During the years when the ballots went out to industry experts and HOF members, there were years where not even 10% of the people asked to vote actually cast a vote. During those same years, there was just as much campaigning going on as there is today. The ABA listened to the public who wanted to vote and they tried it out with mixed results.

As mentioned at Rockford, the Hall of Fame is going through changes. Many of these changes deal with the exact things being mentioned here, so there is no need to respond on a thought by thought basis. I think when you see the finished product, most of you will be happy and impressed. All I can tell you is great things are on the way and the National BMX Hall of Fame is going to make several positive changes. I hope you will give it a chance before you publicly criticize it. Like I said, many of those changes have been made already but it is impossible to go backwards.


There are many valid points contained in this thread. Guys like Veltman and Purse and Judge all had remarkable careers. So did Kathy and Deanna and Sal Zeuner and Randy Street and lots of others that are missing. At Rockford, we mentioned the formation of a Hall of Fame committee that will evaluate and promote bmx and The National BMX Hall of Fame. The public will continue to have a vote, as will each committee member. Like I said, give it a chance. It's so easy to be negative these days, I hope you will find the good and the hard work being done by lots of people to make bmx better as a whole.

So that explains how Robby Rupe got in.

I leave for 24 hrs and it's interesting coming back and seeing what has transpired.

After speaking to Cash and Shannon today I truly believe they are trying to fix the system. Unfortunatly this year we have what we have in the Hall of Fame.

Everyone keeps speaking the industry should vote and unfortunatly indurstry doesn't give a shite. The voting process up until a few years ago was all industry nods into the Hall of Fame and there were very little votes so they threw it out to the public. Which has increased the numbers but giving an opportunitity to stack the votes if you do a major campaigne the way Redline does.

My beef with the current format is the public vote in which we saw on this very thread people voting for DD just to tinkle tinkle little star, tried to be salty but didn't get far everyone off and the giant monster of Redline doing mass emails to every bikeshop/track/distributor world wide to vote for their riders. Hell I even get an email every year to vote for Redline riders as does my local bike shop who happened to sell a few Redlines in the past year. If your on the nominating commitee as Redline is the mass emails have to stop. Just look at the past and you'll see how the votes have swayed that way. Next year will be Billy Griggs getting in as Redline will push the vote. Billy deserves to be in but if your on the nominating commitee that's two votes in the bag already. No disrespect to Bill at all as he should have been in years ago.

The other beef is with the females not getting in. 2 females in 20 years of the Hall of Fame versus countless men........ enough said.

I'm not sure how to fix it but it needs fixing. I have the utmost faith with the way the vote will go next year once it's unveiled. Just no mass emails all over the world.

Thanks goes out to Shannon and Cash for trying to preserve the history of the sport when no one else would. The NBL tried to do it last year and fumbled big time. If you have ever been to the lunch for the Hall of Fame you know what a big deal it is. Comments like waiting for someone to get inducted and turn it down does nothing for the history of the sport. We have to have a past to have a future. We just need a ton of tweaking of the system to make it fair for all.

" The public will continue to have a vote" Lame..Can you say popularity contest? HOF commitee, are you kidding me? There has been one for many many years, it's the members that get voted in..

So they only got 10% of the people to vote, I understand that is a problem, here's an idea..Reach out to the HOF members and let them know what is going on, that if they cannot vote then it will have to change. I never got contacted about this issue, I vote each and every year..

Opening up the vote to johnny public makes being a HOF member cheap, it is not what it used to be..I cannot view being a member of the ABA HOF as much of an achomplishment now since it's a popularity vote...As Deanna said, Red Line does mass e mailing to the HUGE dealer base and guess who gets put in..This is not how it is in any professional sport..Do we want BMX to be professional? I sure do, this makes it stupid, and as I said earlier, I place no value on being a HOF member under the current guidelines...

You can change the home of the HOF, you can get it some hype, you can add Jeremy McGrath, get people talking..You can also throw a nice paint job on a POS and call it a nice ride..Under the paint it is junk....Get my point...

I am a member of the United States Bicycling Hall of Fame, and damn proud of it.....I guess that is something to be proud of...I speak my mind while others lurk and read, it is what it is like what I say or not...I have also had several conversations today with many people both in the HOF and not, and we all agree....

GH

Deanna, like I told you in our call, I believe the items of contention have/will be dealt with . Give it a chance is all I ask. When something is broken or in need of repair, often you have to take it apart to get it back in shape. Not everything that goes on in bmx has to be put up for public discussion, debate, or review.

