First off the serial # is:

T-CA1

377XXX

I think T=team (full cromo),C=Chatsworth?,A=January and 1=1981.Am I correct?

Also on this frame does anybody know if the Supergoose sticker is supposed to be placed on the top tube or the down tube?I have included pics to show what frame it is.



Thanks in advance for any help !

Jim

ceo@sportscardgold.com

decal goes on the down tube. there was a post on this a week or so ago. 80 was on the top tube. i have the same frame and decals.

here is a pic of a goose that i picked up from the "scrap yard". it's serial starts with CF9. how do you find out what specific model it's supposed to be? i noticed your's starts with the "t", meaning team. makes sense to me. how do i find out what my frame is made of?

Nice soopergoose there....you can also tell by the pinched seat stay on the chain side....freewheel clearance I think. You look to be correct on your cyphering there.

I posted a few weeks ago about decal location on my '80 soopergoose (I'm a top-tuber) and the folks here helped me out. Mine is about 36,000 units and 3 months ahead of yours (T-CJ0 341,XXX). Those repro decals are awesome!



Nice find xwarp.....we usually only throw away junk where I'm from. Yours looks to be a mongoose from June '79. Nickel finish and cromo front triangle.

yeah, this frame is in excellent shape. one of these days, i'll take some time and polish it. i built it for my daughter. she loves it. it is one of those "scrapyard" rescues. it's got the tange forks and original handle bars. it also has the coaster brake tab. just curious, the statement you made about "usually throw junk away", what did you mean? i'm gonna go out on a limb and say that most of these frames i've seen here were in pretty bad shape. rusted pretty bad in the rear.

Wow what a small world I have a nickel goose serial#

CF9
180XXX

Just like yours.It was painted red and came with some MOTO MAGS.Here are some pics of the Supergoose (with the stickers applied) has a TRX fork until I can find a 1981 Supergoose one.The second pic is the 79 w/tab and the third is a set of nickel goose forks.

Jim

Hutchheaven,

Nice frames....measure the decal placement that's visible in the nickel before you polish it. That will be some valuable information when you add new decals. I found that nickel responds to polishing much better than chrome so, you oughta be able to make that frame look nearly new. Nice stem too!

xwarp,

I meant I would never find a frame that nice in the scrap yard.

mr '76, i can agree with that. i got very lucky with the frames i have. the elf doublecross pic in the retro/new school section is another frame i got from the same place. i also picked up a really nice chrome 87 gt pro-freestyle frame from the same place. a fellow that works there told me of a trickstar he saw at the swap meet here. he said the guy wanted 80 for it. he told me it was in ok shape, but that was 8 months ago. i guess this would be a fine example of "right place, wrong time". i might hit the swap meet this weekend to see if i can find something old school. the bug has not seemed to migrated here yet.

ps hutchheaven....that frame is sweet!!

HI
THIS IS A PICTURE OF MY SUPERGOOSE
HOPE YOU LIKE IT
I HAVE JUST BOUGHT ANOTHER FRAME AND FORKS
HAS ANY ONE GOT ANY INFO ON ANODIZING AS I WANT IT CANDY BLUE
SEE YA
NIGEL

Are you sure that that is a Supergoose?The fork came with regular gooses.What are the first few characters in the serial#?Whatever it is it looks really nice!

Hutchheaven,

I'm still learning a lot here but I thought '81 had the stepped rear dropout.

I know your serial number indicates an '81 but the rear dropouts say '80 to me. Can someone clear me up on this?

Nigel,

Beautiful super! Are those Takagi cranks? I'm putting a blue set of those on mine.

I think the early ones had this type and later in the year they switched?

