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mxer746
This is the first I've seen of a 22"er. Interesting bike but I still dont think I could ride anything smaller than a 24" crusier.. there isnt really any place in the racing rulebook for a 22" wheel is there? This must but a dj- park only concept
http://www.factionbikeco.com/bikes.htm
Brandon002
I believe anything with a wheel larger then 20" would qualify as a cruiser. Racing a 22" wheeled bike in cruiser class would be a huge disadvantage so I doubt there's any place for this in racing.
omartcruisers
For those who want a slightly bigger bike, but as big as a cruiser, I say we come up with a design for a 23 and 1/8th inch bike. It be all the rage. Or maybe 22 and 3/4".
sonikk71
Still dont get why we need so many different wheel sizes for BMX bikes. 20 and 24? Sure. Sounds fine...but 26,29 and now a 22? Why? I mean really? Not seeing the need. However I only a ride 20 inch so...
protour77
QUOTE (sonikk71 @ Oct 19 2009, 08:45 PM) *
Still dont get why we need so many different wheel sizes for BMX bikes. 20 and 24? Sure. Sounds fine...but 26,29 and now a 22? Why? I mean really? Not seeing the need. However I only a ride 20 inch so...

I don't get the 22" thing either but as far as a 26" goes, if you ride one you will get it. I am a 20"/24" guy but I have riden a 26" more than a few times and everytime I do I want to sell everything and get a 26". They are that fun to ride.
MIKEKW
rule book says class bikes are 20" or smaller. Crusier bikes are 24" or bigger
CWracer
People probably didn't understand quadangles and vectorbars when they came out. Ideas happen. Some stick, some don't. I'm just happy to see innovation is still happening.
eurohero
Hereīs a clip to get a better impression on the 22". If you ask me, itīs just useless.

Faction 22" BMX


camel
1 - 3/8 inch rims are larger in diameter than 20 inches (21" I think).

Little kid cruiser rims are close to 22".

A lot of guys started riding park on 24". Maybe it's just a transition. More choices.

A 22" wheel would not be a huge disadvantage in the cruiser class. Talk to someone who has raced open wheels classes. In fact, I think it would be an advantage since the wheels could be lighter, it could gate faster, turn sharper, and manual easier. The stability advantage of a cruiser doesn't always make up for what it loses. It depends on the rider's skills.

With nationals having such low turn outs, maybe they should just throw the cruisers together with the 20 inch classes and let it be open wheel. Then some people might start thinking a 22" wheel is a good compromise. Like a 20" with a little added stability.
meaker
QUOTE (camel @ Oct 20 2009, 12:37 PM) *
1 - 3/8 inch rims are larger in diameter than 20 inches (21" I think).

Little kid cruiser rims are close to 22".

A lot of guys started riding park on 24". Maybe it's just a transition. More choices.

A 22" wheel would not be a huge disadvantage in the cruiser class. Talk to someone who has raced open wheels classes. In fact, I think it would be an advantage since the wheels could be lighter, it could gate faster, turn sharper, and manual easier. The stability advantage of a cruiser doesn't always make up for what it loses. It depends on the rider's skills.

With nationals having such low turn outs, maybe they should just throw the cruisers together with the 20 inch classes and let it be open wheel. Then some people might start thinking a 22" wheel is a good compromise. Like a 20" with a little added stability.

You beat me to it..

I think a 22" wheel could have been the perfect size for BMX. Maybe could had just been one class instead of class and cruiser.. More stable the a 20 but can still throw it around better then a 24 0r 26. Just and Idea but since I have never road a 22, I might not even like it..
Lonewolf
QUOTE (Brandon002 @ Oct 19 2009, 07:22 PM) *
I believe anything with a wheel larger then 20" would qualify as a cruiser. Racing a 22" wheeled bike in cruiser class would be a huge disadvantage so I doubt there's any place for this in racing.

This will revolutionize racing.

I have been theorizing this since march '08.

Cruisers look stupid to me. I will never own one.




A 22" bike effectively re proportions an adult male into being 13 again. BMX bikes are no longer unstable, etc.

This will revolutionize everything. Faction, way to go!
Lonewolf
They are calling them cruisers, but they need to be thought of as 20"ers for adults.


This is gonna be big.
FaithBMX
They list Eddie Fiola and Craig Campbell as two of their test riders (and Mat Hoffman as having input, as well). They also mention a UK racer who wants to help them develop a full race version.
Lonewolf
Way awesome. I'll be on the list.
eurohero
22" bikes - I LOLīd heartily.
Itīs the same impasse as Kastanīs one-legged forks from BITD.


...says it all.
Lonewolf
Euro, it's not an impasse. There is nothing faulty about a 22"bike. Kastan forks hit an evolutionary block in the fossil record.
CWracer
QUOTE (Lonewolf @ Oct 20 2009, 07:31 AM) *
A 22" bike effectively re proportions an adult male into being 13 again. BMX bikes are no longer unstable, etc.


