Additional note on LPS 3. The little red nozzle tube works great for squirting it into the holes. Gravity works great for spreading it around inside there.
However, plan on shooting that little red nozzle into the tubing a few times . It is just the way it is. Be prepared to have to go fishing for it to get it back out. You can watch the nozzle departing from the can, and you can see it disappearing into the hole, and you can watch the "Now" unrestricted nozzle spraying the mist all over everything suddenly, but you can't let go of the trigger quick enough to stop it from happening....lol
The red nozzle actually does this to you on it's way in....... :P
Thank you Ted I am going to hardware store this morning and running out of time only 54 days before Rockford and 4 bikes to finish......I love the pressure.Thanks again for the thread,I will keep you posted on the out come with pics.
Hello Fellow Rust Removal Folks.
I have edited a document of this topic.
Anyone who wants the document please email Me.
BillRWilliamsiiiaol.com
Now My Question....
I have a Cruiser Frame that is Chrome.
It is too big for a Bathtub or sink.
Can I insert it into a plastic Tub one section at a time?
Or will this cause some sort of discoloration
at the water lines ?
Thanks,
Bill Williams BMX
I have edited a document of this topic.
Anyone who wants the document please email Me.
BillRWilliamsiiiaol.com
Now My Question....
I have a Cruiser Frame that is Chrome.
It is too big for a Bathtub or sink.
Can I insert it into a plastic Tub one section at a time?
Or will this cause some sort of discoloration
at the water lines ?
Thanks,
Bill Williams BMX
The trick to doing half and half, is that the stuff above the water line, on the inside of the tubing, is going to want to rust up, or re rust. Flash rust.
I am not sure how that would all pan out.
The outside is not going to have a problem with it. But the inside raw metal might be tricky.
Do the rear triangle, rust proof that, and then flip it over?
Fire me a copy of the edited document, I'd love to see it.
T
I am not sure how that would all pan out.
The outside is not going to have a problem with it. But the inside raw metal might be tricky.
Do the rear triangle, rust proof that, and then flip it over?
Fire me a copy of the edited document, I'd love to see it.
T
I've done all my frames one section at a time. As long as you at least overlap the sections, you can't tell the difference, especially if you do any polishing after.
Anybody else take any before and after pix?
I swear I'm doing the SE bars this weekend,keep your eyes peeled!
hey guys! i've found a on the shelf product that works like a champ!!! it's called deck and cleaner concentrate. it is made by ZEP commercial tm. comes in one gallon size covers up to 5,000 sq ft. of surface. it costs around $5-7 and can be found at home depot, lowes, and many other hardware stores including good ole walmart. i tried it on several different pieces of chrome plated parts. the results were remarkable! it completely dissolved 99% of all rust on it and was easily wiped off. it also can be reused about 10-20 times before giving it a boost of new concentrate or replacing it all together. here is the official website for this product (www.zepcommercial.com) for more info on this and other products made by them. thank for the awsome tip about this oxalic acid stuff i would have not known about it other wise i would be still using steel wool and a bench grinder with a wire wheel. great stuff! thanks again!
on trying to figure out what to look for at the shops i googled oxalic acid and came accross the wikipedia page on it web page
aparently "bar keepers friend" is made from this stuff
oddly enough it is also naturaly found in rhubarb, spinach and chocolate
there are links to some safety handling pages too
aparently "bar keepers friend" is made from this stuff
oddly enough it is also naturaly found in rhubarb, spinach and chocolate
there are links to some safety handling pages too
Interesting. The Zep products are one of them I listed in my very first post.
I was not aware that the Zep products are sold OTC. The ones I am familiar with are industrial, and thus hard to get a hold of for the average guy. Zep also makes an industrial toilet bowl cleaner that works fabulous due to the Oxalic acid. But that was the reason for the thread in the first place, to show that the pure chemical Oxalic Acid is the simple ticket.
If they have a deck cleaner that uses the Oxalic acid OTC, then that is great! Is it clearly labled as such on the Deck Cleaner?
Funny how comercialized the stuff has become. So much so, that it is now hard to find in the pure form, as the companies want you to buy it diluted and packaged, with a company logo on it.
Obtain it as you can find it. It would be interesting to research how concentrated that it is in the Zep products.
