OK I am not real clear but I do have the spindle and cranks but I need a B/B does that mean I am going to have a tough time finding them?

My tapered spindle cranks have Sugino stamped on them.. but anyways, thanks for clearing up my confusion on the Redline flight cranks, I seem to be very ignorant on this matter, and will keep my ignorance to myself. Thanks Mr. Raybeard, you apparently are the true vet expert here. Thank you sir!!

Well i am gld mammoth got his question answered but can someone help me out since I started this thread ?

Bappy,

I think you had your question answered, They are next to impossible to find. I know of at least three people who have been searching for a long time and have not found any spindle/bottombrackets to fit the Sugino/Redline/Diamondback arms.

Yes, Diamondback, the Turbo cranks were also built by Sugino and used the same setup.

[ November 16, 2003, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: Bill Curtin ]

The original Redline Flight cranks as Raybeard wrote later became 401's a couple of years after the pinch bolt was added. They were never called anything but Flight cranks.


The 400's were a low price import that came on the Carrera bike. The were made by Sugino for Redline.

they have a pich bolt and I have the spindle. So maybe they are 401's The sticker is light blue with Redline in Red letters. I need to know if any B/b will fit this spindle? it does have a taper. What are my options?

It seems like you don't know what you even have?

Do you have Redline 400 cranks that use a square tapered spindle or are they Flights which use a splined spindle.



400 series cranks, not to be confused with real Flight cranks...



The impossible to find 400 series spindle (hard to find because they broke, look at the diameter of it).....



[ November 17, 2003, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Bill Curtin ]

This next one is the product analysis of the brand new Redline Flight cranks in the May 1980 issue of BMX action. Again, no mention of either 400 or 401 designations









[ November 17, 2003, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: Bill Curtin ]

Ok, one more detail and I totally missed this one. This is the 1980 Redline catalog. It features the original Flight cranks and I never caught this before but the part number is #401.

So there you have it. The original Flight cranks shown in a catalog that mentions the BMX Action 1980 test but noting the wrong month because the catalog came out before the issue was set. . You also have the 1982 artcle in BMX Plus talking about the new price point 400 series cranks.

Any more questions ..class?

think a bout it ?...... 75 first started their proto ..on the Flight Cranks and yet '...to what you post it's just mere adds from mags .. Did you infact ever BUY a set ?....
I know i got a pair in Jan 80 of that year that said on the box 180mm 400 ' s =REDLINE= Flight Cranks..." s- meaning splined "..

HAY "....Bill can you send me that pic ?.....I really like that picture of myself when i was doing " THAT " Table top for the add
i'd really appreciate it

..GONZO..

This interview was verbatim from Linn's own words

VintageBMX.com: When did you start getting the idea for the flight cranks?

LK: I started on the flight cranks around late 1976, and there was a bunch of generations that I started from the beginning.

LK: And late 1977--I think it was that I went to Japan as a guest of Shimano along with one of the Cook brothers, who were the first ones who copied our fork by the way. They're not real high on my list. And a guy named Gerry something that had a place called Laguna Distributors. Chuck Raudman from Skyway. A guy from CYC, Terry somebody or other. And when I came back from there, I was so impressed by what the small Japanese companies, I mean they were just little tiny hole-in-the-wall shops just like we were. There was none like Shimano, there was no big factories that were doing anything. And I got real excited about doing things over there instead of making frames and forks over here and then importing 35 parts to make a bicycle. I got the idea that what I'd like to do was make some kind of a deal with a small factory over there. Teach them how to make frames and forks for me, and let them assemble complete bicycles for me.

So, when I got back from there, my partner and I disagreed on that so I bought him out of Redline in 1978, and I was working on those cranks for about a year and a half before that and he had such little faith in that particular product that he let me have that for free, I didn't have to buy that from him. It turned out to be our best product ever, actually.

VintageBMX.com: So you went through several generations of them.

LK: Oh, yeah. Half a dozen. The first one lasted about a half an hour.

VintageBMX.com: Byron Friday told us he broke an ankle on one of them.

LK: He probably did because he didn't have a whole lot of caution. We were really feeling our way along. It was very difficult to come up with what I wanted to come up with because the existing parts that we had to utilize. The spindle sizes because of the bearings and all that stuff, were so small that I really couldn't put much of any size in there.



VintageBMX.com: In the June 1978 Bicycle Motocross Action there's a Redline ad that shows the picture of the tubular flight cranks. And its rounded at the end by the pedal boss. It looks like it's made out of rectangular tubing. And there is an actual bolt at the end, like a pinch bolt. "Newest edition of the Pro Set, available now in seven inch. Lighter than the most popular three piece alloy crank, one bolt quick change operation, uses any sprocket." Is how the ad reads. And then the next one we've been able to find in catalogs showed up in a Schwinn catalog from1979 and that didn't have the pinch bolt and had a more conventional style rounded type, rectangular tubing.



