The only arrogance I'm seeing is yours, your twisted semantics -- that and you might want to look up the nature of monopoly before you pull that arrow from your quiver.

I got numbers, hard numbers, on paper, showing we're -- the BMX community -- losing money on this deal. You got a lot of emotional chest thumping. You're the problem.

In fact if you get down to the problem, you're typical. We got hard numbers, facts, balance sheet outcomes, and we got this ephemeral understanding of ... something, that's used to justify maintaining the status quo. Hysteronics, yeah, that's what the sport needs.

This flying thing is just a fad, the telephone will never catch on, the steam engine is the devil's work -- America needs two BMX sanctions.

You've yet, despite repeated posts, been able to substantiate your views using anything but appeals to emotion. That's not good business, and in the end it's merely predictable theater.

"Monopoly," "arrogance," *eyeroll*

I think ABA would, most certainly, be the Red to NBL's Blue.

+1 x 100

The deadline to submit a resume is December 1st, so there is still time. I'm not sure Schmick has the cojones to follow through though.

And you still fail to listen to wat the real concerns are. Yes I stand by my statement...to feel you need to take over what someone else owns, despite how their wishes, despite their rights...arrogance. Call it emotional but it is arrogant. Certainly offensive coming from the guy who spent years on Vintage bashing the NBL and all of a sudden the plan is to just take over their assets? And the people who would have the power to merge/relenquish those assets that trust you are who?

Seriously, Call me the problem if you want but the years of bashing the NBL that you did on this board makes you the problem in my estimation. You preach to the quier eloquently but continue to belittle the ones who you need to sell the idea to.

Yeah Elvis I'm the problem okay you win the thread what next? Oh wait, The NBL is calling the ABA now to sell. Yep, you were right, I'm the problem. If I didn't lose this thread they wouldn't be brokering this deal.

Ok, let's see it. Let's start another thread devoted to the insurance costs and such, so we can see exactly what the costs are to us. I would be interested in understanding at least how the insurance costs work. I have a tiny idea from the NBL side, but no clue from the ABA side.

Really? Six pages about a (guy) that was banned from here? Seriously people. Let him die (figuratively of course).

BMX RACING!

I believe this has been done a few times, infact, if this was not such a good idea, then there not be a certain group within the NBL to push for control and go with this direction..... Come Feb, I believe a new day will dawn on the NBL....

Buntster

You guys didn’t like his ideas that I posted on the last page. I think he would do some good over there at the NBL. Pull back a bit and focus on your core group and in a few years with some hard work start spreading out again.

It takes a certain type of person to get schmicks brand of humor. Most times he makes a good point with some humor mixed in for laughs. If you bite and get all but hurt you most likely didn’t get the humor.

Bashing the NBL?

That's how it is; anything less than heaping praise upon Mother NBL is "bashing." So now you've moved passed mischaracterization of groups and on to me, my motives.

Hey, if it wasn't for all the money leaving the sport I'd be at worst bemused by the NBL thing. Hell, I've raced that sanction's nationals and tracks and would race them again.

But again your drive to mischaracterize -- since you're unable to meet this thing head-on -- requires you to paint me as a "basher."

I'm bashing a BMX community that's okay with money being poured down a hole because they're fearful of any change, that's willing to mis-characterize it as some sort of BMX piracy.

Laughable, doubly so knowing you expect to be taken seriously with this shotgunning of accusations.

You still -- still -- can't make any case past a preference for the status quo. The status quo: Oh yeah, staying with that has always improved a community.

Like Bunster points out, the number have been done to death. We're talking a _minimum_ of $200,000 per year to pay for double insurance and double administration.

Factor in lost sponsorship opportunities (see up thread) and that number grows, factor the lost opportunity over time and the exponential growth is staggering. Millions would not be an unfair amount under those terms.

First, Let me start by saying the funny thing is my NBL license is about to expire soon and I really don't even kow if I'll renew it. I am that put out with the NBL right now. So I'm contemplating going from Bi-sanctional to ABbA only. So whether the NBL ceases to exist is becoming a moot point for me. (Everybody's got their experiences...) So first, I'm not a die hard NiBbLer. But I do have friends who are.

Yes Elvis, you have talked badly of the NBL, not constructive criticism with intent to help them improve, just opportunities to point the finger at them...to say differently is insulting to our intelligence. You may as well stand on a balcony, pee on the crowd and tell them its raining if you want us to believe any different.