The irony is that if we dissalow the public opinion, then this very thread should be void as well. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, their right to lurk, their right to speak, whatever. The cool thing is everyone wants the same thing, but we have a different set of ideas how to get there. Regardless, I hope we end up in the right place at the right time.

Greg, you are right, you can dress up a pig and it's still a pig, or something like that! But that isn't the case here. The BMX Hall of Fame has value, it has a future, it now has a real home, and it has real direction. Most of this email is a rehash of things that are already being dealt with in private so that they might be well thought out and delivered well to the public. A foundation is being started. A real scholarship program is being started. A national event is being built, but it won't be built over night. But I promise you, it will be built and it will be valuable and it will last longer than any of us here. BMX is still in its infancy and our future has yet to be written. Will mistakes be made? Sure. Those of you who are mistake free jump right in. But know this, the heart and intent of this endeavor is correct, and if you do enough correct good things over time, something fantastic can happen.

For a few people, these announcements of induction are a lifetime dream come true, perhaps the best single moment of their lives. For these folks, this moment is a way for them to look back and say thanks to the people who supported them back in the day, and we ALL had supporters back in the day. This public debate and the manner in which it is taking place is not right, at least not right now. Let these inductees enjoy their moment without a bunch of protest and lets celebrate what is right. People look for fault like there is reward in it. Imagine how the new inductees feel when people start to downgrade their moment. Give these folks their due.

One day your children's children will visit the National BMX Hall of Fame and know grandpa or grandma did something amazing.

Was Cash voted in by peers or the public?

Most of this email is a rehash of things that are already being dealt with in private so that they might be well thought out and delivered well to the public.

The Mcgrath decision was done in private also. Is this really a reasuring statement.

Mx Mug

So anyway, back to the subject at hand. I've been bombarded with emails today asking about tickets and people telling me how pumped they are for this years event. Sooo, I'm here to answer the fans!

HOF TICKETS AVAILABLE HERE NOW!

Wish I could make it out there this time around Shannon. I'm sure it will be an awesome event.

Hope your stay in Chula Vista is going well and sorry I didn't ring you back when I got home, things came up as always after work. I'll give you a ring tomorrow.

D

Brian,

You have obviously totally confused the 2 awards, NORA is for the fans, it's an award that was specific for the fans to vote for their favorite riders...

HOF is not about voting for your favorite rider...I want to thank you for posting that, this is my exact point in saying the HOF has become a popularity contest. It's supposed to be about life time achievement, and getting voted in has absolutely zero to do with popularity...

GH

Since the public already has a say in the voting, maybe reduce or limit how much value is by the public. I dunno like 25% is by the public and the other 75% by people in the know. This way a big campaign push would serve as to educate and raise awareness of a person but not enough to get them in by itself. Otherwise it will or is won by the biggest promo. Regardless of who your company is, GH is a HOFer

Changstar

Brian B quoting Greg Hill from two different sources:


I understand what you are trying to say Brian B but, in my view, the difference between the HoF and NORA is that the HoF is a honor for an entire career, not a "who was the best that year" honor. The NORA Cup-BMX Action's (and later Snap BMX Magazine would inherit it and it is now with Ride Magazine) Number One Racer Award for the uninitiated-is like voting for the All Star Team (the same with ''BMX Plus!'''s Racer of the Year-ROY). In my opinion like in Baseball All Star voting, the NORA voters generally got it right if you compare who won in a given year and what he did on the track. Usually the person who dominated on the track that year, usually won NORA (a big exception was Ronnie Anderson who was winning everything in sight in 1986 including a 10 ABA National winning streak, but we know how he was back then). The racer/fans being at that nationals and reading the magazines were well informed as to that racer's track record and comparing him to his peers. It was a popularity contest but the populous was well informed for that year.

With the Hall of Fame, it is a reflective judgment over the entire career of a racer (or it should be IMHO) and some racers mayn't got the publicity other racers did even if he/she did very well. Some of them have been forgotten over the years, including their accomplishments including winning titles. The BMX public likely doesn't have the racer's career records on hand to make an informed decision but may vote because he is the most talked about or has an active cheerleading section. The vote restricted to the racer's peers who presumably has the racer's (or freestyler's or Dirt Jumper's) records from start to finish of his career can make a more deliberate balanced, review of the racer's career, including things that didn't make it to the BMX Press for guys like me to read in say Super BMX but they know about. They could correct some of the unfair imbalances in publicity some racers received and as such his or her's exploits got under or never reported (and also temper those who were over exposed at the time) and to do it without boosterism for a certain region or state-unless of course that racer made a great contribution to his/her state for BMX then that is fair game.

