I would like to see a race ready PK looptail, or atleast have the option. I raced my 08 retro PK one night and I have dimples in the chainring. Other than that it is one of the best bikes I have ever had the pleasure of racing. Keep the standard headsets on the retros. A race ready option would be nice. Just a sealed headset and a better chainring/sprocket.

I do agree with maybe putting out a retro freestyle PK, with the caliper front brake.

Wow. I went to the site just now and they already killed my team frame I was going to buy.

FIGURES! I'll just pick up an nos sometime.

They streamlined my frame. Wow.

Todd,

I'm sure you don't need reminding that some of the boys on here take SE and themselves way, WAY too seriously. It was a brave move asking for opinions on this forum, that's for sure.

At the end of the day we're just overgrown kids arsing around on little bikes that make us happy. That's it. It does sort of suck that the bikes aren't US made any more, but in all honesty who cares? The bikes are well built with tidy welding and reasonably good parts (that most of us upgrade within a week or two anyway), so as far as I can see where they're churned out isn't an issue. I could understand the hissy fits it you were turning out low-rent supermarket rubbish with an SE sticker on the headtube, but you're not. Look at it this way: if your current line-up can generate this much squabbling, you must be doing something right. And I very much doubt there would even be an SE if you hadn't shipped manufacturing overseas, right?

And while I'm on it, if anyone on here insists on a US SE, just go onto eBay and buy one! It's not as though they're all gone, is it!

*sigh*... Anyway, now that I've got that off my chest...

- Euro BB's are a great idea. Much more practical and a whole lot nicer than US BB's. I'd use them throughout.

- I'm sure a Cr-Mo OM would be a big seller, but keep it simple on the colour combo. In fact, I'd keep the colours simple on all the bikes the retro crowd are going to be interested in. Chrome would be cool as long as the finish is good, but I'd be using SE blue, tan and brown, candy red, candy blue, and that's it. The first three make the most famous colour combo in BMX and I'd be sticking to them like glue. I'd also use decals identical to the originals on all the retros (as you did for the PK)...that alone helps the old school vibe of the bikes considerably. I'm not a fan of some of the weird new colours and especially the wrap finishes, but that's just me. I like my SE's to look like SE's.

- Dunno about 3 to be honest, and 4 falls under the point I made earlier. If folks don't like the seats, it's only a few quid to upgrade it. I suppose something like the retro BMX seats with the lightening bolt would be a good idea.

That's my thoughts. Don't let the extremists grind you down Todd. You're doing a great job, just keep it simple and classy and don't forget the essence of the brand.

Cheers, Bob

I second the previously mentioned suede seat and chrome decals.

I would love to see a brown and baby blue annodized frame & fork, a flashy little twist on the classic SE colors.

Also Powerwings in brown and baby blue anno.

And I agree with sonnik71 about the collaborations. How about a Vans collab with a checkered wrapped frame?

I also suggest a 26" Quad Freestyle (heh heh)

Thanks Todd!

TOOK THE WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH.............

Bob knows how we Euros tick. I couldn´t say it better (literally lol).

I just can speak for the PK Looptail, since it´s the only bike in the range (aside from a possible Floval Looptail one day) i am really interested in.
- Keep the colors simple.
- Make it an Euro BB.
- And add +0.25" TT on each size. So it will become 20.75" and 21.5" TT. That´s all.

Cheers

Todd.
So, I searched the museum and tried to find a cool color combo from the past... you really have done a lot of them already.... this one hit me... and a lot of people must like it, it's got a ton of Faves... This would be a sick combo for the "Big Ripper"... doesn't have to polished like this one, but I do like polished! ball burnished black and gold would be Bad A$$

http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/se_racing/13762

I vote for NO euro BB's on the basic retro's. I wouldn't mind a mid, but I still preffer American.

Keep the standard headsets, too.

If the only thing that makes the retro's retro becomes the looptail rear end, decals, and color schemes, then in my opinion, they've lost their appeal.

Waaaooooo amigos! Where's the love in Vintage BMX house? Just because I disagree or tell it like it is... I'm a jerk? I am one of Todd's biggest fans! I was risking my life in a skatepark when some of you were in diapers!

SE Racing is in my blood, and Todd Lyons is a SoCal Legend! When time permits, I'm more than happy to give more feedback.

Live long Scott B.

Peace!

NO MORE COLORED TIRES! YUK!