I'm asking you to answer my questions of concern so yes you are correct that I haven't answered you...I won't even put thought into it really because that would be letting you answer a question with a question. Sorry, ain't happening.

Back to my question:

I laid it out over and over again and you still belittle what is important. Hint: You're the one who wants something from another party (NBL Assets) What's important to you is your Dominant buying Motive, not the people you are selling an idea to. I keep telling you that and you still fail to take that concern seriously and just belittle...What I'm asking for is a reason to trust it...I don't want a special calypso gate and 65 laps around the port-a-potty. I just want to know how do you intend to make people feel okay with your idea? Honestly you can't expect two groups who seem deeply divided to just forget everything in order for one to just relenquish control/ownership of assets.

Honestly Elvis, You got pretty close for me with that merger concept you spoke of a couple of nights ago. You know, NBL initiates (Has to because of the lawsuit thing) Merge efforts, one side runs for profit, the other runs not for profit events, scholarships, etc. Develop a balance and check system that keeps both sides as each others watchdogs or something to that effect...I think it was in the Money well spent thread. I am not going to look for it anymore...doing a few things at once right now....Anyway That's my question.

Riddler . you are retired military and you don't know about hostile takeovers...................done for the the good of all ?......................Being different just to be different don't play well when you are spending others money..........................Darwinism should be in vogue here....................but because of all the "Butt Hurt " heroes out there they are letting them surrender instead of taking them hostage...................I'm out BigJeff

I'm actually okay with a hostile takeover. Actually my first thought is to finish the sanction war by crushing them and kill completely. Victory in this case is far more pure nothing left to form a resistance....I've said that over and over again.

The ABA's hostile takeover attempt a few years ago failed miserably and cost the ABA $$ but that's sort of swept under the rug. If the ABA survived that then I believe the NBL can survive one too.

The thing I keep hearing now is a Psyops campaign to sway the other side to just relenquish. If you want that as a path of least resistance Vs. fighting the Sanction war fine. The problem I'm seeing is that the proponents of this are selling their Dominant Buying Motives (DBM) instead of asking the open ended fact finding questions that will help them determine what is the other side's DBM? what will make them agree to this. Instead, The guy who works hardest to sell the point is bent on insulting those who won't go along. He keeps telling me that I want a rulebook and answering my questions with insults and questions, no answers. Seriously that's the problem.

This is selling an idea so I suggest finding a way to sell it, because I'm not very happy with the NBL right now but this one sanction push is even frustrating me. Its Your DBM your pushing on them, not finding out theirs.

Otherwise abandon the Psyops campaign and focus on a battle campaign to crush them. If you win, the war is over. If you lose, they got their crap together...or its a stalemate and the battle rages on.

That said, If I'm suspicious, imagine how the group in charge of NBL assets feels.

EDIT: Clarification fix

The ABA was offered a chance to buy all tied up in USA Cycling; your calling this a "hostile takeover attempt" does not indicate well for your commentary on this matter.

At this point I wouldn't think "hostile takeover" is on the sanction's plate. It's coming out on top in this matter by just answering the phone.

(I'm engaged in Psyops? Good Lord man!)




I'm not seeing a problem with any of it. The people not feeling okay are the ones worried about losing something they can't even describe (people like you, for example). You show up at your local track, pay the money, race. Yadda.

What's the divide? Where? Don't race? Don't pay the money? Don't show up? The differences are so utterly inconsequential as to not matter. Time and again people ask "Which sanction?" and time and again the answer is "It doesn't matter," that racing is racing and all that.

So there, the people have spoken. The only thing we have to lose is money leaving the sport to support insurance companies and a second set of administrators. That's not hostile, that's practical.

Simply put hypothetical situation, say I'm the NBL (oh and believe me, I'm not the NBL... ) The greater good is not my motivation, its yours. Why should I give up my assets? I don't want a pile of cash and walk away...I want to still be involved in BMX...What is the offer? How do they stay involved? EDIT: and not tick everybody off.

Psyops: Its more figuratively speaking of the sanction war. You wish to negotiate a surrender or an armistice with conditions (Figuratively speaking...sanction war). so that is what I mean by psyops in the sanction war...because bloody and battered or not, they still fight to survive.

