I'm just strippin down an old Hollywood that I have had for ages.
I was toying with the idea of getting some color matched powder made up to the correct pink (none of the standard RAL colors are quite there..), but I just re-read an old article on JJR's site Hollywood Review that seems to suggest that they were painted not powdered originally... Anyone know for sure ?..cause I can get the paint matched much cheaper....!
rock on..
Full Version: Was Hollywood Painted or Powdered ?
It was powder coated.
I've stripped my Hollywood and the paint didn't look like powder coat!
Very thin paint and easy to remove!
Very thin paint and easy to remove!
Yeah I noticed that too, almost see through in places (obviously very faded through UV, but even then). Pics of it are below...
Also, has anyone tried out the 'light pink' neon ( 49/30520) from Tiger Drylac by the way? - It looks closer to pictures of the original (and what I could see of the non faded coat on mine) than the RAL 3015 that I think most people opt for.
Also, has anyone tried out the 'light pink' neon ( 49/30520) from Tiger Drylac by the way? - It looks closer to pictures of the original (and what I could see of the non faded coat on mine) than the RAL 3015 that I think most people opt for.
To my knowledge, a frame of that age would NOT be powdercoated. And by the looks of frees' pictures- they are definety painted. Hey free' are you using aircraft stripper? Steve
I know for a fact, and i am 1000000% sure that all these frames were painted!! Powdercoating wasnt really in existance back in the early 80's. It was slightly used for industrial reasons, plus it is hard as hell to get powdercoating off of anything!! Example, if the frames were powdercoated, you would not be able to see serial number, and any kind of etchings in the frame...... So theres vintageBMX's powdercoating 101 lesson for the day!! PS..... if you do a resto.......... everybodys jumping on the bandwagon to powdercoat the frames and what-not............ heres the thing, powdercoating hides ALL CRACKS, REWELDS< and whatever else makes a frame crappy!! So be aware of these guys selling F/F's that are powdercoated!! 9 times outta 10, theres something wrong with them!!!
Aircraft Stripper? is that a trade name for something in the US?
The stuff they sell here is just regular paint stripper They don't list the ingredients, but
"frowns hard, thinking back 20 years to chem class..."
I would guess that it is a nitro-meth.... something or other as a the main ingredient.
Interesting what you say about the age of it... to be honest, knowing that makes my job a whole lot easier as getting wetpaint mixed to match is much much easier and cheaper...
I read somewhere though that the early Hollywoods were a lighter pink than the later ones.. although I've no way of dating it.. What I did just notice though is that the drop out geometry is slightly different on the Hollywood compared to the non sm. Pro Racer I have - I thought they were basically the same frame ?
All I need now is that NOS decal set....anyone??
Rock on..
The stuff they sell here is just regular paint stripper They don't list the ingredients, but
"frowns hard, thinking back 20 years to chem class..."
I would guess that it is a nitro-meth.... something or other as a the main ingredient.
Interesting what you say about the age of it... to be honest, knowing that makes my job a whole lot easier as getting wetpaint mixed to match is much much easier and cheaper...
I read somewhere though that the early Hollywoods were a lighter pink than the later ones.. although I've no way of dating it.. What I did just notice though is that the drop out geometry is slightly different on the Hollywood compared to the non sm. Pro Racer I have - I thought they were basically the same frame ?
All I need now is that NOS decal set....anyone??
Rock on..
Thanks for the info and warning Jeff...
I'll be painting this one the.. along with the TA I had penciled in to PC white..!
I'll be painting this one the.. along with the TA I had penciled in to PC white..!
Yeah, Aircraft stripper is just the name of the paint stripper. Good luck with the resto!!!
thanks, I'll post it as soon as its done.
rock on..
rock on..
Hey Freeflyer!!! ummmmmmmmm whats for dinner tonight??? pasta ala pink Hutch?? with a little bit of pink shredded wheat on the side!!!! LMAO!! jk!!
quote:Not true. I just powdered my '85 Skyway Streetbeat and can read the serial numbers perfectly on the BB.
Example, if the frames were powdercoated, you would not be able to see serial number, and any kind of etchings in the frame...... So theres vintageBMX's powdercoating 101 lesson for the day!!
I'll let you know next week about my GT serial numbers, but we shall see.
quote:
Thanks for the info and warning Jeff...
Powder coating was around LONG before Mr. Hutchins decided to paint that piece pink. In the 70's it was called Epoxy Coat or Epoxy Paint, thats powder coat fellas.
And any bozo that can't coat a frame and have the weld beads visable and serial number still readable should be smacked.
I have a 1976 Mongoose frame with original powder coat, weld beading and the s/n are crystal clear.
Hutch Sucks
I actually Klean stripped (KS-3) a set of "NOS" baby blue HUTCH Hollywood forks, revealing the exact same wrinkling effect as posted in freeflyer's pix. The paint came off like butter w/ little ease when wiped down. Chalk me up as another witness that HUTCH Hollywood's were indeed painted, not powdered.
HOLLYWOOD
(I was born in Hollywood, CA hence the username).
