I'm NOT flaming Rod Beckering but he has made more than one claim or statement like this about different SE frames and just expects everyone to buy it since he rode for SE. Obviously he was wrong. There are known pics of a brown one (maybe its this brown one) and the baby blue one, both with Stu riding them. That's already more than "the only str-1 ever made."


I now know who Lenny is and how involved in BMX he was but does he have any idea how huge this discovery is to the community? I'm not talking financially either.

I wasn't talking design, and as far as I am concerned the quad wasn't ground breaking. It still used the same angles as everyone else was using at the time. It just looked different. The Cooks were inovators, built in chain tensioners, threadless fork/stem etc.

That quad may have won some races and maybe a title or two but it still wouldn't be (even in the BMX world) as close to as significant as an independant race car builder knocking off Ferrari. The racing history of that specific Cobra Daytona (#CSX2287) is imense!

Maybe I'm just partial, I used to work for Bob Bondurant


The Daytona Cobra Coupes Chassis # CSX2287 - The Prototype

The very first prototype Cobra Daytona Coupe. The only coupe that was built entirely at the Shelby American race shop in Venice, California. It has an extensive race history, competing at Daytona, Sebring, Reims, Spa Francorchamps, Oulton Park TT, and Tour de France. It was driven by Dave MacDonald, Bob Holbert, Jo Schlesser, Phil Hill, Jochen Neerpasch, Innes Ireland, Andre Simon, Maurice Dupeyron, Bob Johnson, Tom Payne.

Chassis CSX 2287 won the GT race at the 12 Hours of Sebring in March 1964 with Dave MacDonald and Bob Holbert behind the wheel. The race at Sebring was the first time that a Cobra Daytona Coupe won the GT III category in an FIA race!

At Le Mans in June 1964, the car was finished in Viking Blue metallic very distinctive white painted front fenders. The drivers were Chris Amon and Jochen Neerpasch. They led the GT class until the car was disqualified in the 10th hour for an illegal jump start due to battery and alternator failure.

This coupe ended its racing career by setting 25 USAC/FIA world records at the Bonneville Salt Flats, Utah, in November 1965. It was driven by Craig Breedlove, Bobby Tatroe and Tom Greatorex.

This particular Daytona Coupe has been missing for over 30 years. Recently, it was "found" again. The story reads as another unique chapter in the Shelby cars history. Click here to read more about this rare and long missing coupe.

Chassis # CSX2299

#5 Daytona Coupe This was the second Coupe built and the first completed at Carrozzeria Gransport (Italian for "Grand Sport Coachbuilders") in Modena, Italy. It competed in nine FIA races (LeMans, Reims, Goodwood Tourist Trophy, Tour de France, Sebring, Oulton Park TT, LeMans, Enna, Daytona), won four times (LeMans '64, Tourist Trophy '64, Daytona '65, Sebring '65), and driven by Dan Gurney, Bob Bondurant, Maurice Trintignant, Bernard de St. Auban, Jo Schlesser, Hal Keck, Jack Sears and Dick Thompson. At LeMans in 1964, drivers Gurney & Bondurant, took First Place in the GT III Class. It was painted Viking Blue.

Dan Gurney in 1965 driving this Cobra Daytona Coupe took the World Manufacturers Championship from Ferrari.

Chassis # CSX 2300

This was the only time that a Cobra Daytona Coupes was painted with a white body finish with blue and red stripes. Chassis CSX 2300 was leased from Alan Mann by Ford of France for this race only. It competed in the national “Tri-Colore” of France. Well known French drivers Andre Simon and Jo Schlesser drove this coupe at the very tough Nurburgring course. The car finished 3rd in the GT III category, and 12th overall. After the race, this white coupe was returned to Alan Mann Racing in England where it was repainted in the official Guardsman Blue metallic and white stripe of the 1965 Shelby American team.