My thoughts as well. I don't know affect this will have on BMX racing, but I see it as being positive. 20" is a holdover from Sting-rays, which were kids bikes. BMX has grown a lot.

My 20" works fine, but it's always felt like a kid's bike that was stretched out to fit a 6'1" man. And 24" just feels cumbersome. I've wondered several times in the back of my head about how a 22" might be the 20" for anyone over 5'7".

I'm glad they did this. Now how about we see a race bike? Might get sticky as far as sanction rules go, but hey, we let clips compete against flats. Is that an unfair advantage?
Lonewolf
If the sanctions know what's good for them, they should jump at the opportunity to include them.

They should be run along side 20" - Racer's option.

It looks like a 20 with a kid on it.

This will be the biggest thing to happen to BMX since clips.
Jason F.
its the best of both worlds imho and you may think its stupid thats cool but I think most men over 6' look goofy as all get out on a 20 and far more comfortable on a 24, so the question is WHY wouldnt you want one? still driving your t/a with credence blastin on the 8 track?
okibono
I have to say the person who stated that this would be a grown mans 20' hit it on the head.
The average American man is 5'10". That means there are alot who are smaller, and alot who are taller....

I am willing to say that if the sanctioning bodies let these run w/ the 20's, the larger, stronger riders would
start kicking more tail, and taking more names.

There hasn't been one major sport that has not progressed in the last 20 years by growing its athletes bigger
and stronger. BMX has done it as well, but it has had one obstacle: The 20" bike. Its really hard to put a 6'4"
225 Free Safety/OF/SG on a 20" and tell him to use all of his god-given ability. You can count those guys who
have done it in BMX history successfully on one hand. Up the wheel size, and it will be a whole new ball game.

I doubt it will happen...
idjeff
Maybe the Moosegoose would have been successful with this missing ingredient tongue.gif
Lonewolf
QUOTE (okibono @ Oct 20 2009, 12:24 PM) *
I have to say the person who stated that this would be a grown mans 20' hit it on the head.
The average American man is 5'10". That means there are alot who are smaller, and alot who are taller....

I am willing to say that if the sanctioning bodies let these run w/ the 20's, the larger, stronger riders would
start kicking more tail, and taking more names.

There hasn't been one major sport that has not progressed in the last 20 years by growing its athletes bigger
and stronger. BMX has done it as well, but it has had one obstacle: The 20" bike. Its really hard to put a 6'4"
225 Free Safety/OF/SG on a 20" and tell him to use all of his god-given ability. You can count those guys who
have done it in BMX history successfully on one hand. Up the wheel size, and it will be a whole new ball game.

I doubt it will happen...



Um, that would be me, and I'll BET it will happen. Every manufacturer should suddenly be racing towards their own 22".

It's gonna go over like Nintendo.
cruzertodd
A friend of mine here in Austin has one of the Faction bikes. It's a big bike, too big for me, but I've watched a couple different people ride it and they have no complaints, very predictable and stable in the air. Funny some of you armchair quarter backs can have such a strong opinion of something you know nothing about.
cornfed
QUOTE (idjeff @ Oct 20 2009, 02:14 PM) *
Maybe the Moosegoose would have been successful with this missing ingredient tongue.gif



This style is becoming more popular than you realize. It's part of the fixed gear freestyle fad...I mean movement.

New school fixed-gear Moosegoose (just get a BMX bike already)


I remember a test in (I think) BMX Plus on a 22" bmx bike way back in '83 or so. It wasn't cool then either.

...And this too, shall pass.
longere
QUOTE (MIKEKW @ Oct 20 2009, 05:05 AM) *
rule book says class bikes are 20" or smaller. Crusier bikes are 24" or bigger



Yeah, both rule books are worded pretty much the same...........


20" class = max wheel size of 20", anything smaller can be used


24" class [cruiser] = 24" minimum wheel size, anything larger can be used


So techniquely, anything 20.01" ~ 23.99" is illegal in both sanctions. No sure were these 22" wheels would fit into the current rules.


Longere
Lonewolf
QUOTE (eurohero @ Oct 20 2009, 05:38 AM) *
If you ask me, itīs just useless.


When you went to school in Germany, how big was the bus that took you to school?
Lonewolf
QUOTE (longere @ Oct 20 2009, 03:55 PM) *
Yeah, both rule books are worded pretty much the same...........


20" class = max wheel size of 20", anything smaller can be used


24" class [cruiser] = 24" minimum wheel size, anything larger can be used


So techniquely, anything 20.01" ~ 23.99" is illegal in both sanctions. No sure were these 22" wheels would fit into the current rules.


Longere


Rule books were made to be changed. It's a non issue.