However, keep in mind, It is just as the Anodizing removal techniques which I have posted here. Pure Sodium Hydroxide, or Caustic Solution, or Lye, is the active ingredient that removes it. Though it may be found in many OTC products, I much prefer the pure 100 percent undiluted crystal form, leaving me in control of dilution ratio, and the optimum storage life.
Great info none the less, thanks RID!
I was not aware that the Zep products are sold OTC. The ones I am familiar with are industrial, and thus hard to get a hold of for the average guy. Zep also makes an industrial toilet bowl cleaner that works fabulous due to the Oxalic acid. But that was the reason for the thread in the first place, to show that the pure chemical Oxalic Acid is the simple ticket.
If they have a deck cleaner that uses the Oxalic acid OTC, then that is great! Is it clearly labled as such on the Deck Cleaner?
Funny how comercialized the stuff has become. So much so, that it is now hard to find in the pure form, as the companies want you to buy it diluted and packaged, with a company logo on it.
Obtain it as you can find it. It would be interesting to research how concentrated that it is in the Zep products.
However, keep in mind, It is just as the Anodizing removal techniques which I have posted here. Pure Sodium Hydroxide, or Caustic Solution, or Lye, is the active ingredient that removes it. Though it may be found in many OTC products, I much prefer the pure 100 percent undiluted crystal form, leaving me in control of dilution ratio, and the optimum storage life.
Great info none the less, thanks RID!
jusr a little info, search oxalic acid on ebay, can buy it in different size pacakges there
I have a frame and fork in the wood bleach souloution
right now. They've been in since Friday.
I still see surface rust on both.
Is there a danger of removing the chrome it'self if I leave
them in too long ?
Or is my soloution too weak and I need to add more ?
Also, I purchased the zep acidic Toilet bowl cleaner.
It didn't notice until I Had it home that It says
not to use on Chrome. What's the deal there ?
Thanks,
Bill Williams
right now. They've been in since Friday.
I still see surface rust on both.
Is there a danger of removing the chrome it'self if I leave
them in too long ?
Or is my soloution too weak and I need to add more ?
Also, I purchased the zep acidic Toilet bowl cleaner.
It didn't notice until I Had it home that It says
not to use on Chrome. What's the deal there ?
Thanks,
Bill Williams
Add more crystals Bill. Keep brushing the loose stuff off every few hours or so. But you should see some mild bubling action going on in there. Don't be stingy with it, but overkill is not needed either.
Has the rust changed color to pale yellow yet? Have you brushed it off a few times? It will sit there until you wipe it off.
The Zep Toilet bowl cleaner is one of them that I haven't fully researched yet. We use it for tool and die stuff, because it works fast on parts that come out of the EDM machines. I have used it plenty, but as I said in the original post, for restoring chrome, it pales in comparision to pure Oxalic acid mixture.
That statement on the bottle of Zep is a classic example as to why I like to use the pure crystals, and why I offered it up for everyone. When you buy a premixed product, it contains other things that you may not want in the mixture. Hence the warning on the bottle of the toilet bowl cleaner.
Another interesting thing I learned by reading that link. It bonds to Calcium. So if your water is very hard, some of it will be used up by the calcium in the water! So I guess distilled or RO water would be optimum!
But that just means you need to add a bit more crystals.
Has the rust changed color to pale yellow yet? Have you brushed it off a few times? It will sit there until you wipe it off.
The Zep Toilet bowl cleaner is one of them that I haven't fully researched yet. We use it for tool and die stuff, because it works fast on parts that come out of the EDM machines. I have used it plenty, but as I said in the original post, for restoring chrome, it pales in comparision to pure Oxalic acid mixture.
That statement on the bottle of Zep is a classic example as to why I like to use the pure crystals, and why I offered it up for everyone. When you buy a premixed product, it contains other things that you may not want in the mixture. Hence the warning on the bottle of the toilet bowl cleaner.
Another interesting thing I learned by reading that link. It bonds to Calcium. So if your water is very hard, some of it will be used up by the calcium in the water! So I guess distilled or RO water would be optimum!
But that just means you need to add a bit more crystals.
This seems like a good site to get the pure form. You have to buy six pounds but it still seems like a good deal. http://www.chemistrystore.com/oxalic_acid.htm
Wow, nice find DB!
14 bucks for 7 pounds of the stuff!....You can fill a bath tub to the top with that much!......
