QUOTE (AshHill @ Jun 5 2012, 08:22 PM)
Breaking down your condescending questions and arrogant comments
-Your not FORCING a rider, it would be a requirement just like many other requirement you have to obtain in our wonderful sport.
- The state series is within the state, the national series is within ALL states. The National series feeds off those state series championships (ROC / Presidents Cup) The National series has no allegiance to the state series and I believe -along with a great percentage of our followers- that it should.
-The comment about the rider not being able to obtain a state plate if they do not race the national in their state.. This was my favorite one! For someone who knows so much about the sport would know that not all states have nationals -so there is arrogant comment number 1.
- Carrying the burden of the sport, if it werent for those local tracks your child (not you....) would not have a sport to call home.
Then you become very ignorant when your statement that the levels have nothing to do with one another. Im not real sure if you race or your living in the light of your child-- but I raced nationaly for a very long time... Very competitively... the highest you can just about achieve... You sicken me with your arrogance. This sport is known for its vigor, but NOT for its lack of common respect for your fellow BMXers. Those TO's who give their lives (second jobs/ ontop of their own) build and maintain those tracks that your child races on. Those local tracks that most of the nationals rest their big rigs.
The ONLY thing you may be correct in is your statement that more NAG riders may be hitting those local races. But I can assure you that those local NAG chasers are under the age of 12...
-Those who lack the depth to understand... this one may be my favorite... each time I read it I imagine a man who lives his life through his child, not having any real respect for the sport or the man who started the thread. Reread the threads initial post... scroll through the thread and have a look at the replys JAF has given... all noncontroversal and with real care to the sport he loves so dearly. The type of man who will ask the hard questions with hope to learn the feelings of the people around him. THEN lets see how you feel about being such an ass and so disrectful to a lifetime BMXer who is a team owner (of a Team your son may be passed by due to your big mouth)
To start if it is a requirement then it is forced as you have no other option should you want to compete at the national level.
The national series does not feed off of the state series championship (ROC / Presidents Cup) , it is run in conjunction with it at the Grands. Again the two have absolutley nothing to do with each other except they are run over the course of the same race week. The birthdate criteria is not even the same as with the ROC you race the age you raced at your state championship and the Grands you race your age at the time of qualifying. That in itself could be an entirely different thread. Now what I believe you meant to say was that the national series pulls their racers from the local base and that I agree with, however they are not ditching their local track every weekend for them. I will go out on a limb and say at best the average NAG contender averages 1 - 1.2 nationals per month. The rest of the time the majority are frequenting their local tracks. Even the local racer misses a race or two monthly to the point that it is probably a wash by comparision. Look at track championships and at best 3-4 racers have perfect race attendance.
I know very well that their is not a national in every state, that is why I worded my response with if that state had a national. It was done on purpose to prove a point. Your response only strengthens my response that the two have nothing in common and should not be be pointed or reflect one another. If you cannot make a program successful on its own and you create rules in an attempt to retain a higher percentage then that would be a burden on the proposed racers in question.
When you ask a question that does not propose all the options/answers well then it is in fact controversal. Using your words if the original poster is not afraid to ask the hard questions, then they should not be offended by the hard answers. All I did was show the other side of the question, the side that was not thought about, the side that is currently effective today. I responded to the questions with questions and at least was able to give viable reason as to why the debate is mute. To not look at both sides of the coin and be open to them is in fact not having or showing depth to the question at hand, it was not a personal attack. You then accused me falsely of being ignorant and arrogant (of this situation at least) and felt that it was ok for you to be hypocritical and make personal slanderous statements. Lucky for you I voted for the right guy and I am not offended.
I in no way shape or form live through my kids. I have lived my dreams, accomplished most of my material goals and had my own personal felt success, we race BMX because it is what my son wants to do and no other reason. What I do do is support my kids to the highest level necessary for them to be successful and that has nothing to do with racing. I apply the same mindset towards their scholastic achievements, repsect of their elders and peers, community volunteer efforts and various sporting and hobbies. Am I hard on my kids? You bet! Have I made mistakes along the way? You bet! Do I put structured pressure on them in an effort to reduce mistakes and be smart on their feet? You bet! Will I always do what is neccessary regardless of public opinion to protect my kids? You guessed it! On the contrary I am not living through my kids, they are living through me (literally).