*HUTCH RULES!*
HOLLYWOOD
(I was born in Hollywood, CA hence the username).
*HUTCH RULES!*
quote:
To my knowledge, a frame of that age would NOT be powdercoated.
quote:
Powdercoating wasnt really in existance back in the early 80's.
quote:Where the hell did you guys get your info???
So theres vintageBMX's powdercoating 101 lesson for the day!!
I'll back Randy up for the smackdown.
Many manufacturers in the 70's were using powercoat. BMX Products used translucent powdercoat on their team bikes in 1978.
My 1975 Matthews was powdercoated and I could easliy see details in the frame.
I understand what you are saying!! BUT todays technology of powdercoating is 100 times different than that of the 70s' and 80s'. I know this because my relatives build street rods, and they do it on a daily basis for undercarriage componants, and whatnot. Todays powdercoating process is put on thicker, and baked at higher temperatures, compard to the 70's and 80's where they basically sprayed the material on, and threw it in an oven at 450 and hoped for the best!!
My powder coater must be old school. They fire @ 425 degrees. Are you saying modern coaters are curing hotter?
Occasionally I will see powder applied to thick, it has nothing to do with the materials or process, it's the user.
In many ways I equate powder coating to baking a cake....it's either good or lousy.
>Powder History 101<
Occasionally I will see powder applied to thick, it has nothing to do with the materials or process, it's the user.
In many ways I equate powder coating to baking a cake....it's either good or lousy.
>Powder History 101<
Jeff,
Its obvious you need an education in how powdercoat is applied.
http://www.prismpowderusa.com/process.htm
Prism Powder does the chassis frame assemblies for http://www.factoryfive.com/ as well as many custom motocycle and street rods. I don't think that a guy spending $30,000 on a car or bike wants an "industrial" finish....
Its obvious you need an education in how powdercoat is applied.
http://www.prismpowderusa.com/process.htm
quote:I have a frame that has a metallic three coat finish. It has knurling on the dropouts thaty can be seen through the finish as well as the serial number.
These oven are natural gas fired and use convection heat to cure the "powder coating" at a range of 375-400 degrees F for 15-25 minutes.
Prism Powder does the chassis frame assemblies for http://www.factoryfive.com/ as well as many custom motocycle and street rods. I don't think that a guy spending $30,000 on a car or bike wants an "industrial" finish....
actually Bill, i dont............. my relatives own Boyd Coddington Rods, and im pretty sure they know what they are doing since they pull out multi-million dollar rods all the time!! thanks for your response, but watch the toe stomping!!
Jimmy Stewart was a relative of mine. [true]
I know how to act. [false]
I know how to act. [false]
LOL Randy!!
quote:After seeing the way his crew works on the Discovery Channel, I'm not too sure about that.
im pretty sure they know what they are doing since they pull out multi-million dollar rods all the time!!
most of the employess that work for Boyd are Wyotech grads, so reguardless of the "show" they put in for the cameras, they are one hell of a crew to put ot such a remarkable product! And im not sayng that because im impartial either!
I just read Randy's link about he history of powder and it is stated:
Powder can be layed so thin that it can a mil to a 1/2 mil thick. It is the technique and skill of the techician that determines the thickness, not the product.
The cross linking of powder when it goes from a powder to where it bonds to steel starts at 350°F but if you go over 400°F, you will start to anneal aluminum and rearrange the molecule struture of steel.
Anything above 400°F will thermally degrade the coating and internally cook itself. It will degrade the gloss facter, waxing agents and flow agents. The durabilty at that point is gone and you might as well toss the job.
The melting zone of power starts at 180°F
It gels at 180°F to 350°F. 375°F is the magic number, this allows a cure time of 15 minutes.
Between 350°F and 375°F allows a safety zone of 25°F.
With the cost of electricity and fuel used for heating the ovens, the technology is moving towards powders that can cure at temps as low as 225°F.
No go ask you relatives at Boyd for a comeback...
[ March 24, 2004, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Bill Curtin ]
quote:
After a period of trial and error and real pioneering work between 1961 and 1962, .... Its stoving scheme was 30 minutes at 350°F.
quote:THis is what I know...
Todays powdercoating process is put on thicker, and baked at higher temperatures, compard to the 70's and 80's where they basically sprayed the material on, and threw it in an oven at 450 and hoped for the best!!
Powder can be layed so thin that it can a mil to a 1/2 mil thick. It is the technique and skill of the techician that determines the thickness, not the product.
The cross linking of powder when it goes from a powder to where it bonds to steel starts at 350°F but if you go over 400°F, you will start to anneal aluminum and rearrange the molecule struture of steel.
Anything above 400°F will thermally degrade the coating and internally cook itself. It will degrade the gloss facter, waxing agents and flow agents. The durabilty at that point is gone and you might as well toss the job.
The melting zone of power starts at 180°F
It gels at 180°F to 350°F. 375°F is the magic number, this allows a cure time of 15 minutes.
Between 350°F and 375°F allows a safety zone of 25°F.
With the cost of electricity and fuel used for heating the ovens, the technology is moving towards powders that can cure at temps as low as 225°F.