Why are you still here? Troll somewhere else.

Dude, I am not a Troll and take you personal attacks to the Romper Room Forum, a Forum where you belong.

- Good day

Todd comes in looking for feedback and starts constructive conversation in this thread.

Dead Weight (OldSchoolRay) starts blasting and complaining (which is what we have all seen him do since he has been here) and turns the thread sour. By The Way, tool, Devitt started SE with Scot, he didn't buy it from Scot later.

Everyone wants you to get lost and stop muddying up threads. You said you were gone, please do all of us a favor and stick to it.

Hit the report button if anyone craps their pants any further in this thread.

Todd: Keep up the good work; I can't imagine the complexities of a brand manager in BMX, especially in times like these.

Amen brother Elvis!

I think it's great when we self moderate but there comes a point when you have to let the management step in and take out the trash. It's not the easiest job being a mod. It's very hard to keep an eye on everything. Been there done that...

That said lets not lower ourselves to this individuals level anymore. Just report him and let Mike and his crew do their thing.

This is such a cool thread anyway! It's so awesome to have a bike co. in here asking for and valuing our opinions. Mad props to Todd and SE bikes for taking their cue's from their customers not some pencil pushing geek sitting behind a desk reading demographics info and other meaningless hoo ha!

Captn, Not trying to fight but I would like some more clarification on your statement as obviously your reply was directed at my post. Why not go integrated and mid BB? I always thought the idea of Retros was too look the part but to have today's tech. Have you used an integrated headset or a mid/spanish BB yet on a rider of yours? Everything goes together so much cleaner (especially if you have a set of the newer forks with the built in race) and is so care free. I will never go back to cracking headset cups when casing a set of doubles, pounding cups in and out (even witht he proper tool) etc. I understand your desire to keep them retro but at what point do we finally move ahead? Why arent we using quill stems then? Why are we using v brakes as opposed to calipers? Why arent we using 19 inch long toptubes and the old geo?

I agree with offering (at the least) a 26" Landing Gear after market fork with v-brake bosses. When you're using these big bikes as urban cruisers the front brakes are great for control.

Let's not make this a hate thread. It's great that any company out there is looking for input for future production lines. Big prop's to SE Racing.

It wasn't a slam on anyone elses opinions, I just like them the way they are, better.

You start using euro bb's, and intergrated headsets, then the bikes start moving into the modern race line-up.

Modern geometry is just that, modern. These bikes need to feel confortable for today's riders. I don't think standard headsets, and American bb's change the way a bike handles. But longer top tubes, brakes that work well, and a front end that doesn't flex like a noodle, do.

To me retro needs a bit of old school. Not just "the look" with decals and a loop rear end, but that classic profile.

I won't hate them if Todd moves them to a more "modern" set-up, but in my opinion, they will become less retro. Right now, I think it's the perfect balance.

I did not take it as a slam. No harm no foul.


While I agree with your points I think I am willing to cross the line a little further as in my opinion the integrated headset is just as needed as the threadless stem/fork. It just makes sense. I think the floval tubing of the PK retro vs the new bulgie in the front floval in the back half tubing, the unmistakable headtube gusset, the looptail, the colors selected all work together to make it a retro PK that adding an integrated headset would not change. I mean look at the current non retro PK ripper. None of the features I just listed (looptail, distinctive headgusset etc) are there. To me that bike does not look like a PK. While I know it is it just doesnt say PK. Take the stickers off and at any local track it would blend in. Take the retro PK even with the new ideas I suggested and it would still stand out like a sore thumb. Anyways not trying to argue just enjoying a discussion with someone who I know is a serious SE fan and I wanted to understand your point better.

I see your points sonnik, and I understand them.

I guess, I don't mind the standard headset, cuz once I build 'em, they tend to stay that way. And I wouldn't use anything but LG's, so no problem with incombatable forks.

If someone is riding them that hard that they are cracking headset cups, then maybe a retro isn't for them. I've seen some dudes get pretty rad on retro quads, and I haven't heard them complain about it being a problem.

I race all mine, and have yet to have any issue. I'm not "mister rad", but at 200 lbs, I've cased my share of doubles.

That classic look of a standard headset IS one of the distiguishing characteristics I like about the retro's, along with the other things you mentioned regarding the PK.

Once again, thanks for the feedback & suggestions. Below are my newest comments. And yes, I have been making notes on my 2011 spec sheets regarding stuff to change & modify.

