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DAN
I know this has been gone over before so if somebody could point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it. Looking to id my gaggle of geese. Need the breakdown on identifying by serial number.Thanks for the help. DAN
n2o
I'd never date a mongoose. I've dated a few snakes in the grass though!
Eddie
Yes, I also need Mongoose ser. # info. Everything I have read doesn't add up to what i'm working on. My Goose has the serial numer underneath the frame on the square piece behind the bottom bracket. It's not ON the bb like I have read that they usually are.If anyone can help - here's the #
K1096818
Any help would be great.
kilo
eddie:

late-81, after the dropout and rear triangle design change.

--mike.
Randy
Dan,

Dating the original double gusset Mongoose works something like this...

Example, C49 236578

The first 3 digits are the date code.

C = Chatsworth
4 = Month, 4 would be April, the 4th month
9 = the last digit in the year manufactured, 1979

The rest is the sequential production number. If theres a T before the C you have a Team Mongoose or Supergoose, both are 100% chromoly. All others are tri-moly. This formula works until 1981.

Later frames with the step-down drop outs and eventualy no drop outs like Eddie's are dated with the second digit.

His 1 = 1981

Predating all of these are some '75 & '76 frames that will have hand punched sequentail numbers without any 3 digit date code.

Two very early frames in my collection are 13054 and 10378 which I believe is the oldest goose known.
kilo
hey bill, i have record of a number 10376, but i dont remember from where. just know that it exists somewhere.

i have figured a formula to date early frames without date codes:
based on an average of 1700 frames per month, (through the end of 76 that is, goes way up after that) you should be able to divide the production number by 1700, and get an approximate month of production. i have verified this formula with known codes from later-76 frames, and this method works.
your 13054 would be jan-76, while your 10378 should be dec-75.

lmk what you think....

--mike.
Randy
Are you mistaking me for Bill?

Bill is MUCH larger than me
kilo
yup, i meant you randy, sorry bout that, my bad, lol. no i just feel so stupid, lol.

anyways, what do you think? does the formula work?

--mike.
Randy
? Sounds good to me.

Where did the 1700 come from? I'm not to big on speculating, knowing what month they came out is meaningless to me.

I know they're older than dirt, thats why I like them.

[ May 24, 2004, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Randy ]
kilo
the 1700 is the only average i could come up with per month based on the 40 or so numbers from yours till late 77 that i have written down. the 1700 is actually pretty good for an average till around dec-jan of 76-77, then that average seems to climb to around 2500-2800 per month by the end of 78. i keep adding to the list when i find more numbers, so i can get a better extrapilation based on a larger quantity of archived numbers. the list does grow, but i sometimes forget and have to go back several days to pick it up again, lol.

i also just picked up a badly damaged blue max frameset from 82, the 4th i've had from 82-83. i've only had 1 pre-82. based on this (and similar with other makes of bmx products' bikes) my averages are across the entire line of bikes they put out. i'm sure these averages would go down considerably if they got broke up into individual makes/models, i just dont have enough information to do that yet.

i also believe that all the bmx products's lines bb shells came from the same stock, as i have yet to find the same numbers on different makes.

anyways, enjoy. i will try to post more when i have more.

--mike.
Bill
quote:
i also believe that all the bmx products's lines bb shells came from the same stock, as i have yet to find the same numbers on different makes.
We could have told you that...

BMX Products built over a half million frames by the early 1980s. There is an image from an old BMXA that shows boxes and boxes of bottom bracket shells. These are stamped with serial numbers before being weleded to a frame. That is why you see cross brand similarities. Why
Brick
So what does the 'M3' on my frame number mean? The full serial is M3-K7923, what year is this?

Thanks,

Bill.
Bill
1983. Not sure what the M stands for but the 3 is the year..
Aggrodad
here's mine

CK9 251380

so Chatsworth 1979?, but what's the K?

Also it has an original looking white motomag sticker on the downtube, but when I got the bike it had blue ACS zytel mags. Did they ever come with ACS mags, or are they from a previous owner?
Bill
K = November

Motomag IIs or wire wheels would have been original equipment. Mongoose didn't use any ACS stuff so it was added later.
Bob_Acid
i had a nickel goose in the early 80's and the number was CLO 371117
Bill
December 1980.

C Chatsworth
L December
0 1980

371117th frame since the beginning (We don't know if they started numbering at 001, 101 or 1001 back in 1975)

[ May 27, 2004, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Bill Curtin ]
Astrodamus
quote:
you should be able to divide the production number by 1700, and get an approximate month of production. i have verified this formula with known codes from later-76 frames, and this method works.
your 13054 would be jan-76, while your 10378 should be dec-75.