I don't know if I would call what the ABA did a hostile take over attempt... The then owners of the NBL (USA Cycling) had no real interest in BMX at the time. ABA made a bid and the loyalists circled the wagons and bought themselves from USAC. FL said they would start their own sanction and lawsuits were threatened... Hindsight being 20/20, maybe going to court would have been a good thing...LOL

Really, what would a hostile take over do other that bring about most hostility? Look back at WWI.. Germany was basically left with no means to support itself and that eventually led to the Nazi up-rising and WWII.. But, you are military (Thank you!) and you know that is now why we go and help rebuild countries now... Now, let's pretend, the ABA has some kind of BMX Nuke it could use to finish the NBL.. All it would do is fan the flames of those that are blindly loyal. And, I suspect the number of loyalists far outnumber the numbers of the WE group trying to make changes in the NBL. So, really, is there a better option than for the ABA to sit back and hope that the infighting causes the NBL to implode? All they have to do is roll out the red carpet to tracks that want to switch... And now that the NBL just lost that courtroom battle, it might be easier for those that want to switch. But, I suppose under the right circumstances, the NBL could have won that one, too...

Why do they want to soldier on? Well.. Lets see.. Even a small national at $50 a rider adds up quick. Let's say they get 1500 riders, that is $75,000 for a weekend coming in.. 27 national weekends... You get the picture... Plus, going into conspriacy land here a bit, a good portion of that is cash... One must wonder is all that gets reported.. That's the theory one long time NBL racer I know has...

So, I suspect these sanction wars will continue for a while... It's classic trench warfare. Nobody is really gaining anything..

Brian

3 threads about the nbl. Tons of bickering and inmaturity. Lots of name calling and fussing over minor details. People making long posts the really equate to blah blah blah i made my point by saying the same thing three different ways. Nothing really positive coming out of any threads. Just people getting their fill of feeling important over the internet.

How about we just realize that right now we have two sanctions and go on with life and focus on what both sanctions can do to help the sport.

Very well said.

Very close Ritchie. I only dispute one point, I'm not sure who feels important...it sure isn't some slob like me who only holds a license to race. I'm more important at home than on here on sick days killing time.

... because thinking is hard

Hey man, change is hard, no doubt. But if everything remains the same, nothing will change. Here we have a situation justifying change -- and the usual resistance.

Nobody's saying this is easy, only necessary.

Once you're in the gate its all the same, ABA or NBL. Wait, well it will be in 2011.

I thought about it and Ritchie is right. For now we have two sanctions. So I guess I'll renew my NBL license and choose venues wisely. Besides, I want to race with my friends out there in the NBL world.

Otherwise I get it, you want one sanction and Schmick is the ABA Posterboy, congrats you win the thread. I hope your new found embassador represents you well. Good luck with that.

When I get over this bug I'll ride my bike instead of occupy time with this type of stupidity.

Peace.

You do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around that's what it's all about! Boozer Mike!!!

Today I ask my boss and friend at work to read this whole thread. He knows very little about bmx but a lot about business. I explained who Schmick is and why it is so ironic that he would ever run for a board position.

After reading it he ask me why Elvis seems to hold himself in such high esteem. He laughed out loud when he read the part where Elvis called Ed arogant! He then said that knowing what he knows, it would seem that bmx would shrink if the ABA was the only choice. He said there are always loyalist even with fast food, cable tv, or even telephone companies. These people would bedigruntled and quit. He also made the point that the ABA grands are a long drive from the east coast and economics would cause some to quit.

Keep racing ABA Elvis....just don't keep trying to convice those who don't or can't how bad they re for racing NBL or how bad the NBL is for BMX.........

Now you're just mud slinging.




Yeah, I'm sure you gave him a non-biased take on the thing.

And, oh yeah, keep misconstruing my position, that'll work as well.

Way to go, haters. Heaven forbid BMX would ever be outside your comfort level.

"He also made the point that the ABA grands are a long drive from the east coast and economics would cause some to quit."

And if you are an NBL rider in CA,AZ,NV,etc.? At least ABA grands are as close to the middle of the nation. Hence National Sanction. It would not be fair if they held the grands in cali every year even though that is where the most riders are.

Yeah, the reason to justify two national sanctions is for Grand Nationals location. Warren Buffet stuff right there.