That is the difference between the two awards in my view. One measures the achievement over a year and the public acclaim. The other measures an entire career and is honor by the racer's peers (but yes how many times a racer has won a year achievement award should be counted among the racer's career achievement just like a 10 consecutive All Star Game participant should be strongly considered for the baseball HoF). If people are going to campaign for the HoF then those people better be able to provide a list of that racer's accomplishments. Otherwise there should be no public voting for the HoF.

Oldtimer1980s

And if it's a 'national' hall of fame, then it would be blind to whether or not the rider was an NBL champ or an ABA champ. Back in the day, if you lived in the northeast, you were racing NBL a lot more than ABA because that's who ran the majority of the tracks.

So if it were a truly national hall of fame, and one that is blind to sanction, then Kathy Schachel should definitely be inducted, as should Gaby Bayhi. These women fought for the original NBL women's pro class back when we were called Powderpuffs, for God's sake, and both of them held the #1 Women's Pro plate in separate years. The NBL and the ABA did nothing to support female riders back in the day; we were more of an oddity than anything else. The girls racing today (especially at the elite level) have no idea how good they have it. the ABA refused to recognize the NBL women's pro class back in the 80s; perhaps they still have no 'memory' of it when it comes to considering nominees and inductees.

So continue to ***** about DD Leone (whatever, a so-so pro but he must have a lot of friends on here); and McGrath (motocross? whatever), and Troy Lee (over priced leathers made in Vietnam? no thanks). None of it matters because the entire concept has been cheapened. Greg Hill is right.

The silence to my question speaks volumes.

Agreed. The Northeast and Florida was mostly NBL territory until the late 1980s (there were a few ABA tracks there I know since I raced Braddock in New Jersey at the time). To clarify if the new National BMX HoF is just that, national, then yes I can' under stand not including foreign racers who didn't race much or at all in America since it is a national recognition for those who raced the American and Canadian circuits, but if it is going to claim to be the HoF for ALL of BMX then yes, Corine Dorland (Holland) and Xavier Redois (France) and Andy Ruffell (England) to name a few, should be in the hall too. Dale Holmes (England) and Christophe Leveque (France) raced the American circuit and won mucho titles here so no question they are eligible for "our" Hall regardless.

No argument from me especially with Schachel. She never even got an interview in any of the major BMX mags for becoming No.1 the first or the second time, but that is a dead horse's skeleton I'm kicking regarding press coverage.

I think you are being more than a wee unfair to the NBL. They did stick with it three full years. I am sure Cathy Tedesco who, as you well know, raced with you bent her dad's ear (Bob Tedesco for those who don't know) and did every thing she could to keep the class going. It just didn't have the participation to keep it going sadly. Now, unless there was some legal thingy to prevent it I think the Women's pro class should had been a pro/am class, just like the original Men's pro class was starting in 1977 with the NBA to 1979 because it was a small class. They could compete in both pro class and 16 & Over Expert, it was essentially, to put it in modern terms, the equivalent of UCI Superclass or Junior Men. That is how the male pro class grew I think until it could stand on its own. I think y'all should had been still been eligible to race 15 & over girls. If that would had been a bad idea someone tell me why. As for the ABA, maybe they could've been good sports and let the NBL pro girls race in 16 & Over even if they didn't have a pro class themselves. Perhaps that is one of the reasons the NBL girls pro class didn't flourish: ABA a significant number of amateur girls didn't want to loose the ability to race ABA. Just a guess. Oh, and the NBL was the first to bring back Women's Pro.

Well let me say that the D.D. Leone thing is closed with me. I meant what I said when I said that once a racer gets in no matter how much I dis agree with it, I say nothing more after this instance just like I won't mention the others in the HoF that, in my view shouldn't had gotten in. I will say this to close the matter: D.D. was more than a so-so racer, he was an very good racer. The thing is he should had been better than he was. He faltered in 20" pro when he reach the senior level after he almost ruled 20" in his age class in amateur and did very well in "B" pro "20". He, IMHO, seemed to have lost his edge in 20""AA"/"A" albeit in Pro Cruiser he did quite well, coming in NBL Pro Cruiser no.3 and USBA Pro Cruiser No.2 (both 1985) in his first career and ABA National No.2 twice (1990, 1991) in his second career (after he retired the first time and then Gene Roden brought him back) so D.D. was very good, just not necessarily Hall of fame material when there are, IMHO, much more obvious racers who should be in before him-both men and women. BTW I wouldn't characterize my opinion about D.D. as **** whatever **** is. It was STRICTLY by the stats (and any building of the sport good deeds) I didn't think he was eligible. I have NOTHING personal against the man. And that is all I will say about him in this subject.

