Can't think of anyone better suited to save a sinking ship than it's worst critic....
I know a lot of NBL faithful really don't like what he has to say, but if you remove your emotional feelings from the discussion and just listen, you'll find he really does have some good ideas.

He's got my vote.....

So did Hitler.
I was not one emailing to get that dum-arse off here... but I will say, he represents the only kind of person in this world who I despise. People who look down on others and use sarcasm to belittle them, make fun of them, and otherwise try to show them howmuch better what he beleives is.
I would punch him in the face with little provocation. No emotions... jsut "oh, you are snicerdoodle? wham."

Who are you describing, yourself? Woody, you are just like that.... LOL..... So much for the "turn the other cheek".....


I find it funny how on some threads it is ok for others to have a right to an opinion, but not all..... Oh well.... Whatever.....


Buntster

ps. The slots are already picked for the board, most of them are going to be voted right back in, kinda like congress, we want change and all but we keep sending the ones who can really bring change right back into the position.....

Like his views or not, at least he never threatened to punch someone in the face. Oh and WTF is a "snicerdoodle"

Woody sounds like a tool I'll take SCHMICK for $100.00

its like high school all over again. he said something mean and i use violence instead of maturity to solve my problems.

Finally something I agree with you on.... It is the end of the world as I know it.... LOL....


Buntster

While Woody may be edgy with his point, I think he makesa good point that just his presence on the board would cause the faithful to votewith their feet.

All emotion removed, all thoughts of hw others would feel, I have my concerns that e really never wanted the NBL to succeed, to think so is absurd. He says not enogh tracks/races out west, make te offer to bring him those races he didn't want them there.

That sounds to me like
1) He wouldn't want the job r anything to do with the NBL
2)If he did run for the board his motives would be to create mischief

Don't get me wrong, while sometimes I didn't agree with him other times his point made sense. But here's where the problem lies, Only the NBL Haters liked the presentation the NBL faithful take it as offensive to to them, the ones that count he is not what they want...its pretty common sense.

Its no different than me coming to the track and commenting to you that your kid keeps losing races because he sucks real bad..." If your kid didn't suck so much he might be good, but he isn't so he sucks. Wow, is he coming back next week to suck again? I sure hope so. Oh, its not that he has any business on the track because he sucks so much, but I hope he comes back again next week to suck some more. afterall, its really entertaining to talk bad about him". If this thought is lost on you its because you're a BMX Politician of the opposite sanction ideology and your bmx political ideology is blinding you to how people really want to be treated.

Oh and for the record, I race both sanctions, lately more ABA, and no I am not blinded by NiBLer love at all. If you actually know me you will know what I mean when I say that I def see faults...and if you know this you know I have valid reasons for feeling there is some serious fault, and it sure as heck isn't because I read it on the internets. Oh no, my opinions both good and bad come from both good and bad experiences. I just don't jump on the internet tough guy bandwagon and play the on-line bully game. To be truthful I just want to see them succeed. I have friends in both sanctions.

Oh, for the record, I don't dislike/hate Schmick even though he's over the top when on-line. He really does make some good points and somehow I think I'd probably like him if I met him. Heck, I bet he's fun at a party!

The title of this thread made me spit up my drink, LOL. yeah that is going to happen.

i don't know schmick, but i like that guy... and he had very valid points usually
and like Al said, i bet in any situation.. especially when alcohol may be present, i'm sure he's a blast

Click to view attachment

I too, don't know the guy personally. But here's my thing. I may not always agree with what he says, but I never have to guess what he's thinking, nor am I left wondering if there is some underlying message. Blunt and straight to the point, I have the utmost respect for a person like that.

it would definitely spice things up a bit wouldn't it....

A snickerdoodle is a cookie with cinnamon and suger on top. Very tasty when dipped in milk.

I don't know him, he does have some valid points at times but its all in the delivery, which is usually off. Just my opinion.

Once you start talking nazi's and punching you're pretty much done.

Here's a link to explain eurohero's pic for those wondering.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

"The term Godwin's law can also refer to the tradition that whoever makes such a comparison is said to "lose" the debate."

I'm Nate will debate the Godwin Law as well. hahahahah..... It's just what he does.