If the sanctions ran them with the 20's the bikes are at a disadvantage because of increased rotational mass (meaning they couldn't accelerate as well). So it get's left to the individual racer as a choice.

Problem solved.
okibono
I hope they do let them in....
Jason F.
huh.gif 20x1 3/8 wheels are 22" so should the little tykes be reclassed? tongue.gif
Jason Chang
Once there are good rims and tires we can see where it go's. Then if they get big I am sure the sanctions will do something. Won't make a diff to me cause I am short.

Changstar
Lonewolf
I'm 5' 12".
LeadSled1
I have some 22 inch tires out in the garage. I was working on something like this 3 years ago. I know the rule used to be 22.5" and smaller was considered a "20 inch" bike. Over 22.5 was considered a cruiser. This was how the 20 X 1 3/8 and 1 1/8 wheels were still considered 20 inch. Time for someone to rock the boat.
LeadSled1
Yep, it is still there.

QUOTE
D. Every bicycle must be equipped with two wheels of matching size.
The wheels on a 20” bicycle must have tires with an inflated diameter not
exceeding 22.5” in diameter. The wheels of a cruiser must have tires with
an inflated diameter greater than 22.5”.
sonikk71
Ok so I hear you guys, but one questions still remains. Why is it the size of wheel that defines the handling. I mean in theory a bike with a 22 inch top tube has a 22 inch top tube regardless of wheel size. And so many of the bigger wheeled Bmx bikes seem to just adjust geo to make it about the same as a 20 inch but with bigger wheels. You run cruiser bars so the bars are still in the same place, you run the seat a little lower in the frame so it is the same height from the ground as a 20 inch up higher, the top tube is angled down farther so as to mimic the height of a standard 20 inch frame, I am just not really seeing this HUGE difference. I just find the bigger wheels heavy and cumbersome. I am not against big wheeled BMX bikes, I say people can do what they want. I just don't understand the differences that so many people seem to feel. I also have noticed the majority of people that are real big on big wheeled bikes are old guys. ( I am not spring chicken either! smile.gif ) At least the old Moosegoose was very different. That I can understand.
TheBinkster
That could be the next big thing...but would the sanctions have to create a different class for them cuz they don't fit in either group! But neither does the 26"ers or the 29"ers. Good idea. I like it
lumpy
I would try one, but the part about the wheel size not effecting the bike during tricks doesn't make sense.. I feel the difference between my 24in cruiser and my 26in MTB..

Brian
idjeff
QUOTE (cornfed @ Oct 20 2009, 03:16 PM) *
This style is becoming more popular than you realize. It's part of the fixed gear freestyle fad...I mean movement.

New school fixed-gear Moosegoose (just get a BMX bike already)


I remember a test in (I think) BMX Plus on a 22" bmx bike way back in '83 or so. It wasn't cool then either.

...And this too, shall pass.


Please say it isn't so.... huh.gif
kidagain
I would like to see bmx stay 20" or 24". Any other wheel sizes will just dilute the sport further. I am 6'-1" and I ride a 20"...Allen Godfrey
Chris C.
QUOTE (TheBinkster @ Oct 20 2009, 11:04 PM) *
That could be the next big thing...but would the sanctions have to create a different class for them cuz they don't fit in either group! But neither does the 26"ers or the 29"ers. Good idea. I like it


26" and 29" fit perfectly in the class that allows wheels 24" or larger. They can be raced competitively in cruiser.
Chris C.
QUOTE (kidagain @ Oct 21 2009, 07:50 AM) *
I would like to see bmx stay 20" or 24". Any other wheel sizes will just dilute the sport further. I am 6'-1" and I ride a 20"...Allen Godfrey


Allen, I am not sure I am completely with you on different wheel sizes diluting the sport. The classes may ultimatley need some re-definition, but the more sized/style bikes that are welcome, the more chances we have of recruiting riders from 4X and the parks.

In my mind, this is still just bicycle moto-cross, so wouldn't it be cool for us to have a way to welcome anyone who wants to moto-cross a bicycle.
Lonewolf
QUOTE (sonikk71 @ Oct 20 2009, 09:10 PM) *
Ok so I hear you guys, but one questions still remains. Why is it the size of wheel that defines the handling. I mean in theory a bike with a 22 inch top tube has a 22 inch top tube regardless of wheel size. And so many of the bigger wheeled Bmx bikes seem to just adjust geo to make it about the same as a 20 inch but with bigger wheels. You run cruiser bars so the bars are still in the same place, you run the seat a little lower in the frame so it is the same height from the ground as a 20 inch up higher, the top tube is angled down farther so as to mimic the height of a standard 20 inch frame, I am just not really seeing this HUGE difference. I just find the bigger wheels heavy and cumbersome. I am not against big wheeled BMX bikes, I say people can do what they want. I just don't understand the differences that so many people seem to feel. I also have noticed the majority of people that are real big on big wheeled bikes are old guys. ( I am not spring chicken either! smile.gif ) At least the old Moosegoose was very different. That I can understand.