-I am almost certain that we will keep all retro bikes with normal headsets & also with American BB’s. I don’t want to bikes to be “too” new-school.

-I think that the Big Ripper will change to Euro BB. What do you guys think of that?

-I am leaning REAL hard towards changing the OM Flyer back to Cr-Mo frame. And possibly with v-brake mounts on the forks as well. –The v-brake idea came directly from the forums. Thanks!

-We won’t be offering any raw/unpainted frames.

-SE is not owned by a foreign entity. It is owned by Advanced Sports Inc. Located in Philadelphia, PA http://advancedsports.com/aboutus.html

-The collaboration project bikes help to spread the SE name into new markets. That’s why we have chosen non-tradional BMX companies to collaborate with.

-Mid/Spanish BB would lose a bit of the old-school flavor as there would be no BB cups to be anodized in a different color than the frame. So the bike would lose a bit of sparkle if we went with a Mid or Spanish BB.

-The PK’s will remain with V-brakes

-We “streamlined” the PK Ripper Team frame & shaved off nearly a pound. Went from 4.4lbs to 3.4lbs. The change was a matter of function before fashion.

-We will most likely go back to only one size for the 20” PK Loop & 20” Quadangle. Should we go with 21.25TT again? Or 21”? Or in between? We do these bikes in such limited quantities that it does not make sense for us to do 2 sizes.

Totally stoked over the possibility of an OM Flyer in cro-mo. Can't wait!

I agree with the point about contrasting color on ano parts BB, headset, etc.

Dan

Since I plan on building a collection of big rippers.. This is the one I'm most interested in.
But I think either way is fine... go with what ever you think is best. Just please keep the color and look retro. Chromo OM sounds GREAT!

-I think that the Big Ripper will change to Euro BB. What do you guys think of that?

I don't mind a euro BB on the Big Ripper at all.

A Chro-mo OM would be sweet! If it happens, stick to a OS color scheme.

I'm glad the retro's are only gonna come in one color per year. Makes it more special.

Damn you Lyons!!! I don't even have my 2010 bike yet... and now you've already got me thinking about how cool the 2011 one could/Will be.

Ha! Yeah, I guess I do have a tendency to dangle some carrots, huh!? Ha ha...

So on the Big Ripper change to Euro BB, I am thinking this will turn some other riders onto the Big Ripper. But I doubt it will turn too many away from it if we go to Euro BB. All good.

Todd,

Thank you for taking the forumites' suggestions to heart. Whatever you ultimately decide to do, I really appreciate that you're letting your customers participate in the process, and I know others feel the same way.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!

A cro-mo OM with front v-brakes? I'll order mine today!

You say "almost"... does that mean it was ever up for debate?



Ok I have been one of the ones who was pretty hard on you about this...Does this mean we will never see a company that while it has great bmx pedigree also has wide appeal get a collab ? (such as Vans)



hmmm interesting point.



Nooooooo! I guess I will just have to graft 990s on when I get mine.



This is the only thing that I really do not want see happen. I was really happy when you guys announced that the retros were going to start coming in 2 different sizes as I prefer a frame shorter than 21.25. While my new school bike is a 21" TT I have thought my next frame might be a 20.75 or even back to a 20.5. So looks like I will have to buy a 2k9 PK (I havent yet as the economy has hit me pretty hard) but I was waiting to see what colors came next year as I was not all that fond of this years gold for my personal ride ( I know it is a retro color just not my taste) So I guess if you are only going to support one TT size my vote would be 21", however I have to say (much to my own detriment I think) that most of the retro clientele seems to more racer influenced ( I ride mostly just park, street and some trails)and therefore they seem to prefer the long frames so...

Anyways thanks Todd for addressing my/our feedback, even though none of my suggestions are making the cut (/sadface) it is nice to know we are being heard and at least considered!

Happy T-day! Gobble Gobble!

landing gear forks:

i'm not quite sure about the build quality of the current landing gear forks, but i really need a new chromed fork and would love a landing gear, BUT ... i would want it to be as good and up to date as an odyssey race fork. do the current ones come with a cnc'd steerer tube and is the weight competitive? if not, it might be time to uptade the forks a bit.

I want to do a rootbeer, fat tube, alu. Quad with a Carlisle decal in a retro motif.

That's all I'm sayin' on that.

Todd, on the stock sprockets, I've lost that lovin' feeling.