Nah I disagree with Godwin...He should be chained to crawl space under an abandoned house, starved, kicked and beaten on a regular bases until he admits he's a Nazi! Okay, I hope none of you rawket scientists here take me seriously........

I don't know, I agree to a point, but I can see how this type of thing goes too far in the other direction. The Hitler thing. Also, I'm thinking that if Schmick had slammed the ABA instead of the NBL none of you would really care about Woody's statement anyway. Heck, the complaints against Schmick that would have likely ensued would have probably gotten him banned much sooner....BMX Politicians, You guys are way too funny!

Bill Maher comes to mind. I don't disagree with some of what Maher says, but he's so miserable and negative that I ultimately don't care what he thinks. One note Charlie.

One can have good ideas without being a jerk about it. I'd rather lose out on a few 'good ideas' and have one less jerk to deal with in my life.

Dude, are you serious? You always tell me in person that this on here is all in fun, not to worry, just joking, etc... and then you post that?
wow.
Never said he didn't have a right to an opinion. I have a right to an opinion, I just can't scream it from the corner at schoochildren while using vulgarity every other word... doesn't matter how right I am.

You guys must not have ventured much on Vintage... He was offensive in about everything he posted. and guess what, he and I thougt alike on a whole lot of political stuff and other stuff... and yeah, sometimes he was funny. But like I said, his online personality was attrocious.

Case in point:
"Look I understand how many people have been programmed to believe in the invisible man in the clouds. Many of you were stuck in a dress and before you even knew what was going on you had a suspected child molester attempt to drown you so that when you do die you can go live in the magic castle in the clouds."
yeah, really awesome there. I can with 100% honesty say I have NEVER posted anything remotely like this.
If you think so, Richard, we have a problem.
Here is another gem:
"pounding the sky-fairy story into a childs head before the bones in the skull have even fused together and then telling that kid that to question those fairy-tales is wrong and will guarantee an eternity of pain in a horrible place is brainwashing, now that we have established what is and isnt brainwashing you can get back to propogating your lies and boogie-man stories on soft headed children who are as of yet, unable to think with reason"

by the way, I didn't threaten him with violence... lol. I said he is the kind of person who I would be able to do that to.... with provocation, and that being little...
eh, whatever. I am back out to dig....

cool stuff

EXACTLY...well said Al. For those of you who miss his (Schmick) constant negativity, you can get your daily dose on bmxtruth.com...he's been going strong over there lately with his usual "your kid sucks" comments as well as his endless beating of the dead horse (i.e. NBL comments, etc.). The NBL doesn't hate the west coast any more than Lowe's Home Improvement stores does...they both just happen to originate in the east and expanded/grew from there. I do think the NBL could spread out their schedule more geographically, but if I lived on the west coast, I would thoroughly enjoy all that the ABA offers out there and I would definitely not take it personally that another sanction doesn't cater to me as well. Schmick takes wadded panties to a whole new level and his kid isn't exactly a Connor Fields (super star expert, show stopper, future pro, etc.). My understanding is that his kid is involved in other sports as well and takes time off from bmx as a result. Nothing wrong with that...actually that's probably the best approach considering the talent we all see walk away from the sport (due to burnout?) way too early (Billy Russell and Brandon Murphy for example).

One thing I notice (and I'm not alone...it's obviously as sunlight in Alaska) is that those who hope to "save" the NBL DON'T wish bad things for the ABA...but A LOT of you on here who are ABA faithful openly hope for the worst for the NBL. It's like you don't just hope your kid does well, but you also hope some other kid breaks his leg even though he's not even in your kid's class. I think everyone, including myself, Al, Woody, etc. acknowledges that the ABA is a better organization...so why can't you just enjoy the 200+ moto nationals the ABA is pulling these days and stop hoping the next plane crashes in a huge ball of fire?

+1. ABA IS a better ORGANIZATION. handles itself better, makes better decisions, etc, etc. That is awesome, and BMX needs it. My personal beef, or dislike for lack of a better word, is that 1. They aint around me much. National-wise, at least.
and 2. Not fond of the style, mentality, etc. of the races. Their are different vibes, I like the NBL one better. This really has nothing to do with the Sanctions organization itself. More to do with transfer system, riding mentality, Speed over style, tracks, what have you... pretty much a personal preference, I would say.