LK: There were a bunch of prototypes; I think we made a couple of hundred that we used for testing and on the tours, and just to kind of find out what we were doing; and I really didn't get into it until I found somebody that could make that proper tubing the way I wanted it; and then that's what launched us. We couldn't make enough of those for ten years, it seemed like.

WOW! Finally a picture of the elusive 400 series spindle. I'd love to find one to make some copies, if there is anyone who'll lend me one I'd be very grateful. Please!

Hey Babymammoth I sense maybe I upset you with my responce. The purpose of my responce was simply to prevent Bill Curtain from going through his disertation for the 10th time. You seems to know flight cranks and I was not arguing your knowledge. I was just pointing out that the 400 name was not used until the cheaper model Suginos with the tapered spindle were released.

FYI I beleive I have a 400 series spindle. I guess I need to test fit it against a set of aluminum arms to determine if its too large.

Bill, why do the cranks in that 1980 installation instruction have pinch bolts?

Good question..

Becase it appears that particular instruction sheet came with my second set of flights which I bought in late 1980. They had added pinch bolts at that point.

I think what I was trying to illustrate through this entire post was that Redline did not market their first crank with a numbering convention.

They only started the numbering convention with the introduction of the 400 series crank.

They took the original crank and called it a 401 because it part # 401 in their original numbering convention

Raybeard, let me know how you get on with the spindle, thanks

downlowmatt I'll let you know tomorrow. I got a Sugino drive side arm last winter from a bike shop. It came with a spindle. I sold the arm but kept the spindle. I has the threaded studs like the one Bill posted. I'll check the fit tonight and let you know.

Will you lets us all know?I have one with one crank arm too.Thanks

Ok now that I have been edumacated. They are early 401's. That being said I have the arms and the spindle. Will any american B/B work with these? Or do i need to find redline? Please let me know and thanks for the posts especially the one with instructions. Awesome!

You need a 28t bottom bracket. Tioga was the last company to make them.


Try here

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...&category=22677

[ November 17, 2003, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: Bill Curtin ]

Bill you are awesome that is what I needed Bro OHH YEAH the Flights!!!

redline rules ! need i say more? ahhh..., yes. thanks bill, and everyone else. very informative thread. it sure helps to have access to the real experts, given that my old grey matter is a bit foggy after all of these years. to say the least...

Here are some photos of the bb that I have. It came with a Sugino 400 series arm that I since sold. I was keeping this in hopes of finding some DB Turbo crank arms.





I checked the fit with a set of DB Turbo lite arms and the spindle is too large. The taper goes from about 14 mm to about 13 mm. The spindle shaft is 5 1/4 inches long not counting the thread studs on the end. Bearing cups and spindle are both stamped Sugino.

I'm not sure if the bb is complete as it seems to be missing a nut.

[ November 18, 2003, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: raybeard ]

Ray ...
Adjusting Nut
Washer
Lock Nut
Is needed ..

I need them all !... let me know

..GONZO..

Gonzo I have one nut which looks like a lock nut. What is the small spacer shown in my picture? Is that needed?

I have the same size spindle but for loose bearings.

Hey Jeff you got a B/B that would work for the flights you could sell me?

Let me know.
Bap

Call me,you have mail.

Well sounds like that's the right spindle. If you could mail me to downlowmatt@hotmail.com I'd be grateful, thanks.

Matt

many thanks Bill.

this should be a sticky

I have October 1982 BMXAction, REDLINE ad that offers Redline flight cranks in " 400 Series " and "401 Series" It's the one with all of those beat up Vans shoes in the background. May 1982 BMXAction, REDLINE ad with a PL 20 Carrera, chrome with blue trim and PINCHLESS 401 Flight cranks...

Ray"....No spacer !........Lock nut yes . And do you have the Nut's ?.... for the "crank arms".

I found a pair of 401 180mm FLIGHT'S , and the non drive side pedal is sized . I've been having a Hell of a time trying to take it OFF??.... broke 2-wrenches and a cut Knuckle ......so right now i got the pedal off down to the spindle in a vice soking in (WD-40) waiting to be unstuck ?...Next I'll TORCH IT !!!!!!

Gonzo, put the pedal spindle in a vise and tap the crank arm with a nylon hammer in the direction of loosening the pedal, that's the way I got some siezed Profile pedals off some flights.