Very nice find! I snatched that link to favorites!....
T
14 bucks for 7 pounds of the stuff!....You can fill a bath tub to the top with that much!......
Very nice find! I snatched that link to favorites!....
T
Sweet! I'm in NC right now, and will be in SC this afternoon-I'm going to swing by & pick up a pail or two (did ya check how much shipping was?!).
I've found a place over here in the UK that sells tubs of the cyrstals, just need to select some test parts.
Thanks Ted, this is just the job to undertake prior to deciding on an expensive re-chrome!
Paul
Thanks Ted, this is just the job to undertake prior to deciding on an expensive re-chrome!
Paul
for our australian readers i think i have found a source of oxalic acid
after going to bunnings(local hardware chain) and then several paint shops later i found it in a Bristol decorator centre
it comes in 250g, 500g and 1kg. i grabed a 1kg for $23.95
i hope this make it easier for some aussie riders/ restorers looking for this stuff
i'm going to try using the bath tub about 5" or 6" deep
after going to bunnings(local hardware chain) and then several paint shops later i found it in a Bristol decorator centre
it comes in 250g, 500g and 1kg. i grabed a 1kg for $23.95
i hope this make it easier for some aussie riders/ restorers looking for this stuff
i'm going to try using the bath tub about 5" or 6" deep
quote:FYI..Main ingredient in Bar Keepers Friend is Oxalic Acid. I don't know what the percentage is though.
Sounds like a good product. I still prefer a $1.50 can of "Bar Keepers Friend" and 00 Steel wool. Works like a charm for me.
I need something I can just spray on though as my wife would kill me if I used the tub for this.
Any suggestions?
I have a frame that is pretty rusted, really bad in some spots.
Any suggestions?
I have a frame that is pretty rusted, really bad in some spots.
rcrscott-go to Target and buy a $10 plastic bin.
Go to a discount center and buy a kids plastic swimming pool works like a champ and tis is the season for sales on kids outdoor play equipment.Yes I'm a dad.They run about 10.00 and you can fit a full size cruiser frame in it all in one shot.Plus side your wife will love you for not using the tub.LOL
Ted thanks for this post !!I will get pics soon
Ted thanks for this post !!I will get pics soon
Cool....
You never know! You might be a hero by using the tub to do it in!?!?!?!?!
quote:Hmmm, I am actually thinking about using it to get the rust stains out of the bottom of the fiberglass tub/shower stall!
my wife would kill me if I used the tub for this.
You never know! You might be a hero by using the tub to do it in!?!?!?!?!
DUH!! I didn't even think about just buying a plastic tub. Thanks for the reality slap upside the head. LOL
Obviously this mix isn't to caustic for the plastic then. Cool, maybe theres a chance for this frame yet!
Thanks
Obviously this mix isn't to caustic for the plastic then. Cool, maybe theres a chance for this frame yet!
Thanks
I've had a batch mixed up and sitting in the plastic bin for about three weeks now. It takes about 20 gallons to fill the bin up enough to do 1/2 a 20" frame at a time, so it won't hurt the plastic one bit. The Home Depo version comes in a plastic container, so I figured that would be safe. The advantage of using the bin over a tub or pool is that you can just snap the lid on when you are done and you don't have to worry about any animals or kids getting into it thinking it's just plain water.
edit
[ May 13, 2006, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: ozzybmx ]
[ May 13, 2006, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: ozzybmx ]
Aussie guys, I just bought 1 ltr of straight Oxalic acid for $13 at Bunnings. In the paint section. They had about 4 to choose from.
i checked at bunnings and all they had was 10% solutions ie.100g/1L or less
i also founs some aluminum mag cleaner that contained oxalic salts?? i wonder if that might work it's in a spray bottle but again it's been cut down
i did find in a bristol decorator centre, pure crystal oxalic acid. 1kg for $24
but i looked in another bristol and they didn't have it if anyone is curious i got it from the doveton, victoria bristol decorator centre
the other that didn't have it was in narre warren
probably call around your local paint shops and see
i also founs some aluminum mag cleaner that contained oxalic salts?? i wonder if that might work it's in a spray bottle but again it's been cut down
i did find in a bristol decorator centre, pure crystal oxalic acid. 1kg for $24
but i looked in another bristol and they didn't have it if anyone is curious i got it from the doveton, victoria bristol decorator centre
the other that didn't have it was in narre warren
probably call around your local paint shops and see
I'm thinking of going with the plastic kiddie pool.