And I do agree with Lee's synopsis. Most of the sanction war threads seem to be one group trying to force the other group to say everything about them is better. There are plenty of anti-NBL posts, and plenty of defense posts on the other side.
We get it. You love the sanction you race in. So do we. And posting negatively about anything and everything you can, seeing the negative in even the positive stuff, aint gonna make us hate 'em... So why do it??

Sometimes I really don't get it.

Great post Lee.. I could not say it better myself... And for anyone who still needs thier dose of Schmick he post over at bmxtruth under "Mike Litoris"

Yep I admit I think the ABA is the better, stronger sanction...I think the NBL is taking big steps to improve but they also suffer from bad decisions that are impeding the progress....and I won't go into it but frankly I am pretty P.O.ed at the NBL for very good reasons right now, but that's not for Internets drama. Just know that I am not blind, but I am a rider first, not sanctionist.

All that said, I still want them to succeed, I still want my NBL racing friends to be happy racing NBL/format. I also believe that the sanction war is nothing but BMX politics and to side one way or the other makes you more of a BMX politician than a rider and your sanction is your party and/or the basis of your ideology. I understand folks who have been burned and the NBL has done some crazy things in that regard over the years which causes some of you to vote with your feet...That is the beauty of free enterprise, so be it.

BMX politicians are funny people. They prioritize politics/sanctionist ideology over actually riding...That is why I think one sanction won't change anything, Politicians within BMX will just find something else to politic over and cause more animosity. Just my opinion.

Mostly I would say just enjoy riding, if you want to get political go vote or run for some government office...or run for the NBL board, the local track committee and make your difference. Otherwise just ride your bike and have fun.

Oh well C-yall later. I got a CX race to go to.

EDIT: One more thing. Its okay if you are a BMX politician if that's what you like. But if you think slamming and insulting everyone is selling your point of view your silly, you only preach to your quier...Hostility alludes to Fascism in your ideology to most folks. That said why sign on for abuse?

V/r,
Al Ferri

Great post, Al.

Al, first you are very right to be P.O.ed, to which it really stinks.... But, you have earned my respect as to have been keeping it off the message boards for now..... But, I think it might help out one day to show how the system does work and for who.....


Buntster

Schmick in would be one of the great media hacks of all time.

But mostly: I don't understand what it is you guys are trying to save. It's like someone who keeps putting duct-tape on a worn-out couch because it's the couch they're used to.

Then they post how BMX needs to progress.

You're trying to save an administrative model; you're trying to save a political model (that you made political) that's costing BMX hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. You do this 'cause you like duct tape.

Yeah sure, "Elvis is (this)" "Elvis is (that)" "Schimick is (this and that)" and the others who would dare assail your comfort zone are equally (this that and some other).

It doesn't matter, the facts stand where they stand. You're frothing at the mouth (Godwin LOL) to keep idiots in their job. And while we're engaging in personal attacks: What does that make you?

Please, please God, show me the error of my logic. Explain to me how you're doing something more than keeping a failed administrative and political model in play. Please; I'm begging here. Make me understand how it's a good idea to dump a crapton of money down the well, how it's useful to dump that crapton of money in order to keep people who don't have the sense to file a lawsuit like humans in control. Please.

Please.

Do it. You won't.

Here, case in point: NBL gets UCI/Olympics (the dream, achieved!).

Blows it up, absolutely screws it into the ground. Uses every machination at its control to keep ABA out of the mix.

Fails, utterly.

ABA takes it over. Now we got a system, BMX on TV, legitimacy, sponsors.

And it gave it up because it wasn't worth the money. But the reason to bring it in? Because this was the dream. The dream! The goal! Achieved!

Screw it up into the ground, utter, epic, fail.

Seriously. Short bus BMX right there. Why are we trying to keep this in place? What makes BMX better with this in place?

You know, assuming that BMX is meant to be more than a tree-house club.

E,
It's like I said before.. The definition of insanity...

But, here is something to think about...Even small 100 moto races a $50 a rider still bring in a good chunck of cash... Maybe there is a reason some people want to keep their ship afloat as long as possible....

Brian

What administrative model are you talking about? The non-profit organization in general, or the NBL specifically?

NBL specifically. Everyone's all "save the NBL" about this thing, and I'm trying to figure out what it is they're trying to save. A database?