Chassis # CSX2601

This was the fourth Coupe built and the third completed at Carrozzeria Gransport. It competed in eight FIA races in 1965 (Daytona, Sebring, Monza, Spa, Nürburgring, LeMans, Reims, Enna), won four times in GT III class, at Monza, Nürburgring, Reims, Enna), and driven by Bob Johnson, Tom Payne, Bob Bondurant, Allen Grant, (German) Jochen Neerpasch and Jo Schlesser (an outstanding French driver who was killed in an accident at the French Grand Prix in 1968).

At Reims, 3-4 July 1965, drivers were Bondurant & Schlesser. It was painted Guardsman Blue. They won the GT III Class. It was at Reims on July 4th that this car earned the points needed to secure the 1965 World Manufacturers Championship.


Chassis # CSX2602

This was the fifth Coupe built and the fourth completed at Carrozzeria Gransport. It competed in six 1965 races (Daytona, Sebring, Monza, Spa, Nürburgring and LeMans) and was driven by Rick Muther, John Timanus, Lew Spencer, Jim Adams, Phil Hill, Jack Sears, John Whitmore, Peter Sutcliffe and Peter Harper. The #59 Swiss Red Coupe was campaigned in 1965 by Scuderia Filipinetti. Prior to the Le Mans race, chassis CSX 2602 was also raced at Daytona (driven by Rick Muther and John Timanus) in 1965, Sebring (driven by Lew Spencer, Jim Adams, and Phil Hill) in 1965, Monza (driven by Jack Sears and Sir John Whitmore) in 1965, and Nurburgring (driven by Jack Sears and Frank Gardner) also in 1965.

The #59 Daytona Coupe with British drivers Sutcliffe & Harper, ran in the distinctive Red & White Swiss colors only for the '65 LeMans event June 19-20, 1965.

So if this frame is the one Rod is talking about does he get it back?



I see many questions and arguments coming over this one Brian

Sorry I out grew cars a while ago. Like I said, its all personl opinion.
However BOTH things here should be in a museum, not in some guys house.

Lenny knows the value of this frame historically and monetarly. He is not somebody who is out to make a quick buck, he has a history in this sport that goes back to the beginning as a racer, promoter,
as well as teaching clinics and training future pro's. This outing of the frame and the reactions to it are incredible to say the least.

The only thing I'm certain of is that this will be the most watched ebay auction in bmx histoy to date! (my money's on Jeff Haney...) Otherwise, time to get the paperwork started for that 2nd mortgage!

"Rockford 2010 Survivor Class winner"

Pretty cool that it surfaced. I agree w/ Towne, it's hideous.

Maybe it never turned up before because it is hot? Was a police report filed on the stolen one?

Brian is right about this. Not to flame anyone either but just about ALL those old SE guys have their own idea about the things that really happened at SE. STU told me at Rockford that my JU-6 was really a mini, not a real JU-6. I wanted to laugh but how do you argue with a legend. I just left it alone. Nevermind Utterback fixed it himself and confirmed its authenticity.

Anyway, it pleases me to no end to see this real STR-1 emerge, its on par with capturing Bigfoot or Loch Ness. As a big SE fan and collector, I feel at ease knowing there is finally a surfaced real STR-1 in good shape, original paint and everything. Wow...just wow.

Sorry but I have to say that I havent seen any pictures of bigfoot or the lochness in any magazines posing for a picture, the str has been documented in magazines though, so everybody knew it was real at one point, right?

You're not telling me that Bigfoot & Nessie aren't real are you?
Great to see this frame surface. Love to see it end up in the Hall of Fame.
-Bill

Totally a mini.

CompIV, Im saying the modern day existance of either have been in question and a source of debate and now a real STR-1 surfaces, just an analogy...and yes Bigfoot and Loch Ness really exist, lol.

Mikko...dude..., lol.

WOW !!!!! Thats the coolest thing I've seen since getting into the hobby....

Pretty sure the lucky cat that ends up with this priceless piece of history will have no intention of repainting it "at least I hope not" , but I'd sure as heck would love to see it built up Stu style...