Nigel are ther any extra holes in the brake bridge?

not to bad mouth these frames, as i really do like them, but, it seems that everyone of the frames that i have seen are not straight in some form. like mine, the seat stay "gusset" is not inline with the seat stay tubes. i junked a beatup 81 frame that if you looked down the centerline from the head tube, the rear was slightly off center. it was really noticable when you put the wheel on it. anybody know why this is?

those are some nice bikes guys!! especially the shiney chrome.
i'm a goose collector as well, and have at least one of every year '78 through '84. including '80, '82, and '83 supers. i'm looking for a '76 and '77 to round it out. does anyone have an extra set of the supergoose decals? i'm in dire need of at least one set. and also am in need of a chrome supergoose fork. and does anyone have the '83 supergoose set? that one seems a little harder to find.
you guys have your numbers entirely correct, except the "t". T=full cromo, nothing more. and not all supergooses were full. only the teams were full cromo. if there were too many team frames in any given year, they were left chrome, (not epoxy coated), and given the supergoose treatment. this is why you sometimes find a supergoose with the "t" in front of the rest of the code. and ALOT of team frames have been stripped of their coating and passed as supers. check inside the head gussets for traces of the original color, sometimes the method of stripping did not remove it all. anyways, enough of my rambling, anyone have the decals? please please.....

--mike.

Are you sure that all Supergooses weren't full cromo?I have never seen one that wasn't?All of the goose literature that I can find show's the Supers as full cromo.I may be crazy but I am almost certain they were all cromo,but I have been wrong before.Numerous times as a matter of fact !

Jim

most of the pics and ads (articles, etc..) that you'll find DO in fact say that the super is a full cromo bike. BUT (you knew this was coming) most of this was based on one particular bike (per article or ad) and not the entire production run. they (bike companies) were not required to be as specific about their products as they are nowadays, and could get away with a little misleading information. the super was advertised, and sold as a full cromo bike. but if you melted down the different tubes, you would find that only the front triangle was cromo. that little sticker that came on the motomag gooses was left off of the supers, for obvious reasons. this was really never an issue as most all the different goose frames were pretty darn tough as it was (is). i have seen fewer broken mongoose bikes (the gussett years of coure) than most any other make of two wheeler out there. hope this helps.... if not, sorry.

--mike.

But every Supergoose that I have seen with the original stickers had a sticker like the regular gooses except it showed the entire frame and said that it was full cromo.

i have also seen alot that way, as thats the way they were supposed to be. but i have also seen some without that little sticker that weren't fully cromo.

--mike.

hey xwarp, i have a few like that myself. i think maybe they were built at 5:30 or so on friday afternoon when everyone was ready to split.

nigel, nice job!!

Mike,

Hate to pop your bubble but all Supergoose frames were full chromo. They were designed to be a pricepoint between the Team Goose and the regular goose. I don't know where you came up with this conspiracy theory about duping the public with half chromo frames. Maybe you were duped in buying a used one?

The "T" in the serial number was originally used to designate the Team frame as a full chromo frame. The Team Goose came out almost a year and half before the Supergoose. The sure fire way to tell a full chromo frame is the crimped seat stay to allow for chain clearance. The original Mongoose frame was designed for a coaster brake hence many of the used frames with a groove worn in the stay. A coaster brake cog sits more inboard than a freewheel. When freewheels came into use, BMX Products made the modification to the full chromoly frames as they were to sold for use with a freewheel.

Your theory about frames being stripped and passed off as Supergoose frames is not the case either. Powdercoat does not bond to chrome. It will peel easily. Most frames that started to peel, the owner would just remove it all rather than have a frame that looked like hell.

You are right about looking for signs of powdercoat. Unless you had it professionally stripped, there would be traces in between the gussets and the lug behind the seatmast.

BMX Products also never had a problem with over production. In fact, they probably had a case of short supply. They produced almost a half a million frames in the same time frame Redline only built about 50,000.

Unless you can produce an NOS half chromo Supergoose still factory sealed in the box, your facts are wrong.

Too many of you guys are assuming info about BMX bikes and their details. The guys that ran and owned many of these companies are still around. Its not hard to go ask them, that what I do. Some mebers of the board have been in contact with Skip Hess Sr. who owned BMX Products. Russ Okawa who ran the shop works I believe at Giant Bicycles. Our own Cash Matthews has spoken with Skip recently and he was also was a factory rider for BMX Products during this period.

Here is a little something

i knew that was coming..

Class...back in your seats!

Bill-

In reference to you statement reguarding Powder Coating a chromed frame. You are refering to the transparent powder that BMX Products used on the Team frames, right? I know my blue Team Mongoose that I got as a kid in May of 79 was not blue in July. That finish they used was lousy. It was hard to resist picking at those bikes.

I have had several chromed frames restored with traditional Powder Coating and have had no peeling problems.