Surely they're not embracing the management which got us to this place. Surely they're not embracing a fortune going out to insurance, and now a big chunk of cash going to lawyers.

Holy crapolla your on a roll today! EXcellent, thought provoking posts. So much so you've got me fired up about this stuff & I told myself I would refrain from posting my thoughts these topics........THANKS!

I'm out!!!

b.

I can't speak for the others but for me its not about us saving the NBL, its about the NBL saving the NBL. To be more specific, free enterprise, sink or swim.

If they swim we will have two good products to choose from.

If they sink single sanction theory will prevail but it will prevail More purely with less animosity. Here it gets more complicated but bear with me.

1) If the NBL just rolls over and says okay we give up, there's a lot of bad feelings No matter how many/few you think will stay it will be tense and all tracks will likely get rolled into this. So many of your customers, riders and tracks start off hating...this is not healthy

2) If they try to succeed but fail, you can only blame the NBL. No need to hate the ABA free enterprise did its job in this scenario too. Also, to be honest the ABA would have the option to take the tracks in that it wants too. That may sound mean spirited but to the victor goes the spoils...why take on a liability with a poor performance record or known hostile leadership?

Again, let it fight for its life. If it succeeds the product will be better, if not, then the horse is dead, dismount. Sorry, but I like our capitolist business model and loathe socialist concepts and I don't apologize for it. If you want one sanction...earn it. Otherwise go participate in what you mock. goto a race where everybody gets a trophy because the please rol over for us mentality is asking for a gift...blood in battle purifies victory...just make it their blood.

If it happens, this would be the most likely way, IMO... There isn't really a KO punch the ABA could deliver to the NBL. And if they did, the backlash from the NBL diehards would be HUGE. Realistically, I think the ABA will continue to try and keep improving their program while keeping an eye in what's happening in Ohio...

Brian

I agree Brian and I think everybody else knows this is the only way too. The ABA has done quite well by just focusing on their product in the last few years. If you build a better mouse trap you will sell more mousetraps.

(I had to point out the comparasion and it is a good one)

And catch more mice (riders) in the end.... Very well put Al....


Buntster

Schmick on NBLs board? LOL!


Tha ABA needs to start trying to convert the IL NBL track operators

Thanks Richard, Somehow I feel more eloquent now!

Here's what you do, and save face: NBL calls ABA (due to the legal situation, they'd need to be the ones to pick up the phone) (bet the other guys would take the call) and suggests working something out so the sport isn't out a double-nut on insurance every year. Not-for-profit side becomes in charge of charitable events, scholarships, Race for Life, that sort of thing. For-profit side is charged with administration.

Both sides now have the other side to answer to, so there's less of this tyranny of the majority which created the current situation.

The sport stops pumping out close to half-a-mil per year to support duplicate efforts.

Win.

Look, guys, this thing as it is now is not good for anybody. It's not good for the sport. Nothing, it's not good for anything.

Again: There's no competition! You go to your local track, its sanctioned you get a membership. That's hardly competition.

What do I got to do here? How do I have to say it? BMX's competition is not BMX! Those of you who believe so are creating conflict where none seems to exist. You're arguing over the existing rider base and nothing, nothing, could do more to keep the sport niche-sized than doing such a thing.

You argue it's like hamburgers: It's not, BMX is not a commodity. You argue that without it there's no check and balance in the marketplace, there is, how long do you think it would take for a sanction to form if a vacuum is created? If whatever comes out on top of this thing doesn't re-double its efforts to grow the sport, to bring in sponsors and do all that things which go toward being a useful sanction it will fail. It really is that simple.

The argument "we need the comp" has the attendant clause "we need to dump hundreds of thousand of dollars into duplicate efforts," and boys, it ain't that big a sport -- and it never will be while we're just chasing our tail here.

The competition? The competition just racked up a crapton of lawyers bills, raised costs to members and cut back on member benefits, and blew up the Olympics thing? That competition? The other side of the aisle has all this stuff going on, television, track promotion freebies, Olympics, Olympic training center, outside sponsors, etc etc. That's not a competition, unless your idea of competition is seeing someone beat bloody.

That's a system propping up something in the flail mode. That's GT giving me a full factory ride because its AA riders need competition. That's a ton of money chasing after a dime.