He never said he was going to run. I started this thread to see what other people thought if he did run. The size of Schmick's cojones or lack there of is irrelevant.

You neglected to let your work buddy in on the transportation marvel of the 20th century (that we still utilize in the 21st century). It is this thing with wings that takes off from a transportation hub near you and delivers you to the transportation hub nearest your final destination.

Seriously, do all of the east coast guys expect to drive to every national? I truly don't get it.

OK Mr. Carruth, I'd say 7 pages qualifies me for a Topic on Fire T-Shirt.

"Yeah, I'm sure you gave him a non-biased take on the thing.

And, oh yeah, keep misconstruing my position, that'll work as well.

Way to go, haters. Heaven forbid BMX would ever be outside your comfort level"

No Elvis...I did not give him ANY of my feelings nor how much I dislike you. Take your ABA ball and go home dude. I race, thats it. No ABA here and if it was there are still more NBL races because I enjoy them and because my friends are there...no confort level bs just fun.

We suspended the TOF promotion earlier this year, until we find a sponsor to cover the costs of shipping. BUT, if you want one, I'll be happy to set you up if you pay the $5 postage.

As ridiculous as the premise of this thread is, it has spurred participation, and thats what it's all about.

M

If you are a regional sanction, then it might make people quit. Now on the other hand if you are a national sanction, then a geographic location that is close the physical center of the United States, Tulsa is an ideal location.

If you used that big head of yours, Tulsa is more easterly of the north/south center line so it is a better location for eastern riders for a national organization to host an event that is centrally located.





Click to view attachment

Tell your boss, he needs to take a geography lesson

I love how "Oh it's just some pro-ABA thing" blah blah blah.

See, guys, that's where the wheels keeping falling off your wagon. We got numbers, hard numbers, why two sanctions is costing a lot of money. We got more numbers, also hard numbers, why one of these sanctions may not be operating with a high level of efficiency.

Your refutation of this is to besmirch and deride. You don't have any numbers, any hard data, to support your position, so you come up with left-handed justifications supported by split hairs.

Your real problem is change. You don't want anything to change.

That's okay, it's even normal. You're used to the world operating in a certain way and you're uncomfortable with the shape of that world changing. It's normal to feel this way.

But here's the thing: Outside of subjectivity, outside of theoretical reasoning, you don't have any hard numbers, any data, to back up the position. Over here: Data. Over there, gut reaction.

Two sanctions are costing the BMX community, regardless of sanction membership, hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. That money is coming from somewhere, there's no oil well out back, which means its coming from us, from you and me. Fear of change is costing the sport hard dollars.

Now we have on top of this hard reasons, 38 thousand reasons, to show why one of the two sanctions are operating at a lower-than-optimal performance level. We could even drag in subjectivity, market share, and raise that number well above 38.

But let's stay with the hard numbers, keep it real, color inside the lines.

This fear of change is because you love a sport the way it is; this keeping things the way they are is costing at least a couple hundred thou a year, year after year after year (after year after year). In the time it takes a kid to go from Novice to A Pro we're talking over a million dollars, $1 million, over that.

It's crazy, it makes no sense. It's not about this rule or that rule, these are all things which can be worked out. The goal isn't to make BMX more this sanction or that sanction, the goal is to make BMX bigger. The first step here is to stop dumping money down a hole.

How hard is that? Let's not dump money down a hole. Easy.

You, not me, you, want to turn this into a sanction war. It's not. I've got nothing against the less efficient sanction. I've got nothing especially for the more efficient sanction save this: It appears to be doing a better job of putting my contribution to good use.

That's it.

I'm not asking you to change, I'm not asking BMX to change. I'm asking that our contribution to BMX be used with the most efficiency possible.

Right now, now, you're looking over all this and ready to type "Yeah, but what about ____ where you said ____." That's your fear messing with you. That's pride. That's putting yourself before BMX. Put BMX, the efficiency of BMX growing, ahead of your emotional response, that's where it starts.

Put it another way: In this new more-efficient BMX I'm arguing for, do you really think BMX wouldn't change for me? Really? Do I really think two sanctions could come together and not create some change on my end? Don't be silly, of course there'd be change, for everyone.