You may want to do a search on old projector film wheels, current and past car wheel designs, and this link:

http://www.bikecult.com/works/chainwheel.html

Just for some inspiration.

Todd, first of all...you rip. Secondly, it's cool to see you at SE.
What I DO like about SE, is they (Fuji, or whomever) get that the brand rules, and they are being cool sprinkling the history/look around.
Cool.
The hipster fixies?
Well, not my cup of tea...but, like the Porsche Cayenne...it's money, and it funds the fun stuff.
I gave up on SE when I had #17 of 50 from Scott's limited line of Flovals in the early 90s that were BEAUTIFUL....well, true to form, the Aluminum started to creak with a vengance.
Never again...hate aluminum...and there isn't a bike in the SE line that works for me as a ridable 24".
Sold my OG polished and everything...just bummed. This was in the mid ninties.
THAT SAID....
I saw the SE rep in my local bike shop (Solano Ave Cyclery, Berkeley, Ca) Marty Wendt works there and is a fellow Kastan nut....well, I told the rep what I will now tell you.
4130.
IF you made a 4130 Floval....new rear-end, loop tail..what the hell ever (I'd prefer modern)...4130 with canti-mounts/ or my dream, DISCS...I'd be over the moon.
The OM in 4130? GREAT IDEA!! But...man, a Floval?!!!!
That's "I'm on my way to the tattoo shop for my SE tattoo!!" status.
Really.
I think making your more premium bikes available as F/F purchases makes sense. I would never buy a complete. I had to with my CroMo Redline 24 earlier this year, and the parts hit the recycling bin. (Okay, so I was forced to do a build for a little girl with the parts and a FE 24" off eBay)....it's realy wasteful to us guys who have our partslists worked-out, or more accurately, have the parts waiting to build the frame up.
So, the dreams are as follows...
24" 4130 Floval, euro BB- canti-mounts/or better yet, DISC MOUNTS!!!
26" 4130 OM...any set-up, canti-mounts
and lastly...
29" 4130 Euro BB, Disc mounts in chrome.....that would kill people. (think the limited Cook 29")
All available in F/F purchase point. (I'd pay more to not have to bring those parts home)

Thanks for listening...and I really feel that SE is in the spirit. It's tough that it's not USA made....but, I have a small US only made skateboard wheel company...and let's say, I don't make much, okay....ANY money. I am just glad to see the brand flourishing. GOOD FOR YOU GUYS!

Those all sound like great ideas.

I would buck some of the other preferences in this thread and say go with a euro BB on the Chro-mo OM Flyer. I want to be able to run my Saints (I know - not very retro of me).

Why do old school guys want to change traditional aluminum frames into chro-moly ones.

I've heard the "chro-moly PK" request a few times.

Now a chro-moly Floval?

In my opinion PK's and Flovals would cease being their namesakes if they were made of anything but aluminum.

If you want a chro-moly 24" cruiser, maybe we should ask Todd to bring back the Mauler.

+1
A PK and a Floval are definately not, if they are chromo. That was part of the mystic for me with them when I was young. They seemed so exotic.

22" tt with a really low bb short rear end CHROME quad angle in 20 and 24"

Well, for me it is that aluminum just doesn't last. The way it rides is janky...and when I build a good bike I want to enjoy it for many years...not a quick season. 4130 Rides smoother, has better metal memory, doesn't CREAK, and won't fail like aluminum. I have CroMo bikes that are thirty years young, still riding like pups. As far as the Mauler...."Eh"...no real SE graceful beauty...just a cookie-cutter frame IMHO.
I LOVED my Floval...but, was DASHED when...(of course) it started to creak in the BB. Nothing will fix that. No cup insertion variations, loc-tite, shims, nothing is going to bring back stressed aluminum. CroMo? Shoooooot, that tubing will take a whuppen for decades.
It's the LOOK of the Floval that will make it Floval...with improved feel, and a much longer lifetime. As far as the 'exotic-ness' of aluminum....well, I am 42 years old, and have fabbed a lot of metal pieces over the years...and I'd give up a Jr.High blush for a better riding, longer lasting bike anytime. I think it's like realizing that fast-food is garbage, and reaching for that first apple your mom didn't make you eat.
Oh, and I second the 22" tt and euro BBs with the short rear-ends. MANUAL HEAVEN!

I'm not debating whether chro-mo is better than aluminum. I prefer it, too.