Oh, and if Troy Lee has to make their wears in Vietnam to keep cost to the consumer down, more power to them.

Oldtimer1980s

this seems quite reasonable.

Yes it does. America went to sleep.

M

More like hof voting process went to sleep, looks like everyone is now wide awake.

LOL. I win the over-under! I had "under" 30 minutes before a Kerry response...and odds on the back-line for a comment mentioning sleep and the voting process in the same sentence.

M

Wow, you have a brilliant mind. I'd contest the under/over in your mind bur how would I do that? Mike, do you really want to go there?

Please don't make your debut in under handed humor aimed at me.

I've got an opinion on this matter like others.

Both, why does it matter?

I agree with Ken. It doesn't matter how Cash got in. He got in and deserves to be in. The BMX Pioneer section is dwindling down and will receive a major overhaul next year.



There were no relations to Cathy and Bob. Same last name but that was it. Bob is from Pennsylvania and Cathy was from Massachusetts and she posts on this site on occasion.

The Hall of Fame has inducted many NBbler's through the years. I wouldn't consider it ABA Biased as the players on the current nominee list all raced both sanctions and fought for World Titles. Greg Esser and His father (R.I.P) are both inductees to the Hall of Fame. To many the Hall of Fame is about racing both US sanctions and the World's. If you didn't race both then you probably did not have the credentials of what they are looking for in the Hall of Fame.

Females on the other hand as stated are a rarety. I can think of a dozen off of the top of my head that should be on the nominee list and [size="3"]after 25 years 2 females have been made inductees/3 are currently on the ballot.[/size] To me that's glaring and really a shame but this is not the ABA's fault. People vote, they just don't vote for the females many of which hold more titles and championships then our male counterparts.

I'm with you guys on Kathy getting the nod for an induction. To many of us young girls she was who we looked up to. She paved a road for Women pro racing that still exists today. She was a World Champion and an NBL Champion. I'm surprises she didn't focus more on the ABA as this was the toughest title to win year after year.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here but the current inductees over the past few years have been Redline riders. Greg Hill and I spoke about the marketing machine which is Redline sending out a mass campaign world wide to their customer base asking for their vote even when they don't know anyone on the ballot. If your name was associated with Redline your guaranteed a spot. That has to stop to make the Hall of Fame reputable again. It's not a popularity race it's about celebrating a riders life time achievements. To mass market directing everyone to vote for your riders cheapens the whole process. The Hall of Fame is not the NORA cup but with this mass campaign explained above it sure has turned into that.

Many of the people reading this thread don't realize this is happening and I'm promised this will not happen in the future when Redline earned a spot on the board comittee of inducting riders into the Hall of Fame. We shall see if that truly happens. To allow this to happen will give them 2 nods for their riders with the mass email win and the seat vote they will have.

I have the most respect for Cash and Shannon trying to fix the system. We all just need to be patient while a bigger, better Hall of Fame comes out of the ashes. Something everyone can be proud.

Congrat's goes out again to the current inductees and this years class. What a major accomplishment being in the Hall of Fame.

Well I agree and disagree Deanna. Sure Cash deserves a spot. IMO there are a great # of others who deserve the spot far before him if you're talking accomplishments instead of a popularity contest. Why is it so wrong saying that? Pliskas breathing fire over there. Because it is a popularity contest.

I remember the campaigning pre inductees were doing trying to get in.

Sorry I struck nerves/truths.

I don't think anything I said was either underhanded or humorous. But whatever, dude.

P.S. It seems like we're approaching the "get off the pot" stage on this thread (same points being made over and over again, albeit with escalating degrees of vigor...and people getting increasingly testy).

If anyone has anything NEW to add, without re-chewing-the-already-digested-cud, please do so, cause I'm putting an eight-hour "lock clock" on this thread.

M

Good idea, lock the thread if people don't agree..Mike, I was under the impression you took over VBMX to improve upon the previous owners..You have done a GREAT job, I love this site..However this is the same thing Curtain and crew did, if the popular choice is being challenged, lock em out..Sorry bro..I respect and like you very much however that is lame to lock a thread...There has been no profanity used, no major disrestect happening, just people talking about something they feel strongly about..