How cool would it be to see Stu taking a light lap around the track on that bike ???

Was that STR 1 built before the JU6's? Wonder why it has the flat brake bridge, which would have come from Bill Bastians stamping die, most likely. I think the pics show Stu's to have a round one.....the BB gusset is interesting as well. Especially, since it seems like it would serve no use to alleviate the BB cradle swing issue.

It would be cool to see a pic of someone BITD riding a frame with these characteristics!!!! Where is this frame currently located?? Could it be the one spotted by (the now infamous) CruiserKing many years ago in a bike shop in Calif.??? That frame supposedly went into a dumpster when the shop moved, closed, or got cleaned. Or could it be one of the handful that have been mocked up over the past 10 years and changed hands??

I do hope it is real....though!!!!!

CompIV, nobody disputes that this frame existed. There are pics of Stu and others riding these frames. According to the OM and Mike D (from what I've read on their comments) there were maybe 6 built and they were all thought to have been destroyed, thus the "unicorn" status of the frame.

As far as this being Rods, Rod was saying he had the one Stu rode which would have made it blue or tan. This one is obviously brown. Also, it was stated that Lenny bought it from its ORIGINAL owner who rode for SE during the invention of this frame. Not Rods. It seems cut and dried that this is with its legitimate rightful owner..

Alex, did you get my email about the JU?

Yes i did Brian, check your inbox...

Actually, one pic does look like Stu had a blue one with a flat brake bridge, but it had a big globby weld sorta lookin' thing holding the rear of BB shell to the rear portion of the downtubes/chainstays.

Isn't there a pic that exists of a brown one with blue "Cycle Pro" forks floating around, Plus I think Stu's Earliest frame was raw un-painted????

Also, the welds on this frame that has surfaced look really pretty nice.....look to be of Cro. Mo. quality and a tight loop.

Don't the bends on the chainstays behind the BB look pretty sharp and kinda sophisticated based on photos of the protos and production models.

so your saying unicorns at one time DID exist?


I would say this is more like finding the titanic, we all knew it really existed but thought it would never be found.

Good comparison compIV

Greg, yes there is the pic you speak of but I cant seem to load any pics on this site. Give me a minute.

This pic has a wider loop and the downtubes/chaistays look to be of smaller dia.. The frame appears taller too. Also look at the headtube junction.....the angles and spacing between the tubes seems different.

But, there were more than 1.

This is an amazing thread! Here are the two pictures I have of the brown and blue STR-1 - feel free to download and use for computer wallpaper!!
;-)

Can't the OM answer some of the questions that are still lingering?

I just hope it's not screwed to the wall at a Fridays lol

Wow. Totally insane.

That frame should NOT be sold on ebay, but donated (or at least loaned) to a worthy BMX museum.

That would be a given, and would probably show up in a Brinks truck, but why would this frame be worth anymore than JU's personal and from what I understand 1st JU-6?



By the number 1 plate I would assume that is Stu behind the bike?

Stu's STR-1 that I saw in person with my own eyes (right up the street from where I type this) at the Plainwell BMX track in 1979 was unpainted and had the crazy prototype Shimano cranks with 34-12 gearing. This was also during the "Cycle Pro forks era". It was so cool to see. I have super 8 footage of Stu racing that day, but he was riding a PK ripper that was to be raffled off. This bike is so significant as Stu rode it at the end of his SE era, before signing to a "major label" (Redline). BMX was so interesting then, with innovations like this coming to light and pure style in effect. Just look at that photo above (on the blue STR). I miss those days.

Cheez, I guess because we have always known the whereabouts of Jeff Utterbacks frame...at his house. It was also sold to the public, by several hundred. Here we have a frame we didnt know if one even existed anymore, 6 were made and none we available to the public. Those reasons alone make this find so interesting and signnificant.

Greg, It is noted that Seth has had this frame since he rode for SE and Lenny is the only other person to own it and he got it right from Seth. That all seems pretty solid.