Sonikk, The big deal is about the 22" wheel's increased gyroscoping effect relative to body mass.

There is also the issue of increased circumference being able to handle minor terrain imperfections better with a person who might weigh 100 lbs. more than he did as a little kid.

As an adult, when was the last time you took off across a pasture on your BMX bike with the notion you were on an all terrain bike? As an adult, just a little dip could ruin your day on a 20".

Long frames only do not an adult bike make.

Someone said this too shall pass, but in 1983 there wasn't a bastion of adults wanting to ride BMX bikes the way they did when they were young.
VAbmxdad
I'd be interested to ride one. I like the stability of a cruiser, but the maneuverability of a 20. This could be the perfect bike for us older guys...
CWracer
QUOTE (kidagain @ Oct 21 2009, 05:50 AM) *
I would like to see bmx stay 20" or 24". Any other wheel sizes will just dilute the sport further. I am 6'-1" and I ride a 20"...Allen Godfrey


I agree that a cruiser class dilutes the sport, since a lot of guys race one or the other. But I don't see how 22" dilutes the sport *IF* it were allowed to compete against 20". It would simply be a matter of preference for the rider.

I think there are potential riders out there who shy away from BMX because they don't think the bikes fit big people. People associate this sport with children and teens. And while they do by far make up the greatest percentage, there are more adults getting interested in it. Why not accommodate them?


QUOTE (Lonewolf @ Oct 21 2009, 07:02 AM) *
Long frames only do not an adult bike make.

Someone said this too shall pass, but in 1983 there wasn't a bastion of adults wanting to ride BMX bikes the way they did when they were young.


Good points. As I said earlier, I like my 20" a lot, but it still feels like a stretched out kid's bike.

I remember the pros in or around 83 hitting an age where they were no longer kids, and leaving BMX to pursue mtb racing. It was like a logical progression; BMX for the kids and teens, and then mtb for the grownups. That's fine if that's how people want it to be, but if that's the case, why are so many riders 21 - 50's+ riding BMX? Maybe there is something special about BMX. And if that's the case, I don't see what's wrong with re-thinking old conventions to better accommodate adult riders.
cruzertodd
QUOTE (CWracer @ Oct 21 2009, 10:47 AM) *
I agree that a cruiser class dilutes the sport, since a lot of guys race one or the other.

nonsense
CWracer
QUOTE (cruzertodd @ Oct 21 2009, 09:54 AM) *
nonsense


Well, I can only speak from experience. I know more than a few riders who race cruiser and therefore do not race 20". If that's not dilution I don't know what is. And considering that racing both 20" & 24" requires buying and maintaining two separate bikes, two memberships, and two entry fees, it shouldn't come as a surprise that guys go with what they're most comfortable with and pretty much stay with it. Perhaps your experience has been different.
cruzertodd
I bet at least half of the older cruiser racers in both sanctions would not race at all if were no cruiser classes.
Bikemonkeys
QUOTE (cruzertodd @ Oct 21 2009, 11:36 AM) *
I bet at least half of the older cruiser racers in both sanctions would not race at all if were no cruiser classes.


Well that's what some that say they would race Vet Pro if there was a cruiser class say.
cruzertodd
I bet if there were a vet pro cruiser class they would have full gate mains at most of the pro nationals. A vet pro cruiser class would also give the older guys that are winning 28-35, 36-40, and 41-45 by whole straightaways at nationals something more to work for.


thread hijacked


back to 22" wheels
Jason F.
QUOTE (cruzertodd @ Oct 21 2009, 11:36 AM) *
I bet at least half of the older cruiser racers in both sanctions would not race at all if were no cruiser classes.

yup, I doubt I would as I am far to large right now to fit on any 20" comfortably I have rode 22" head tubed bikes with big tires super tall bars and long stems....theres no replacement for displacement....and that goes for wheels size too.

To the people who downplay this....you dont like it, thats fine but dont downplay others excitement because you dont feel it, it makes you look mildly out of touch.
Bikemonkeys
QUOTE
Sonikk, The big deal is about the 22" wheel's increased gyroscoping effect relative to body mass.

There is also the issue of increased circumference being able to handle minor terrain imperfections better with a person who might weigh 100 lbs. more than he did as a little kid.


You could run heavier 20" wheels.

Are these 22" bikes riding like a 20" or a 24" or something completely different? I've heard some complain about their cruisers when they ride too much like a 20" and people complain when their 20" rides too much like a cruiser. If cruiser riders wanted a nimbler bike, wouldn't the trail and rake of the fork be adjusted for this along with other aspects.

I've been told there's a 24" Sunday that rides just like a 20. Anyone riden one?
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