Here is a "new" thought. How in the heck do we (BMX) put SEVEN people in the BMX Hall-of-fame in one year? MLB just added two. MLB is the longest running American sport and every year there are very FEW people added to the HOF. Why? Because a HOF is reserved for the Elite of the elite. It seems to me the BMX HOF is basically anyone who held a pro card in the 80's or had some idea for a product. Seriously. The BMX HOF is far too watered down to hold much value. There are names of folks in there who were never considered the top of the class, yet they are in the HOF. BMX has basically been around 30 years. At this rate, any 6 year old rookie that signs up today and races for a year or two will be in the HOF in 10 years. (obvious sarcasm to illustrate the point, that the HOF already has too many people for the very SHORT amount of time our sport has even been in existence.)

Perhaps we should look at some of the GOAT threads elsewhere. Those thread generally only produce about 10 names. That is probably the amount of people (plus some industry folks) who would need to be in there at this point. Just saying.

Jeremy certainly belongs in the Moto-cross/Supercross. NOT BMX.

Greg, that is not what's going on here AT ALL. People are free to disagree all day, every day...and they do—by a magnitude. My rule on locking threads is EXCLUSIVELY centered around the notion of "Is anything new (relative to the topic) being discussed?" If new stuff is being discussed...for example, instead of decrying what already IS, someone wants to set forth a detailed plan for how to do it better in future years, then open that up to debate, that would be AWESOME! No objection to that.

GH, you know this from moderating your own site. Once the initial energy burst of a thread has been spent, what comes next is people joining in with their "+1s" to what has been said... then we circle back around for a more vigorous version of round one. Next time around, if you have not already, you start getting the personal attacks and calls-onto-the-carpet for one thing or another. And before long it is spins elliptically into a way-off-topic discussion about White Castles or something (inside joke on a recent NBL thread).

There is no conspiracy here...no "grassy knoll" to watch for the kill shot to free expression...no agenda to tamp down free speech. Just trying to keep the mixing board in the green in this DJ booth we call the Engine Room.

Best,

M

P.S. The "lock clock" is my way of saying "is that all you got?...fair warning then." Which is why I did not just lock it straightaway.

Just to piggyback on what Bags said, don't the football and baseball HOF's require like an 80% vote to get in? I know they have rounds where they reduce the number of candidates and then they take in between 1-7 per year.

If you guys are looking at fixing the system, I'd start there.

And to the Troy Lee comment, they are some of the most expensive stuff out there. Definitely NOT passing the lower manufacturing price onto the customer!

Ken

There has been NO other BMXer who has reached the fame that Jeremy has; and who has spoken about BMX publicly in the most POSITIVE WAY. His top-selling book gave the first 2 chapters almsot entirely to BMX! Much of his early success (& style) in motocross, he attributed to his days racing BMX.


You guys don't get the big picture. You are narrow minded for sure. Jeremy will bring more exposure to the BMX Hall 'O Fame which in turn brings more exposure to those in it and all of their accomplishments. GREG being one of them, oh wait, or is he out now. More exposure brings more things to the the table. It's a fund raiser guys!!!! You don't get it? It's marketing 101.


BTW, again I'm geting hit by many of the HOF'ers about this event. We have "special" ticket handling for you. You can contact me here - shannon@ababmx.com - Subject line HOF Tickets and Confirmation.

Just received confirmation from Ernie Alexander boys!!!

that says it all

This Infuriates me to the max!!!!

This is where you are narrow minded. THE HOF ISNT ABOUT MARKETING!!!! I guess once you get that through your heads then the ABA hof will be legit. You think any REAL major league sport cares about marketing the sport or anyone in it through their HOF?!!????!!!!

I cant even believe you just typed that Shannon. Shame on you guys.

It's kind of fun to watch somewhat else fighting a rear-guard action and engaging in a vigorous round of turd polishing that's unrelated to something stupid propgated by the NBL Board of Directors

Obviously its marketing 101; I applaud your temerity for acknowledging it but wonder as to the wisdom of the decision...

Curious as to the total number of HOF inductees in both sanctions and how long they have run their respective programs? Bags point is a good one...