But in that change would be BMX moving toward a more distant horizon than the one it's focusing on now, and I really care about BMX, and I'd be okay with that. Yeah sure, I might have a grouse about this or that new rule, but that new horizon, I'd be cool.

And another way: Would it really be _that_ different? Once the gate drops it's all BMX, remember? Don't we say that all the time? The only difference -- the big difference -- would be we're not pulling craptons of money out of the sport every year.

Craptons. Of. Money.

Why is that so hard?

So yeah, sure, "Well Elvis, that's because you're a _____," "Oh sure, some ABA guy, but you're all ______." It doesn't matter. Facts are on the table. Sanction this, penguin that, the fact, the numbers, hard numbers, are right there.

We're spending a ton of money that doesn't have to be spent. It really is that simple. You, me, we have to go outside of our comfort zone to correct this. I'm okay with that.

The numbers don't lie. They don't. Up and down in the measure of this thing, we go the numbers.

And, look, sure, maybe at some time in our past there was a good reason to have two sanctions. But that was then. Those days are past. This is today, this is now. Competition for leisure time continues to grow, BMX is an ever-smaller dot on the radar, and the comp continue to grow in years to come, it's a relentless progress. There the ultimate point: Progress.

We have to progress. There has to be progress. The current situation is the opposite of progress. We are at a critical time, a good time, a useful time, to create this progress, for BMX to upshift a gear and get further down the road. It will not be able to do this with its center being so muddled -- expensively so.

This tribalism is costing us, almost countless sums. I don't care about your sanction, I care about your sport. Change, we need to change. The old way is holding us back.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars, every year, year after year.

I'll agree that tribalism sucks, and that duplication of costs is inefficient. In the end though, it seems like you'd have to make your case to the people that run the sanctions if you wanted anything to come of it, or alternatively, sit around and see what happens in the market. At any rate, as long as more than one sanction exists, it's certain that people will exercise their freedom of choice and spend their money with the sanction of their choice.

I'm glad I got to different Pizza joints, walking distance from my house cause if I don't like the way one taste I can go to the other. I guess in Elvis's mind the small pizza place should just shut their doors and give all their business to the bigger(chain) place just cause they are smaller and it's cost double to have 2 pizza joints a couple blocks apart...
Why would we want choices for anything we do, eat, wear, play....... Keep up the good thinking Elvis!

As Elvis said in earlier post The extra money could then be spent on TV , would bring in more sponsor dollars which could then be spent to attact more riders. Seems pretty simple!

There is a difference... How many people in this country eat pizza vs. how many race BMX? Hell, let's go one better.. How many people in your own home town eat pizza vs race BMX?

If we had millions and millions of people racing BMX every weekend, then I would say the current system is working great. But, guess what? We don't. I have said it before and I will say again.. We have 2 groups fighting for the biggest piece of a small pie. What we need is to make the pie bigger.

200k a year could go a long way towards making a bigger pie...

Brian

Boozer Mike said it was all about doing the hokey pokey.


Ol' Schmick probably reading this thread, drinking sodas and eating Orville Redenbacher popped goodness WFO.

Like I said earlier in the thread..... Hate him or not he has some good ideas.

This is from BMXNEWS written by Schmick on what he would do to save the NBL:


"Circle the wagons, The loyal base of that sanction is east of the Mississippi river, they even have their grands there because those people wont travel. The NBL having their base there with a few satelites on the west coast isnt working, the west coast riders feel like theyre the second class, unwanted riders of the sanction and it is costing the NBL more to try to keep them than theyre bringing in. Let all the tracks west of the Mississippi go, there's only a dozen or so of them anyway.
Now that they have a smaller area to cover they can actually send sanction reps to all the tracks to help them figure out a plan that works best for that track in regards to the tracks local program. Work with the tracks communities to bring more local support to the track and properly train the tracks directors and volunteers to be able to handle all of the recruiting as well as day to day operations competently.
Once the tracks in their area are doing well and the rider counts are up at the regional and regionational races the sanction can look to expand its boundaries but this time instead of jumping from the Middle East all the way to the West Coast, expand in to the central part of the country and try to build up the programs there. Another flaw in their east coast base with west coast satelites is all the people in the center of the country get the neglected feeling those on the west coast get but worse because they dont have any NBL presence in their area at all."

False analogy: Pizza's a commodity, BMX isn't.