No go ask you relatives at Boyd for a comeback...
[ March 24, 2004, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Bill Curtin ]
Let's all play nice.
I stripped my old TA with BIX stripper and it looked exactly like the pics of the pink Hollywood. I didn't know powder could be removed with any paint stripper, nor do I remember what kind of finish the TA had, but it did come off very easy. It was pristine, raw 4130 underneath. So either the finish was paint or the powder was easily removed with BIX. I received the frame from the original owner in 1990 with its original finish, albeit a little worse for the wear.
I stripped my old TA with BIX stripper and it looked exactly like the pics of the pink Hollywood. I didn't know powder could be removed with any paint stripper, nor do I remember what kind of finish the TA had, but it did come off very easy. It was pristine, raw 4130 underneath. So either the finish was paint or the powder was easily removed with BIX. I received the frame from the original owner in 1990 with its original finish, albeit a little worse for the wear.
Blah, Blah, Blah, im gonna tend to lean torward a person who has been in business for over 35 years, and has been quite successful in his mission to build the worlds most renouned, most sought after custom cars the roads will ever see. Im not saying you are wrong, and im not saying your right, and vise-versa torward me. My response was a reply to help a fellow restorer, and wasnt meant to question anyones integrity as to knowledge of what they know.
What bugs me is you telling people that powder is no good and it hides damage on frames. This is pure BS.
I am not saying you are wrong from what you heard but the info you were given is wrong.
Redline, GT, Mongoose, among many others have been powdercoating their frames since the beginning of the sport.."Almost" every single company back in the day and just about everyone today uses powdercoat in the BMX industry.
I never saw a Redline that I could't read a serial number ort a Mongoose for that matter.
When people say things on this board that are not historically correct and it changes another persons opinion, its wrong. A myth becomes fact if its told to enough people...
I am not saying you are wrong from what you heard but the info you were given is wrong.
Redline, GT, Mongoose, among many others have been powdercoating their frames since the beginning of the sport.."Almost" every single company back in the day and just about everyone today uses powdercoat in the BMX industry.
I never saw a Redline that I could't read a serial number ort a Mongoose for that matter.
When people say things on this board that are not historically correct and it changes another persons opinion, its wrong. A myth becomes fact if its told to enough people...
quote:I agree with Bill, to say powdercoating wasnt really in existance in the early 80s is just irresponsible, especially when you are a million percent sure.
I know for a fact, and i am 1000000% sure that all these frames were painted!! Powdercoating wasnt really in existance back in the early 80's
wasnt in existance in most cases............MEANING not all companys used it, it was used for industrial reasons mostly!!! Can we beat this dead horse anymore!!!!!!
AND secondly!! THE MAIN TOPIC WAS "HUTCH" NOT ANY OTHER COMPANY THAT SOMEONE RAN OFF THE BANDWAGON WITH!!
And to drive a point home further, powdercoating is very unforgiving if the metal is in rough/degraded shape as it won't hide faults.
I was told you can't use "filler" on frames to cover dents/dings/etc... because the ovens to treat the powder will only melt the filler and bringing you back to square one. Truth?
Back to the Hutch topic, I would suggest acquiring a NOS part or unfaded paint sample to match the pink. Early Hutch Pink is much different from later Hutch Pink, think of a fleshy salmon color compared to a faded pink.
I was told you can't use "filler" on frames to cover dents/dings/etc... because the ovens to treat the powder will only melt the filler and bringing you back to square one. Truth?
Back to the Hutch topic, I would suggest acquiring a NOS part or unfaded paint sample to match the pink. Early Hutch Pink is much different from later Hutch Pink, think of a fleshy salmon color compared to a faded pink.
We'll beat this dead horse until it rots...
Everytime you post, you only dig a deeper hole....
[ March 24, 2004, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Bill Curtin ]
Everytime you post, you only dig a deeper hole....
[ March 24, 2004, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Bill Curtin ]
so what color pink is it? lets hear what it is...
whats this about a dead horse?
[ March 25, 2004, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: quadpit rider ]
whats this about a dead horse?
[ March 25, 2004, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: quadpit rider ]
Man... talk about a can'o worms....I had no idea that the subject would be so controversial. ;-)
Enough of the horse though, I've decided to spray for sure, I'll be keeping an eye out for pictures of other Hutch Pinks (anyone like to post anything they got?)
The question is now..
' Do I enamel stove or 2 pack...'
over to you guys '
Enough of the horse though, I've decided to spray for sure, I'll be keeping an eye out for pictures of other Hutch Pinks (anyone like to post anything they got?)
The question is now..
' Do I enamel stove or 2 pack...'
over to you guys '
PAINT! PAINT AND EVEN MORE PAINT!!!!
blimey freeflyer is that your kitchen my girlfriend would go mad if i was paintstipping a frame in the kitchen .that and the smell of paintstripper
i have just started using a new powder coater, quality from this place is fantastic, you can see the welds and the sn#'s perfectly. no more thick powder for me, not when i can ge it done properly
graeme
graeme
And Race Inc. was doing the same with their 1982 framesets.
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