Ed Reinhart

Shannon,

Your point about marketing 101 is ridiculous, are you truly serious...I do not care how many books Jeremy wrote, that is not how you get into the HOF..You my friend have sold out to what you think is the bigger picture..Well, let me tell you what the bigger picture is..I busted my a$$ to get in the ABA's HOF, now you want to call it simple marketing 101, that is absolutely selling out the HOF concept...ABA's choice to sell out on the HOF to make it a marketing tool is sad..Why don't you put your energy into marketing 101 as you say without selling out on everyone who worked their tails off to get in there in the first place...And yes, I think it's a joke and I would be more than pleased to return my plaque and have you erase my name from your ABA Hall of Fame...That would please me tremendously..It's an honor to be in a HOF, if it's done correctly it is a very great honor, on the flip side it is very embarrassing for me to be in your HOF as a "marketing tool" thanks..I think the day I need marketing advice from you guy's is the day I need to roll on out of here, thanks

I have my induction in the United States Bicycling Hall of Fame, they simply vote people in on their accomplishments..No marketing 101 there just plain integrity is all...

GH

Ed,
If you go to www.ababmx.com and click on the drop down menu "About the ABA" you will see the hall of fame link. The hall of fame started in 1985 and has been a good thing to recognize the stars of our sport.

As you know from last year at the NBL Grands it was the NBL's first year at the Hall of Fame. They flopped miserably although I do hope for a good future where both sanctions can come together and nominate some of the sports best. NBL was late to the punch and decided it was time to recognize the sports riders and industry 25 years after the ABA started their version. Now that the Hall has a new home and I assume tweaking of many of the ways riders get in I have great hope for it in the future.

Deanna-

I saw the link but didn't care to do the math...The link indicates they induct three each year but sounds like the number is greater so I thought someone might have the cliffnotes version.

Likewise the NBL site only list Esser and Tedesco from 2000 but I know the interweb is a new experience for those guys and probably haven't updated their list since 2000. I was hoping for someone to have a cliff note version for those guys as well.

Regardless, it's kind of like running 25 national weekends a year...it devalues your product. I'm with Mr. Hill on this one.

Ed

What? I know you and I trade barbs over sanction stuff, mostly in jest. But the above quote is the most bizzarre thing I have ever seen you write. Fund raiser? Marketing? WOW!!!!!

I'd like to be in the BMX Hall of Fame...How much is the suggested donation?

Ed

All it takes is a large email campaign.

Greg Hill is my new hero. I couldnt agree with him more . Inducting Riders who arent true hardcore BMX racers dimiishes rhe prestige of the HOF.

Greg Hill is my new hero. I couldnt agree with him more . Inducting Riders who arent true hardcore BMX racers dimiishes rhe prestige of the HOF.

Greg Hill is my new hero. I couldnt agree with him more . Inducting Riders who arent true hardcore BMX racers dimiishes rhe prestige of the HOF.

Sorry about that Ed.

I can give you the rough math. The ABA has inducted 3 people per year for the past 24 years.

1 for Industry
1 for Pioneers/70's racers
and one for Racers. Most of us fall into the racer catagory for the Nominee list.

This year the ABA inducted quite a few. DD Leone (Redline Rider), Mike Buff and RL Osborne (Redline Riders), Danny Oakley, Troy Lee, Eddie Fiola and Jeremy McGrath.

My understanding is the DD, Troy Lee and Danny Oakley were voted in by the committee board and votes from the public. (alas the mass emails we were talking about)

Buff and RL were giving the nodd from the comittee and received automatic nominations. Atleast that was my understanding in Rockford when I talked to Cash. I believe Eddie was the same way. Buff and RL have been on the ballot but in an effort to induct some freestylers to it they gave the nodd to all 3 listed above.

McGrath I do not believe has ever been on the ballot and was inducted in by the board with no vote.


The NBL has only inducted a few. 2000 saw the ones you mentioned and last year saw Kathy, Stuart and Greg. I belive Alice Bixler and Linda Dorsey (R.I.P.) are in to. I know that they received life time awards not long ago. It's not a matter of the NBL not updating they just cant seem to put it together at all. That and the fact they are behind the 8 ball as the ABA has preserved our sport in both riders and industry since the get go.

I hope that answers your question.

And just for the record, who is on this board?

I'm not completely sure. I know Gork is and that was my rant with the mass emails and his vote on the seat he would get 2 points right off the bat as no one can compete with the mass emails he sends out.

Cash is the MC and a damn good one at that. I can't remember if he is on the board.

Shannon is and should be. Great guy in my books and a wealth of knowledge in both old school and new. Shando does a great job with marketing the sport. I have no beef with McGrath getting in but now that I see the banter back and forth and can see the way Greg feels. Maybe Jeremy should have been inducted in some other way as should Lance Armstrong, Johnny Tomac and so many others that got their start in the sport and moved on to other platforms of racing. For Jeremy to mention BMX in his book is great. He's much bigger than our whole sport. I know it's to late to rethink this one but maybe we could have got him to do promotions for BMX via MX racing. I know the ABA has done a great job with marketing. We all wish there could be other outside support. ABA did a run of promoting free races in Supercross magazines. Maybe that would be better marketing than putting him in the Hall of Fame. Just thinking out loud here.