You're suggesting two tracks / smaller track, which is the opposite of what I'm suggesting and more fear-mongering.

Keep up the good thinking, Meaker!

So ye' of great condesending powers (Elvis)...what market has a product like ours that proves one sanction is better than 2?

You like numbers? So do I. Here's some numbers we can all understand...

I'll tell you what. When I had work center supervisors put in a requests for large purchases, of items/services. They had to provide three quotes of the exact same item (No compromise of options that justified the item's usefulness. If itwas proposed to buy a lesser product, that would require a separate set of quotes) Okay true, I never ran a sanction, perhaps that's out of my league, but once in "another life" I did run a department with several work centers, a $15M inventory of equipment/consumables and a $500K annual budget for ops/maintenance/training/etc, so your "insurance" numbers do interest me some. (Couldn't give a rat's arse if anyone on this board doesn't believe my partial Resume' claim. As far as I'm concerned you either believe it or you don't and either is fine by me.)

So in the same spirit of that theory, Let's try something similar. Lets see how much insurance costs and only the insurance (You do say just the cost of insurance alone will justify this. And Gross income...we won't even go into overhead expenses and payroll, taxes, etc...in the interest of keeping it simple....Unless you can do the work and verify the sources.

That said:
1) Show us two actual no crap policies...one for each sanction, complete with the names of the insurance company they use...Something verifiable.
2) Then get two actual quotes for combined policy costs, one from each company.

Now, too see just how much "Impact" just the insurance savings alone really has, lets use the historical Data from...okay we'll make this easy...just the 2009 season only...normally I would like a comparison of the last 5yrs average, but last yr will do for Internets Gee-Wiz. But, If you don't want to wait for the ABA Grands, Then use the 2008 Season for both sanctions. After all, this is Internets Gee Wiz.

In order to get a rough sketch of those figures combine

- how many memberships sold/renewed X $45 (We'll Go with ABA Rate) Each Sanction separately
- Use Rider count for all The Nationals X $45 ($45 is in the interest of coloring inside the lines) both sanctions Separately
Oh, If you want to use rider count for pre-races then X $25 per rider (ABA Rate)
- Rider count for RLC Finals and NBL Regional finals X $45 per rider at each event

Don't worry about overhead costs, Payroll, taxes, Pro Payout, etc. As much as I'd like to see everything factored in I doubt that the accuracy of those figures can be reflected here. But hey, if you insist or otherwise feel this won't help without them then have at it, just itemize the figures, total them and make it verifiable...Otherwise its just the internets and the real life takes precidence.

When all is said and done we should have a rough sketch of Separate Gross incomes and insurance costs. We can then Combine the incomes and first total it minus the two separate insurance policies...then combined gross income minus the lowest priced combined policy.

I could do it myself but I'm not going to...I'm not the seller of this Idea, I'm just one of many prospects.

"Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor[1]), entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem, is the principle that "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" and the conclusion, thereof, that the simplest explanation or strategy tends to be the best one."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

Y'all want to play Internets, split hairs, look for chinks in the armor, come up with ever-more-labored analogies, metaphors, and syllogisms, party on.

This thread is really long.

Someone on this board said that Wikipedia is pretty worthless...something to that effect. J/k!!

Okay, What are the hard numbers? Wow much profit does BMX in The US Bring in?

Then If we combine insurance, eliminate an office HQ and Staff, decide on a set number of nats and regionals (Be it RLC or NBL Style...either is fine pick one) how much $ is made?...compare that to what both sanctions do currently as separate entities.

That is what we want to know...Heck, if one sanction has less races as stated elsewhere before, how much potential income are we going to generate to realize this dream?

Hey, I just want to know what the bottom line difference is...not an analogy some hippie with a hooka wrote on wiki...But do tell us when/where his next party is!



I have to admit its become Epic...I even thought of randomnly typing Schmicks name for no good reason just to justify the title of this thread...seems the subject turned.

There's an old saying about people who keep looking until they find a reason to say no. I, as someone who can sell snow to Eskimos, know when I've hit that situation. Don't get me wrong, I can sell around it, but there's another saying or two about wasting one's time.

Or, wait, I just remembered this one: "Never try to teach a pig to swim. It gets you all wet and annoys the pig."

So no, I do not accept your homework assignment. Also: xenephobia

Okay, so you don't have the numbers, no worries!