I don't have a private yard or garage on my building.
But I do have a private roof.
Only I have access. If I were to dump out the
Oxylic acid after I'm finished with it, Would I have to worry
about it eating through my roof ?
I would dump it twards the Rain Gutters and let it drain out
Like rain water. Any danger in doing that ?
There would be no other way to get rid of the acid / water.
Thanks,
Bill Williams
I don't have a private yard or garage on my building.
But I do have a private roof.
Only I have access. If I were to dump out the
Oxylic acid after I'm finished with it, Would I have to worry
about it eating through my roof ?
I would dump it twards the Rain Gutters and let it drain out
Like rain water. Any danger in doing that ?
There would be no other way to get rid of the acid / water.
Thanks,
Bill Williams
Looked at Bunning didn't have it. Only 10%. The bloke looked at like I was a terrorist when I asked for something stronger.
mattblack call around a few local paint shops. you should find one that stocks it
i found a site that has links/ phone numbers for several suppliers in australia. there is one there that has the same ph.# but different name as the brand that i bought
web page
web page
Thanks there's a place only 5 mins away.
Thank again
Thank again
Let's see more after pics!!!
ok here's my first attempt at acid dipping a frame
i found what i think is a great container for this
it's about 2.5 ft tall and 12.5 in across at the opening and it's enough to half and half a frame or drop in a set of bars
it also has a lid that clamps on so it can be on it's side and not leak (handy to be transported)
i didn't get any before pics (doh!) but i got a few after
these bars were almost solid brown with rust (velocidad may have some pics)
they cleaned up great! except for under the top tube of the bars
here's the frame before and after
the frame did have a few let downs though i found some severe wear marks from a gyro cable and the rust ate through the chrome around the bb
i found what i think is a great container for this
it's about 2.5 ft tall and 12.5 in across at the opening and it's enough to half and half a frame or drop in a set of bars
it also has a lid that clamps on so it can be on it's side and not leak (handy to be transported)
i didn't get any before pics (doh!) but i got a few after
these bars were almost solid brown with rust (velocidad may have some pics)
they cleaned up great! except for under the top tube of the bars
here's the frame before and after
the frame did have a few let downs though i found some severe wear marks from a gyro cable and the rust ate through the chrome around the bb
Polish, and a Dremel, and a Mouse Polisher, will make a huge difference at this point in your project Grub!
Into phase 2! Polish, polish, polish. ....
Looks better than the "Dipped in cocoa powder look" eh?
Into phase 2! Polish, polish, polish. ....
Looks better than the "Dipped in cocoa powder look" eh?
i couldnt find it at home depot, and i cant find it at the following retail websites:
www.homedepot.com
www.target.com
www.kmart.com
also, what dept would it be in?
www.homedepot.com
www.target.com
www.kmart.com
also, what dept would it be in?
looking good grub...
so what was the paint polishing technique anyways?
my paint is scraped off in some places and the metal is showing will it eat the paint off cause in that first pic it looked like it took off the paint in the back of the frame
It removes rust, not paint.
I have a question about this method, what type of tape would be best to cover the decals with before soaking the frame? I have a 1982 mongoose frame thats chrome and covered in rust that id like to try this on, but I want to try to keep the decals intact if possible.
Decals, is on page 4.
I had an `81 Supergoose that I dipped and it did not hurt the decals at all. I have dipped looptails as well and it did not hurt them either. I would say the odds are pretty good that yours will be OK. Oxalic Acid does however remove the gold from a Mongoose gold stem, so I wouldn't advise that. It will also give Ashtabula parts a greenish tint.
I've just tried this method on some old handlebars and it took the rust off without touching the stickers.
The only trouble I have now is that where the rust was I am now left with a dull dark stain where the shiny chrome should be.
I'm guessing I need to get them rechromed now to fill in the pit marks?
The seat post I did has also come up a treat - thanks a lot for the tip.
The only trouble I have now is that where the rust was I am now left with a dull dark stain where the shiny chrome should be.
I'm guessing I need to get them rechromed now to fill in the pit marks?
The seat post I did has also come up a treat - thanks a lot for the tip.
