I had three Redlines. An MX-II, a PL-20, and for my freestyling a RL 20-II. In fact I'm restoring an MX-II right now to replicate the one I had as a kid (that was my first good quality bmx bike that I got from my cousin). So I am and always will be a huge Redline fan, but more so when Linn Kastan owned Redline and that time period. Next to Race Inc., Redline was my favorite bike/company growing up. That's why I bought these Flights to go on my two 26" retro Race Inc./FM Flyer frames. I wanted all brand new parts from today but with the old school look and vibe. Believe me, I wish these cranks went together with no problems and issues, because they are the cranks I want to use, but the fit/quality problems are ridiculous. I know every so often someone might get a bad part, but I think these problems are a little more common than once in awhile. And I know some of my gripes like the adapter bushing and the idiot in customer service are no big deal to some people, and I understand that. But the main thing of the cranks not even going together and the machining and finish quality being poor is inexcusable. And I could make the cranks work and fit by doing alot of grinding/deburring/filing and getting taps to chase the threads, but I shouldn't have to do that. These should be ready to rock straight out of the box.

Brian

[ August 20, 2006, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: RACEINC43 ]

Brian, thanks again for the info. What do you think of this bolt? Looks like something from the hardware store. Is there a OEM bolt that exists for this? This bolt misses rubbing on the BB by less than a mm.

haha looks just like the one in my ody black widow cranks that is now in there after the arm stripped. yeah if these are oldschool flights check the thread about 2 or 3 posts down about 401 hardware is here or something along those lines, if there newschool check out your local shop, if something else i'm not sure, yeah theres a reason they normaly use cap head allen bollts, reminds me but i got to look into getting mine sorted out, repair job whoever did it put a smaller than normal bolt in it although it does look about that size. anyway just my 2 cents

they are new school Flights, double pinch, probably as new as 2002+

yeah just check your local shop or one of the current online mailorders. danscomp or albes maybe eve alans they seem to have a mix, anyway good luck.

Did you buy them used or something? With the problems you are talking about and not having the correct bolt for the chainwheel.... Maybe the person you got them from pieced them together.

Thanks guys. I'll look around. Slayer, yes they could be pieced together. Bully, thanks for the mail order sites, I didn't know about Albes. Thanks.

Hey there Nic. You need to get a buttonhead screw. Take that sprocket bolt you have and go to a hardware store or a bolt/screw supply store(look in the yellow pages) and have them match the thread size but get one with a buttonhead. The factory Redline sprocket bolts are buttonheads. They have a wider base so you don't need a washer and a shorter head height for clearance.

The top pic is the factory Redline 2006 sprocket bolt. It's a buttonhead slightly modified with a dished cut around the head. The bottom pic is arms with the spindle bolts, but look at the bottom crank arm spindle bolt. That's a normal looking buttonhead screw, that's what you want. You can get black-oxide, chrome plated, or stainless steel screws/finishes. You might have to hunt around for chrome or stainless though.

My 2006 Flights have a 10mm dia. x 1.5 pitch x 16mm long thread for the sprocket bolt. Your crank sprocket bolt thread MAY be different or even US threads. I don't know what year Redline switched to Metric threads and they may have even switched around the Metric thread sizes between years. If the bolt you have now threads in and tightens up, just match the threads with a new buttonhead.You could even get some screws online, but you need to know the thread size before you order.Hope this helps.

Brian





[ August 29, 2006, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: RACEINC43 ]

Thanks Brian, very helpful. What kind of BB is that? Very nice red ano, yes? Yowza, I want some...

Hey Nic, the bottom bracket is a Profile. I bought a Profile Hop-up kit with the bearing, cups, and cone washers. Then I machined down the Profile cone washers to match the thickness of the factory Redline cone washers so everything was the same. You can use the stock Profile cone washers without machining them, BUT......your crank arms won't be biting and clamping on the spindle as much. The arms will be hanging out in the open so to say a little more than normal. If you do a lot of heavy jumping or thrashing I'd probably want more arm on the spindle. Danscomp still sells the Profile Hop-up kit in red, blue, gold, silver, and black for $36.99 I believe. Also, my Flights are 2006 and I checked all the measurements to make sure they would work with the Profile stuff. The older Flights that had an undersize 3/4 spindle won't work that well. The spindle is too sloppy in the Profile bearings.

P.S. As far as the silver machined finish showing, I took a red magic marker and ran it over the silver and the red matched perfect. It actually looked annodized. I know.........that sounds sort of chessy, but it looks good and you can't tell. I'll take some pics when I get a chance to show you.

Brian





[ August 29, 2006, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: RACEINC43 ]

What happened to the flight cranks I am getting back into bikes and I am hearing horror stories about the greatest cranks ever man they must have hit the crapper.I have my last set I bought in 88 but I want a new set where is a good place to get them with all the goodies.I have a couple mid sets of profile/gt cranks but I want a set of flights can you get titanium parts spindle/bolts like the profile really would like some good info.pm or email me please Jon Simerly BADINT1@AOL.COM THANKS

Is there such a thing as a Flight crank arm tool? Installs and removes the arms from the spindle? I see the profile variety out there, will that work?

Like THIS ONE I suppose.....

no redline tool. if the crankset is up to par, the arms "should" go on/off by hand..."should".