THANKS A LOT TO EVERYONE WHO PAST POSITIVE COMMENT ON MY BELOVED SUPERGOOSE
I BOUGHT THE BIKE FROM THE USA IN JULY(ITS CLASSED AS A TEAM GOOSE IN THE GALLERY...ITS THE RED ONE WITH BLACK TUFF...HAVE A LOOK
WHEN I GOT IT TO ENGLAND I STARTED TO INVESTIGATE IT .........I COULD NOT BELIEVE HOW CONFUSING IT ALL GOT
BUT AFTER SPEAKING TO A LOT OF YOU ALL ON VBMX.COM
I WAS CONVINCED IT WAS A SUPERGOOSE.SO THATS WHAT I HAVE BUILT IT AS
THE FRAME NUMBER IS H150050
THE FORKS ARE TANGE TX1200,TAGAKI TOURNEY CRANK
SUNTOUR STEM,MX1000 BRAKES,TUFFNECK CLAMP
FULL RECHROME,PAD SETRACE INC BARS(POWDER COATED
KKT LIGHTNING PEDALS,KASHIMAX AERO
THANKS
NIGEL

The candy apple red and blue finishes on a Team Mongoose frame were a translucent powder coat. The stuff that was being used 20+ years ago is not even close to the quality of todays products.

Nigel,

If your bike is colored, its a Team Goose. The Supergoose was originally a nickel plated frame and later chrome plated.

the Team frame was blue or red only.

Nigel....lose the caps!

HAL.....WHAT CAPS
BILL....HOW DO I GET THE CANDT BLUE FINISH DO I NEED THE FRAME RECHROMED
THANKS
MIGEL

I MEAN..NIGEL

The friggin capital letters you type in...lose em!

SoRrY I wIlL nEvEr eVeR Do It AgaIn
this any better Hal

love Nigel

You have a late frame based on your serial number. H150050

At that point, BMX Products was no longer plating the Team Goose. It would get a base coat of silver powder and then the translucent on top as a second coat.

Bill
so my bike is a 1981 team mongoose

Nigel are there two extra holes in the brake bridge?

ok, lemme get this straight:
"T" is for team goose? reguardless of color or coating?
supergoose is full cromo, reguardless of #? and chrome only?
and finding the pinched seatstay at the rear dropout is a sure fire way of telling if its a full cromo frame, (team or super)?

ok, here are my questions:
why do i have a chrome finished frame with no pinched rear?
why do i have a nickel frame with a "T" in the number?
and why does my '82 super have 2 #'s? one on the bb shell, one under the rear box? (they are both '82 #'s, A2000***, B2000***? this one also has no piched rear tube.

--mike.

P.S.
does anyone have an extra set of chrome goose forks?

oh yeah, and whats the deal with the extra holes in the brake bridge? my previously mentioned '82 has those, why?

--mike.

T=Team

Yes full cromo and only chrome.

Yes,pinched means full cromo.

Later Mongoose frames came in chrome (I think 1981 and later were available in chrome).

Early Team Mongoose frames were available in Nickel.

???

Hey I need those forks as well and posted looking for them in the proper section!

Hope this helps and that I am correct on all of the info!

Jim

I think that the later supergoose frames had those holes?So you could tell the difference between them and the Mongoose frames?

Jim

well, i dont like to type the same thing twice, so i try to get it in all at once.

that info answers most of my questions, but not all.

i've seen those brake plate holes on the super and the team frames, was originally thinkin it was to reduce weight, but on 'those' frames?
and i still dont have a theory on my two-number frame?

--mike.

P.S.
how but some basic red forks?

This is all getting confusing
i am even doubting what my goose is
it has not got any extra holes in the brake bridge
the main thing that swung me in favour of supergoose was the drop down rear stays with two holes drilled in them
any ideas ?

another thing
on the box section directly behind the bottom bracket mine has a hole there too
thanks
nigel

my supergoose that you see in the museum was built from an nos frame. it is a late 81 model. it has holes in the brake bridge and dropouts. i am almost certain that the crimping of the seat stays stopped after the new style dropouts came out. after all, the dropouts were redesigned for more clearence right? why would they still need to be crimped? they don't interfere. my 81 regular goose has dropout holes and no brake bridge holes but has the hole in the gusset box where the chain stays weld on. there are alot of variations in these mongoose bikes... it's a good thing we have bill around to keep it all straight!!

oh' yeah nigel, if you do find that your goose ain't so "super" then let me know, i think i have a regular straight dropout full cro-mo super frame sitting around. this one is a mr. "t" with the crimped dropouts. no doubt this one is the real deal. man, they should have never quit putting that darn "t" on there. look at the trouble it has caused.!!!