I've had a Redline f&f soaking since friday and i just took them out now and it worked awesome! Hopefully I be able to take some pics tomorrow.
Anyway, the spots that were heavily rusted now have that blackish stain like in Grubs pics.
I used some polish and my dremel and its not coming off at all.
Any tips to removing these stains?
Thanks
Anyway, the spots that were heavily rusted now have that blackish stain like in Grubs pics.
I used some polish and my dremel and its not coming off at all.
Any tips to removing these stains?
Thanks
I am in severe doubt about getting a seat that I purchased in time for rockford, so I am bringing a spare to life.
This hardware was soaked a long time ago, and has been sitting around.
The black is the raw metal, as shown in the above pic of the unpolished areas. (there is NO chrome on these clamp parts!) In this case, regular old steel. Polishing can bring a great shine to it, but it will have no corrosion protection what so ever. But it will get this one to Rockford.
4130 Chrome-moly has Chromium in it (4140 has more), therefore it polishes up much nicer than plain steel, and has much better corrosion resistance when polished.
Unfortunately, you can't bring back lost chrome. However, it can be made to be 100 times more presentable.
Tip 1......I use Met-All paste polish for stainless and Aluminum. Works great on steel and chromo too. A mouse sander/polisher with the sanding tip installed is priceless using foam, and special polishing pads. A dremel with 1, 1 1/2 , and 2 inch wheels is priceless as well.
One of the tricks with this paste polish is to use VERY SLOW dremel speeds. Let the paste stay paste for as long as possible. High speed will dry it up, and fling it off very fast. Let it work as long as possible.
If you work the black areas carefully you can get a great shine from unplated spots. Small pits are really tough to blend, because the chrome plating is higher than the pit, so you can't really get in there, and the black often gets blacker as it just holds the dirty polish. But, any raised surface of the chrome around the pit will be smoothed and "feather edged" when polishing, so, that in itself makes a huge improvement.
Alcohol takes Met-All polish right off (and out of pits). A coating of good car wax afterwards helps too.
[ June 08, 2006, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]
This hardware was soaked a long time ago, and has been sitting around.
The black is the raw metal, as shown in the above pic of the unpolished areas. (there is NO chrome on these clamp parts!) In this case, regular old steel. Polishing can bring a great shine to it, but it will have no corrosion protection what so ever. But it will get this one to Rockford.
4130 Chrome-moly has Chromium in it (4140 has more), therefore it polishes up much nicer than plain steel, and has much better corrosion resistance when polished.
Unfortunately, you can't bring back lost chrome. However, it can be made to be 100 times more presentable.
Tip 1......I use Met-All paste polish for stainless and Aluminum. Works great on steel and chromo too. A mouse sander/polisher with the sanding tip installed is priceless using foam, and special polishing pads. A dremel with 1, 1 1/2 , and 2 inch wheels is priceless as well.
One of the tricks with this paste polish is to use VERY SLOW dremel speeds. Let the paste stay paste for as long as possible. High speed will dry it up, and fling it off very fast. Let it work as long as possible.
If you work the black areas carefully you can get a great shine from unplated spots. Small pits are really tough to blend, because the chrome plating is higher than the pit, so you can't really get in there, and the black often gets blacker as it just holds the dirty polish. But, any raised surface of the chrome around the pit will be smoothed and "feather edged" when polishing, so, that in itself makes a huge improvement.
Alcohol takes Met-All polish right off (and out of pits). A coating of good car wax afterwards helps too.
[ June 08, 2006, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]
I did an 87 Sport f/f, set of forklifter bars, set of kneesavers and one piece cranks over the weekend. Pics tonight.
I done these 30 year old steel 3 piece cranks over the weekend. I can tell you the rust around the inside of the spider was pretty bad. I haven't polished these up yet either. Straight out of the tub!
I'm pretty stoked I can tell you. These are going on my euro BB monoshock.
[ June 13, 2006, 04:30 AM: Message edited by: COASTVL ]
I'm pretty stoked I can tell you. These are going on my euro BB monoshock.
[ June 13, 2006, 04:30 AM: Message edited by: COASTVL ]
Here is everything soaking in the tub. You should have seen the gunk that came out of the inside of the two sets of handlebars after soaking for a day. The rust is gone but chrome on the bars is shot. Looks like somebody sandblasted both sets before painting. oh well...
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