Mike,
I see where you may want to lock this thread. And that's your call but I think instead of turning this into a negative we can come up with a good solution/ideas for how riders are picked and inducted.

Here I go...
(but before I do, let me preface this that I know I'm a nobody in this sport just putting my 2 cents in--before I get accused yet again of being delusional)

It is a popularity contest, but it was a popularity contest even when it was out of the public's hands.

If it was strictly a "deserve to be in the HOF" John Palfreyman (along with Dougie Takahashi) would have been in years ago. The impact that they made on the early sport is well known and has been documented by less biased people than me.

People have long memories and they can still remember what an opinionated loud mouth JP was and still can be and this surely translates into some personal preferences among the people who made the decision the old way and that decision did not and still does not include John.

There are some well deserved cats in the HOF no doubt, but let's face it, this has ALWAYS been a popularity contest. This includes JM who is getting an HONORARY mention.

I think that we are good friends Greg, so I understand your opinion but to ask to have your name removed from the HOF because you don't agree does a disservice to all the great work and racing that you did ever since I remember. The people who looked up to you back in the day, the many people who still look up to you, your fellow racers, your friends and most importantly your family deserve better than that.

Then again, I'm just a decrepit old BMXer who happens to love the sport regardless of who get chosen to the HOF.

I think this discussion is not only healthy, but very necessary to the past and present of BMX.

Back in the day, I was given the distinct honor by the ABA allowing me to submit a HOF ballot each year. I took it very seriously, and am disturbed by an earlier post that some others given this same honor failed to submit their ballot. The group tasked with this honor should be modified year-to-year to prevent such results.

Rather than the current trend of moving the HOF voting into a popularity contest, I think the ABA should consider going back to the original method of selecting inductees. The MLB Hall of Fame organization has been doing this before dirt was invented, and I think the ABA should follow their proven lead. They have separate "Negro Leaguer" and "Executive and Pioneers" inductees, voted on by different methods, and I don't see why the ABA couldn't use a similar method.

Assuming I did not know the folks leading the efforts of the BMX HOF included the likes of Shannon, BA, Cash, and others, I would be very worried about the direction the HOF was taking. However, knowing that guys like these are at the controls of the BMX HOF, I know they will have their eyes and ears open to make sure in 100 years from now, someone thinking about starting this crazy sport called BMX will have a single location (physical and internet) to go to learn about the legends of BMX.

Mark "GONZO" Summers

I'snt GHP made in Taiwain??????? Don't dog out our over seas makers. Come on now Great product is made in those countries.




Can someone tell me how the Bike of the year is determined? Is it about how "many frames are sold"?
OUCH!!! IF true

What I dont understand is why the flaming now? When you voted you saw Jeremy's name up there, so why not sour then? Why now?

Everyone nominated is worthy of the induction. They might not have met your criteria but they did in deed meet the criteria in order to be nominated.

People are still crying about Obama and Palin, thats what we do in life.

The magical thing about voting is its free, we campain and stand up behind whom we want elected.

Not all will win, not all will lose. No use in complaining about whom got in or how, just be supportive.

Lots of crying over mass emails pushing people to vote. What do you think you are doing on this forum? ITs mass complaints over and over on how you dont agree on the process. It is no different than what your doing.

The people spoke now move on.

Koollay says..



I never took issue with where people get their products made, yes GHP's are made in Taiwan, not an issue...Not what this is about..

I do not care how many books Jeremy wrote, GH

Again not sure where your coming from? Is there a relevant point you are trying to make here? Comparing bike of the year to the HOF is really crazy, apples and oranges here...

What I dont understand is why the flaming now? When you voted you saw Jeremy's name up there, so why not sour then? Why now? Again your just not getting the deal here, nobody voted in McGrath..He was selected by the "committee" for fund raising, charity, marketing 101 as Shannon said earlier..

Koollay, your post just shows why the HOF voting should not be allowed by anyone who can sign onto the internet, research much?

I think Greg's comments on the US Cycling Hall of Fame are valid and they are certainly an excellent model.

However, anyone, including the public, can submit a nomination to the US Cycling Hall of Fame.

They too have special consideration in their selection committee for special circumstances, shops, teams, or anyone they deem by committe, not subject to vote, who might be placed in the US Cycling Hall of Fame. So, its the same.