It's just PK to me says aluminum. And since a Floval is just a 24" PK, well I guess I feel it should stay aluminum, too.

I'm not saying SE shouldn't build a chro-mo race cruiser, but call it somethin' else. And if you want a chro-mo 24" retro cruiser, there is always the Quad.

Yep, Just like OM Flyer says Chro-mo Todd, let's see the return of the Chro-mo OM Flyer for 2011.

Todd, i think someone mentioned something about an str-1 frame design. in the other thread about the holy grail being found, the OM posted a pic, of what looked to be the same type of CAD drawing you posted just before the 07 quads and PK's came out. can you make any comment on this?

Todd sorry i just found this thread....I own probably 10 SE bikes most new retro's and all of them customized so I feel qualified to make some statements...

-offer the Big Ripper in a frame set only...big ole' american bb is what i prefer because i like to use colored profile hop up kits.

-make a 29" quad so my BR will not be lonely

-ok with OM going to chromo...keep it american bb

-make a retro floval

-DO NOT put canti brakes mounts on ANY front fork PLEASE. lets all be honest we are not screaming around so fast we need both brakes to stop are we?? i do not see myself doing any front endo's or bunny hops! bike just looks cleaner without front brakes

-keep the colors coming....

- ps my bike shop just called AND MY $100 WRAP OM is sitting on thier dock!! yippie going to build it up tonight.

Euro b.b. on all retro rippers and quads.

Todd, please make an STR-1, for under $10,000. That way we can all have one!

Bright orange and white for the 20" quad, like a friend of mine had when I was kid.

Lighter cranks on the Lil' Rippers. Both of my boys have them. Let me say that the cranks probably weigh half of the total weight of the bike. I put ACs on both.

While they're working down there, a Euro BB would help lighten it up a ton too. Thanks

2011 Looptail PK Ripper candy blue frame and black Skyway Tuffs, Chrome 20" Looptail Quadangle with blue Tuffs. Please no SE cutout in the rear looptail dropout, ok in the other models but not the looptail retro IMO.

I just want a baby blue Landing Gear fork to match my retro Quad.

Todd,, please bring back the Quadangle Freestyler !!

Yes, I'm talking about the one where the seatstays are welded exactly at the toptube & seattube junction . Then move the 990 mounts to the under side of the seatstays so that you can run a smaller front sprocket ! Single or twin downtube that's ok but it looks cooler with one big single downtube & keep the standing gear together as well .

It would be so easy to offer a fork with bosses as an OPTION. Not everyone races their 26 - in fact I'd wager that the vast majority don't.

Todd,
Thanks for reaching out here,,,
I have a shop, I sell SE bikes and and SE P&A, and focus primarily on BMX.
The direction SE is going is great,, getting even better in 2010.
Shaving weight is what the consumers wanted most, and SE has done a great job with that.
I know the economy dictates what is being offered, and I applaude SE for what they have accomplished during these struggling times.

As a dealer, I am listening to My customers also.
The new sizing on the Team ripper was a nice surprise to me, and I already have customers pre-ordering them, so the changes made are getting immediate results.
I have been asked alot lately if SE is going to make a Junior/Expert cruiser? I seen your comment that there is not enough interest to produce these. My suggestion would be maybe to do just a limited run of them offered in frame/fork sets only. or maybe a limited run of the floval in a shorter "Mid" version (kind of an Expert XL).
Like I said, SE's progress has been great,,, and we're seeing awesome SE cruisers in 24" 26" and 29" versions,,,, but there's a lot of little guys and girls who are racing cruiser class or want to get started, and there's not much out there to choose from for these smaller riders (Future big guys). Interest is low because of the economy, But it will continue to decline if there is nothing new and innovative to offer. With not much competition for that targeted consumer, it could be a winner and the beginning of a new model for SE. I would love for SE to create interest in this part of the cruiser market.

The SE colors have always been great, I know a lot of guys change the colors as soon as they purchase, so you're never going to satisfy everyone on that point,,, so just keep the colors cool as always. Talk to Jesse, let him come up with a custom color (His flames are cool)

Again, thanks for allowing us all to take part in the creative process. If even one idea comes out of this to improve the already great SE products line, then it is well worth it. This is a great venue for ideas on the retro frames, probably the best. As for the racing line, the guys who race, have kids who race, or are active in the current racing scene should be chiming in more here too.