The JU6 and BD3 were first and then the STR1 program started. The parts for the STR frames would not have come out of Bastians shop, as he only built SE's alloy frames. The steel frames were contracted to Accessories Plus and then Trophy Products.

CruiserKing, pff.......enough said.

BTW, on a related note. Jeff Utterback is loaning his complete personal JU6 to be displayed at the HOF. Very cool stuff.

Got it, that makes alot more sense, thanks. So this frame is far different than the production Quads of the era then? I was never big into SE

Being the number of first frames was six it would make Stu's personal STR-1 a horse of the same color as that of the Prototype Cobra Daytona. Although the frame will never fetch that kind of coin

Just a question though, This frame without origin verification and a certificate of authenticity, technically has no more historic, or monitary value than any other Quad of the same vintage.

Remember all those poser mild steel quads that were showing up on ebay a few years ago? I'm not trying to dispute anyone's claims or call anyone a liar, just asking a question. What would keep anyone else from saying that they own one of the six?

There are no other quads of this vintage, it is before the quad. The mild steel quads are very early quads, not sure why you would call them poser? They also do not have the tubes running under the bb.

Brian, I guess I am just holding out hope that an old photo will pop up of Seth or someone else on a frame that matches the charactersitcs of that one

Isn't this the actual frame?

Chuck,

Are you sure you are not thinking of the mild steel PK Ripper Looptails that were on eBay a few years back?

I completely understand. Makes sense.

Ken, I wonder how many of the six were brown.

Poser quad; see response to Ken




Nope, no mistaking they were quad clones, mild steel and all. They were being built by some guy in So Cal. From what I understand he was trying to pass a couple of them off as the real deal until he got pressed by some SE experts.

He may have been the same guy doing the Rippers.

There were a couple references to him and his auctions on the forums back in 04-05. Also some posts on OS and the museum.

I'll have to run a search.

Jessie Vargas or Sal ?

Man did those names ring some bells, I think Jesse, but I'm not positive

LOL I think poser was the wrong word, faux quad would have made more sense to the casual passerby...
but now that I get what your getting at, I can see where your coming from.

Sal was making them and Jessie Vargas (VRP) was selling them...That was the story posted a few years back.

Here's the rest of the pics from Lenny's FB page. I'm not friends with him on FB but someone who is, posted these on OS and I didnt figure he'd mind.....

Quote - Just a question though, This frame without origin verification and a certificate of authenticity, technically has no more historic, or monitary value than any other Quad of the same vintage.

This frame is significantly different than the production mild steel and chromoly Quads of the same era, theres your historic value. The fact that it came from Seth and Lenny...theres your certificate of authenticity.

Damn that thing had to be hard as heck to fabricate, especially if it was hand bent. From a cost-effective-mass-production-in-the-70's standpoint, that thing would have been a nightmare to produce in any kind of quantity.

Stay tuned tomorrow for a Podcast interview with Lenny on this topic.

Do you have something you want to ask? Please post them on the thread below.

http://www.vintagebmx.com/community/index....wtopic=27039351

Best,

M

Word of mouth? not exactly a certificte of authenticity. I would take signed and notorized affidavits from from all the players involved when this frame was designed and built.

I would have to say the "word of mouth" between the two owners and their known history with S.E. is about as iron clad as it gets.

Not worth anything, but I was a punk kid who also rode support for Scot. I had one of the first 10 JU6 and an STR1. Scot Sent it and it was a horrible riding frame. It was like a spagetti bike. I went back to my JU6. Both are floating somewhere in Portland. I had to chuckle that I was in the moto with Stu above.... its so cool this surfaced. Lenny has success. Why would it not be real? Even if it's $5k or $10k? Big deal. Nobody surfaces and creates a faux frame for $10k... I say let the market speak and sell it! Be fun to watch.

hey Ben , what color was your frame ??? any chance you have a pic of it ???