The beauty of your attack on me is that you have absolutely no idea of what lengths we go through to support our local (within our state and the tri state area) race scene. My son is just your average state racer that also does his fair share of nationals. Others may label him as a NAG rider, but to him he just races BMX. Those that know my son also know that he races Open, Cruiser and Class at all locals to aid with entry counts and get the most riding out of a race day (I know crazy arrogant, non respecting, ignorant ass huh). Race the Wednesday night and Saturday night races as well as the Sunday local races oh and let's not forget about those 2 hour drives south on alternating Friday nights to race at another state track that we love so much. Could easily stop and fill up a cooler, but choose to frequent the tracks concession stand in a total effort to support the tracks efforts. Early spring when our local track drug its feet for 6 weeks to get the track open we could have just sat on the couch like most, but no we left at 6 p.m. on a Saturday night and drove 10 hours to Tennessee to race and see friends all to turn around right after on Sunday and drive home all night. You see my original reply does not even pertain to us as we will always meet the quota simply out of normal track participation regardless of our national status. The point is that the majority of the NAG contenders will do so also regardless of the quota amount. Something that was never researched or even considered. As far as the team remark and my son getting passed by, well we will just take that chance I suppose. He gets bye pretty good right now and I would venture to say that he promotes and knows his sponsors better than most double his age.
On average how many NAG riders are really missing from local tracks throughout the country on a national weekend? ABA claims 370 tracks in the U.S. so let's take a 200 moto national and we will say that on average there are 1200 entries (6 riders per rack) which ratios out to a little less than 3.5 riders per track average on a national weekend (some tracks more, some tracks none) but the local scene is definately not being destroyed by NAG competitiors venturing off on national weekends. Now that number would be true only if people did not ride multiple classes so now what happens to the ratio, maybe 2.5 - 2.7ish? So at worst case scenario if those 1200 national entries never raced a local (which we know is grossly false) a local would be missing out on approximately 2.5 racers. It is not being ignorant or arrogant, it is knowing the answer to the question.
I hate to even continue with this reply because the following has been discussed for so long it is almost as bad as a clips vs. flats debate.
Locals - Regardless of the efforts to drum up new participants and create new rider counts, all efforts are wasted if a solid base does not exist. So you bring fresh blood through the door, but how are you going to keep them? There my friend lies the rub. The answer is not the same nation wide as communities, track history / involvement, other activity competition, etc. is not the same in all areas. Many tracks today are being operated by racers from the golden era and volunteers that bring their passion for the sport they are trying to reaquaint themselves with. The problem is that a good portion are trying to market BMX the way they did 30+ years ago and that simply is not the answer. Why? Simple because BMX is not the same! Pocket protector companies do not have the same market share they once had because they were replaced with smartphones, do you think the manufacturers run the same operating proceedures? The same goes for BMX, it has been replaced with many other activities and the clientele is not the same when considering the "new" wave of competitiors. The residual new racer (one that is related to a previous racer) will find a track one way or another, that is a given and not who you are chasing. You want the convert, the new racer that could have easily ended up on the basketball court, but found out BMX was more their style and just never knew it. Do I have all the answers as to how to do that? No! Why? Well because like business you need the stomach for failure and being able to respond to the needs of your clientele to make your program successful. Trial and error is more than likely the key to success. So many good posts on what tracks can do to seed the market, but never an objective as to what they are going to do once they bring them in. To me the first step would be to run the track more like a business and less like a non for profit fun center. People need structure as they will not do it by themselves. Simple base rules of closing sign up when you say, accurately posting moto's in a timely fashion, organized staging and starting as close to the posted start time as possible. To put a cherry on the top get a good announcer that can call a race like it is the greatest show on earth. I cannot think of a more valuable asset on race day than an announcer that can pump up track and rider sponsors, promote specials at the snack bar and call a race from first to eighth to please all parents, spectators and racers. How about main rollouts for full gates? The program value that is added by the extra 10-15 minutes of weekly fame can be very addictive. To me all those basic qualities in a program far exceed the actual race surface and layout. I know that for me I enjoy going racing where the facility is run like a well oiled machine opposed to a killer track that is continuously 2-3 hours behind with 5 moto board re-posts and then running around with their hair on fire to get the motos run before the rain falls. Create security in your customers by building confidence that you are organized enough to know what you are doing. What message are these tracks sending when they cannot even handle the basics? I know it has been discussed about how long an average local race should take. I say that people will willingly stay as long as you make it comfortable to stay. I have always said having fun at a track is when they make it a destination, and not just a race.
Next up how about state tracks working together with scheduling? You know how many states have 3-5 tracks running on the same day or night, only to complain about only having 8-10 moto's? Here's a thought, make your own series to not compete for the same client on the same race day and use your now 25-50 moto's to grow your tracks? In the end I assure you the dividends will be larger for all. State qualifiers and races, why are other tracks running on your deligated day? Since locals are state and state is being debated, why are the tracks working against each other? Promote the state series if locals are truly your argument.
Ash let me also be the first to welcome you to Vintage.