^This, seems to conflict with this information:

quote:
There is an image from an old BMXA that shows boxes and boxes of bottom bracket shells. These are stamped with serial numbers before being weleded to a frame.
I'm not sure I'll be able to effectively express my thoughts on why your formula doesn't compute, but I'll try my best..

First, when you say this..
quote:
have verified this formula with known codes from later-76 frames, and this method works.
What do you mean by "known codes" ??

Second, I'm not sure you can definitively say that Bike "A" which contains BB Shell # 10378 was assembled before Bike "B" which contains BB Shell # 13054.

Let's say for instance that in Dec 75, the welder reached in the box and grabbed BB Shell # 13054 and assembled what we refer to as the later bike (Bike "B"), and then the very next month, he or a co-worker, reaches in and grabs BB Shell #10378 and assembles Bike "A".
Which bike is older? Bike B (13054) is the older bike, even though it has a "later" serial number than Bike A (10378).
If your formula attempts to assign a specific date based on sequencial numbering, then I think it might be unreliable because of the way the BB Shells were manufactured and pre-numbered BEFORE the bikes were assembled. (but very commendable and well thought out on your part).

However, if they didn't use the "Big Batch o' shells" technique until they began using the "C" and "TC" designators, then maybe your method has merit.
But this is what you have to find out... In fact, Bill might know the answer to this question, or he may be able to ask his contact that he queried last time when we had a question that only someone who manufactured them would know.

At the end of the day, if it can't be truly determined which bike is older, then it's not very helpful to speculate with stuff like "Well this one could have been built earlier, but with an older BB Shell.." so I think we should assume a bigger number = newer bike/ smaller number = older bike.
So while it may be helpful to use this default numbering concept to decide which bike we consider to be older, I'm not sure it's helpful to attempt to assign a specific month.
Motor City Mongoose
For what it's worth, two of my earliest VIN's are CE6 18888 for a `76 nickel "shorty" and T CF9 179021 for a `79 blue Team `Goose.
Bill
quote:
so I think we should assume a bigger number = newer bike/ smaller number = older bike.
I know that you cannot break it down to the month accurately..

Mike Devitt summed it up this way with SE's attempt to serialize date coding on the dropouts....

quote:
We tried for a while at Paramount to serialize by year and month, and then a sequence of numbers depending on the volume of pieces and stuff. What would happen, and it would get out of sequence because your numbers—serial numbers—say for October of ’80, you would have said, PK8010 and then a sequence of numbers. But then you wouldn’t use them all up, but you’re not going to throw away the drop outs, so they go on to November, or they might to go on to December. It became a system that didn’t work, so to be honest with you, I really can’t define by—the thing I would have been able to do most easily at one time, up until even two years ago, would have been able to be pretty accurate generally—give or take 2 or 3 months
DAN
Thanks Randy for the breakdown. Here's the sn's for the geese that live in the back yard.

CC9 194301
CB9 137289
C 17605
CHO 312209
TCB 394515

I also have a chrome plated Goose that has no sn as well as a couple more in the garage. Stay tuned for more sn's.

DAN
Randy
quote:
TCB 394515
That musta been the King's personal ride.

Only Elvis fans will get that....
MoGas
I have a few too but I don"t know if you can help me out with the or not.
The gussetted Goose has CJ0 across the BB and about an inch below it it has 348542 then between these numbers there are numbers stamped in a different direction that read 51600.

I have an early Mongoose "All Terrain" mountain bike that has the BMX Products logo on the frame and the serial is M4-XXXX ( it is too dark out and that is the best I could do for tonight.

Then I have an all aluminum framed 24" BMX cruiser that has the Mongoose Bicycles logo on the head tube and a KNESIS sticker on the downtube Serial number KE5G18103 but I don't know what model it is. I got it at Play it again sports and it didn't have any other markings.

Any help or redirection is greatly appreciated.
Dave

Any help in
Astrodamus
heya MoGas, you in the military?

We used to use MoGas in Air Force vehicles.
MoGas
U.S. Navy.

I have an old Musclecar that I'm restoring and I'm also into going 4 wheeling with my truck and motorcycle riding (street and dirt) and my saying has always been "Give it a little mo' gas!! so when I was in the Navy it stuck for my call sign.
Astrodamus
he he.. that's cool..

I might be picked up by SAIC or Northrop-Grumman, they have both shown interest in me as a candidate for a Personnel position. They are both vying for the same contract, so if everything goes smooth, one of these two heavyweights will win the bid and I'll have a sweet job in Fla.

Wish me luck!
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