You guys better go here and read what I just wrote up to stop the RaceInc/FMF confusion.

I'll do the same for Mongoose when I get the time

http://www.vintagebmx.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...=1;t=004283;p=2

There are answers to all you questions.

"T" stood for a full chromoly frame prior to the serial number change in the early 1980's reguardless of finish?

Supergoose frames were always full chromoly.

They were chroming all the regular Mongoose frames in the 1980's. Nickel had totally fallen out of use as it was not durable.

The pinched seatstay at the rear dropout is a sure fire way of telling if its a full cromo frame on frames without the pictured dropout.


What tells the differences between the frames is this and don't over generalize my answers as typing this stuff is tedious.

Mongoose frames were unchanged until sometime around 1980/1 when the dropout was changed which increased bottom bracket height and chain clearance. During this time there were changes to the lug behind the bottom bracket. The original one was solid. I have seen one with a hole in it and yet another which is a folded "c" shaped channel, open on the bottom.

I currently have a Supergoose frame that bought new in 1981. The serial number is on the bottombrackt and reads "I166792". The lug is closed with a hole through it. It has the above dropout and it has no crimped seat stay. It also has the elongated holes in the brake bridge.

Now read this carefully, despite what people have found or seen even in this sites museum, all Team Mongoose frames were either candy apple blue or red. They were never bare chrome or nickel. What set them off from the other models was their colored finish. The early ones were nickelplated underneath the translucent coating, later ones were chrome. Around 1980 or so they were silver powdercoat with the blue or red finish applied on top.

The Supergoose was originally released in nickel but later became chrome. This might where the confusion came from on frames that have no trace of blue or red but have the "T" in the serial number.

There were changes in the serial number system also. From the very beginning, the numbers were as follows:
a two letter and single number such as this
CE8 The first letter stood for Chatswortth where BMX Products was located at the time. The second letters meaning has never really been figured out. Some of you guys think its a month code but I have never discovered this. It might have been a batch code? The single number is the year code. 8 would be 1978.

The next seriouts of numbers is the actual production number. As an example 175678 would be the 175,678th frame since 1975 assuming they started numbering them at #1 which they did not. We do not know exactly what number they started with. I know there are some 3 digit frames floating around though.

The next form of serial number was a single letter followed by numbers. This appeared at first on the bottom brackets and later on the underside edge of the lug behind the bottom bracket. Kilo says he has a frame with two serial numbers. They would not have thrown parts out. He most like has a frame that used parts from the earlier numbering series and the later one.
How could this happen you ask? Mongoose frames were assemble in two sections. The front trinagle and the rear triangle. Then they were attached. The guy building the front half might have had a box with old bottom bracket shells and the guy building the rear section had a box of new bottom bracket lugs.

The slotted holes in the brake bridge was also found on the newer frames including the Kos Cruiser and Mongoose 2/4.

If you want a definitive ID guide to Mongoose frame, send me a detailing of your frame features and the serial numbers that are found on them. Pictures would help also.

I had to get cracking on my homework now....

wow, that was a mouth full!! now, all with fake super geese say "I"!

who's the resident metallurgist here anyway? don't they have some kind of gauge that you can check metals with to find out if a tube is cro-mo or regular cheezy steel? just a thought...

quote:

---

ok, here are my questions:
why do i have a chrome finished frame with no pinched rear?
why do i have a nickel frame with a "T" in the number?
and why does my '82 super have 2 #'s? one on the bb shell, one under the rear box? (they are both '82 #'s, A2000***, B2000***? this one also has no piched rear tube.

---

Mike,
We answered your question about the 1982 frame. It has the newer dropout so it didn't need a pinched stay. You need to give us the serial numbers of each of your frames and their attributes to get a positive ID.

"nickel frame with a "T" in the number?" doesn't cut it.

You need to be more descriptive if you want an answer.