But it ain't competition.

It sounds to me like free enterprise is working just fine. Be patient, your dreams may come true fairly soon.

Otherwise, I find your merger concept of running a profit/non profit business model as a balance and check system to have tons of merit, It very well could work...I just wish I had the same faith that they'd all hammer that out.

As for the GT hook up ya got goin on, I'm real jealous!!!...I'm so jealous that from now on I'm going to spell it "GELLUS"!!! You're a crafty fella there E....

"so did hitler"... WTF!!!
I read thru this whole thread and no one had a problem with that, but people get upset about what Schmick has said in the past and are still irate over it. OMG!!!
explain to me what good ideas did this monster, coward, criminal have.

Yep, no problem here, like the Schmick fans I'm just another pot calling the kettle black. Like I said before. You would have found Schmick more offensive if he were talking about the ABA instead.

Go ahead, flare up the drama spike, its horrible, unspeakable, whatever. I gnored a lot of Schmck's offensive stuff too...The difference I wasn't his cheerleader and then act a hypocrite when someone else said something...A crapton of posts and pages later, we got past his and you bring it up again....WINNER OF THE DRAMA QUEEN AWARD!!!

Seriously, if you really did read this, you will see you're late and you are being a drama queen.

ive seen the name schmick here before but havent seen it in a while. how come he hasnt chimed in? does he have a different name or is he no longer on this site

He got banned from the site. In some ways its too bad really but he did keep pushing the limits and testing the water.

ahhhh ok glad im not on mikes bad side

I totally agree with 99 percent of this very basic premise.

1. There is competition but it is not BMX versus BMX. It is ABA versus NBL ( and whatever other sanctions that may exist just outside of the sight line). The reason for this is because each side WANTS IT ALL! If the ABA had all but one track they would still be in direct competition with whatever rival sanction has the one track that is outside the fold. This is why they both run races that are in each others back yard. Whenever the two protagonists are not in very good shape it makes it more imperative to capture the maximum market share available. The reason being that with such a small market any loss of share could possibly prove fatal. So what? Neither of these organizations is evil and both have good points. They just want to survive and so they do what they can. We have raced both sanctions and to be honest we have been treated fairly by both. I wouldn't hesitate today to run a national with either sanction.

This is about as basic and classic as it gets. I was going to say that this is freshmen college business school stuff but frankly those of us who were serious about these often boring matters knew this way before we got to college. Much less grad school. I have no problem with honest efforts toward success.

2. Having said the above about competition, I have to say that in my opinion Elvis is right about everything else. The argument Elvis makes about duplication of efforts is exactly right. We could spend a lot of time arguing this but there is one inescapable fact that we must face. There simply is not enough rider count or related business to justify two sanctions. In it's heyday, maybe. But we are far from BMX's heyday. This sport is laughably small and there is much debate across the spectrum as to whether or not we are growing. I think, as usual, this probably depends on what part of the country you live in and what kind of racing you like to do.

3. I also totally agree that it would appear that the ABA has effectively beaten the NBL "bloody" and would appear to have won whatever there is to win. However, I wouldn't want to bet money that the NBL is on the verge of fading into the sunset. These two sanctions have a very admirable past history of getting off the canvas to fight another day. If they have proven nothing else, it is that they are long distance voyagers.

4. But while it is great to see a fight between two worthy opponents, this one needs to come to a close with one winner that wants to focus on the future of the sport. We are wasting ENTIRELY too much time and very limited resources on anything other than the overall good of the sport. Frankly, I am not even convinced that the sport is now at the gateway to growth. Rather, I believe that stabilization should be the first priority.
We must address our base before we can ever achieve growth that would be acceptable in a professional business portfolio. Without a strong base everything that we do at the elite level is doomed to failure. As participants who love the sport it is essential that we back anything that will provide this. While I don't agree with everything that the ABA does I do admire what they have accomplished in the Olympic arena and their willingness to take a chance. It is truly the equivalent of going all in.

Oh well, back to the salt mine!

To all the riders going to the Grands please accept my wishes that you all have the success that you seek, a great Thanksgiving, and a safe and fun trip home.

All the Best!

Does it ever end! Jeeez.

Hey Nate, you hit him, I'll kick him while he's down! Never met the guy, but I always like a good scuffle.