Their model which is not all that different from the new BMX HOF model rewards people who have made significant contributions over the years. Last years was awesome in that there were people born in 1916 who were receiving recognition. It was cool to see Clayton in there as well as the other bmx racers now receiving their due recognition.

The HOF Banquet is the fund raiser not the HOF itself. I think that might have been out of context. I suppose you can hang on every little word and look for a nuance that might support a point. The ABA wants to send some kids to college, the banquet will help support that, the HOF supports that as a worthy endeavor, and that helps make BMX better. I don't see the big problem. I've been to the other Halls of Fame, and let me tell you, they too are profit motivated. You think MLB makes a few bucks off its players? I would give it a chance. Much of what is being barked about has already been fixed and developed into something that can be beneficial.

One last thing. I love the fact that guys like Marvin Church (Zero National Titles), Dennis Dain (same), Robby Rupe, Thom Lund, Jeff Bottema, Jeff Ruminer, Denny Davidow, Bob Haro, Eddie King, Perry Kramer, Mike Miranda,Tinker Juarez, Toby Henderson, Bob Hadley, Kevin Jackson, Byron Friday, Jeff Utterbackand many others like them who who never won a major pro national title are in the BMX Hall of Fame. Ty Cobb and The Babe probably didn't like some no name left fielder who batter 299 for 12 years getting in their HOF either, but it happens.

Congratulations again to the recent inductees and to their families and children.

Here are some cool facts about the baseball HOF:

Started June 1939 in Cooperstown, HOF actually started earlier than that though.

350,000 People Per year pay to walk its hall ways

The Hall of Fame has extensive outreach and education programs designed to help children

In 2006 there were 18 inductees.

There are many years with just 1 or 2, and several with 5-7 inductees

The National Baseball Hall of Fame often does "Tributes" to people who were around the sport and never played the game. They honor, without vote, people of the industry.

I don't believe Ty Cobb's legacy is any less at all that Jack Buck, an announcer, got props from Cooperstown. Jack never set foot on a field.

I look forward to seeing everyone in Chula Vista in September!

Let's look at the big picture here:

It is noted that ABA's BMX Hall of Fame is the only BMX Hall of Fame, and they have been financing and promoting it since 1985. The NBL has tried a Hall of Fame and it does not hold a candle to ABA's.

ABA is running a business, and at the same time trying to promote the sport of BMX. Maybe there are things they could have done differently over the years, but they are far head of their competition. The key here is that they are running a business, and moreover, it is their business. If they wanted to put Larry, Mo and Curly into the BMX Hall of Fame, they have every right to do it. But, they are not that short-sighted and stupid. They do want to do what's right for the sport, and giving Jeremy McGrath an honorary spot obviously was a move that in their eyes would spread the word of BMX and give it even greater legitimacy. The guy did begin his racing career in BMX.

I have to admit, when Greg first put his thoughts on here I had to agree with a lot of what he had to say. You can not take away Greg Hill's honesty and passion for BMX. When the dust settles, Greg Hill should always remain in this Hall of Fame, and he continues to go down in history as one of the all-times greats, if not THE all-time great of BMX.

Probably the point I agree with most is also a point that my old pal Gonzo from Texas makes. The voting process seemed to me as much more legitimate when ballots were sent to industry insiders to mail in their votes. I also was on this list, and took the voting process very seriously. I voted for Kevin McNeal every year until he was finally voted in. Life was unkind to McNeal, and he may have even been in jail when the award was given out, but that didn't take away from what he had accomplished in BMX.

I voted for Grubbs every year until he was inducted two years ago. I saved copies of my ballots every year. It was a BIG deal for me. When the voting went public on the internet, I thought that something important was lost.

I'm going to step up for Cash in a big way here as well. Yes, Cash was voted in at a time when the public voting was in effect. Cash is not only a popular guy, but he and Matt Raymer were a big part of what got Grubbs and the rest of us nobodies from the midwest inspired. If you look at what he did for BMX in the 1970's...to spread the gospel and get us charged up in the Central States, he would be in the Hall of Fame regardless of the voting process.

Does ABA need to look seriously at the whole process? Sure they do. And I guarantee you they are. But for God's sake, let's give this a rest for a while. Taking jabs about where frames are made, an attorney on here posting about not doing the math, but having opinions anyway...pass me a cold one!

Oh, and two more opinions no one asked for:

Bronco needs to be on the list next year.

There needs to be a category for Women.

A third opinion for good measure - Greg Hill shall remain in the National BMX Hall of Fame, regardless of his request at any given moment!