Very Nice JT... That was probably the most concise post in this thread... But we have to also consider the following in regards toEVOLUTION
Pure BMX Bikes are not only being addressed as SURVIVORS and I believe they still receive the respect and recognition at any event... but in reality, the true fact of the matter, is that if we were to go into the road of tweaking the other categories in and effort to make the "purist" stand out (Namely Custom, Modified or any other made up name to satisfy the interested), there wont be many bikes entering the "Pure 70's or 80's" categories... (If we were to make it right and "PURE" in the whole extent of the word) Let's start by saying that 80% of the bikes entered are being powder coated (Which was never available BITD), Or re-chromed (Using standards that have also evolved during the past 20 years), not to mention 90% of the bikes on display have at least 1 repop decal... and this would automatically send all these participant into the "Modified" class... So as you mentioned, our hobby is taking a turn for what is available out there to restore our projects.

The reason that every year these "Fully Restored" bicycles are growing in presence at the events is what have "displaced" the Original bikes into a Survivor category... SAD??? Oh YES!!!, VERY!!! (And is precisely the Category that needs to be addressed... I guess replacing the name survivor for "PURE"???) But,

I dont agree on pinning the results of a built on anyone's ability to cover the expenses to restore a bike; I think is purely a matter of quality of doing so, which in reality cost the same to all of us, and what is making people turn their heads is the detail given to these projects... We have to accept that the bikes taking the prize in most of the shows have taken our hobby into that direction... (Way before I even got here)... And this could mean that our community might like to go that way... or maybe it is simply implying that is the only way available.

Like I said in the other thread; We are beginning to follow the same path as the automotive collectors; why?, because at the rate we are going, there wont be any NOS quality parts to build a bike in a few years (And like they do, we are going to either fully restore all our parts, or start accepting the after market re issues / repops etc {God Forbid this last statement}); Why?, because most of the Exotic Stuff and the Historically important pieces have been already found, they have been shown at shows or in the forums and a huge majority is accounted for (This makes it even harder).

So what I'm trying to say here is, If we really want to go back to the way shows were 7 or 8 years ago, we will experience the biggest down fall in the history of collecting and restoring... Why?, Because the Historical parts or most of the Original parts / NOS Parts / Exotic Parts are worth many-many-many times over the price of what it would cost to restore in show quality any bike... And we will be very lucky if they are even made available to purchase...

I didn't mean any disrespect with this words...

I think your right Juan, I beleive the "custom" category is just fine the way it is in the VBMX rule book. If you change the color of a bike, it does not make it custom in my opinion. I only seen 1 bike that was out of it's class, there might have been more that I didn't see. The bike I seen was restored with a "non stock" color and parts, to me that does not make it custom. It should have been in the freestyle class. It was a really nice bike too. In the builders eyes he might have thought it was custom because it didn't come stock the way he built it? Ah, I'm going RETRO next year. No more cutting up bikes for me, too much trouble lol


Rob-

Actually Juan, the vast majority of mass produced frames BITD were powder coated. From early Mongoose to JMC, those were all powder coated.





Further, it is truly the survivor class that has been messed up here. The bling - bling carpet queens should not be classed and judged with the true 25+ year old original finish race machine still sporting its battle scars.

Battle scars FTW!

Yes Ken, thanks for clarifying on the powder coat... But that would make things even worse...

Lets take THE GJS FREESTYLER as an example (Not to mention 82% of all the class winners at Rockford since 2005)... Powder Over Chrome, all the parts either NOS, Chromed or Polished... In which scenario would we have to consider it a "Modified" or "Custom"???... Are we suggesting to "change" classes just because it was planned that it should be painted in a different color???...

CHECK THIS OUT:


I do believe, that we need to separate the True Survivor from the Stock build bikes, "YES"!!!, but like I said, Unless you know a lot of the History of an specific bike in "Survivor" condition, you are not going to see it even if it drops straight down in your head (Not even then because you would be probably dead after).

Should we leave rockford for the "purists" and start a whole new show?

LOL... Off Course Not!!!

What we need is to find a happy middle with out the need of creating 25 categories...

True Stock Bikes are AWESOME!!!, They have my unconditional respect, and they deserve the recognition...

Lets just allow the community to keep choosing the winners based on their liking.... Wait!!!

Did you just said "our own show"???.... hummm

I think the answer is an "UN-modified" class

Or get rid of the awards all together.

This may sound extreme. Hell, I won an award in '05. Was I excited? What do you think? Of course! I was stoked. I was on top of the world. But, when was I more proud: wheeling my bike into the event or when my bike was back in my room as I walked up to get the award?

I would honestly say it was when I was wheeling it in- it was people that were stoked to see what I brought.

Over the years, the event has changed greatly. I LOVE Rockford and the friends I have made in the past 5 years. And in the last 5 years I have also seen the event evolve from a grass roots operation to a serious event with serious investments involved.

I love looking at old school bikes. Making new and seeing old friends + old bikes is even more rewarding. Seeing people literally steaming mad or having to justify 300 hours of polishing because it's not BMX enough is sickening. Come on, it's their bike, let them do what they will.

The direction that Mike took Rockford this year is pointed the right way. I liked the split approach he took with the guests he had, it was like no other year that I have attended. The extras (the bag, printing details, the PLANNING) was first rate.

I truly appreciate the time that everyone puts into their bikes. From the show stopping, every detail dead nuts rides to the beat up 3 bar hidden in the corner, it's all BMX to me. Was I drooling on a chromed red GJS? Yeah, but I also voted for a "survivor" Tornado too.

For the record, this is the first year I have voted since 2005.

This is no means a dig on anyone that won an award at Rockford this past year or at any other time. The 2008 awards were cut, painted, designed and stickered in my basement here in MN. Awards are part of the event but are not the soul of the event.

Mike Carruth saw room for improvement and did indeed take eveything to the next level. Having to defend the way you build (or have not built, or it's heritage, or who once owned it) your bike and to call people out on the internets is not what RCKFRD is about. Bikes are bikes, if you want to bring a bike wrapped in duct tape, do it. If you want to bring a bike with triple show chorme with hubs machined from mood dust and unicorn horns, go for it. I'll be there to drool on it along with my buddies.

-Mike

Mike,

Would unicorn horn and mood dust hubs qualify as original, or would they put the bike into the Custom category?

Aishhhh... I wanted to bring the BudWeiser Chariot, But the Horses Are Era Incorrect...

Well said Mikko. I don't look forward to anything all year except going to Rockford, and I shoot pool in Vegas every year and used to look forward to that. I think Mike is doing a GREAT job. This was my third Rockford and it gets better every year. Mike, if you ever need my help I'm here.


Rob-

Okay, here's another idea if it hasn't already been said:

Mike, how about you make a "wish list" of things people could do next year that would help you out a lot... take some weight off your shoulders. Real specific responsibilities that just one (or more) people could focus on. Not too much so they can still enjoy the event, but enough that that one thing would be taken care of. Then, well in advance of Rkfd2010, post this list and take volunteers.

Cash said....."The bikes out at the track are part of the culture of rockford and very good for bmx in general. Please keep that alive. There is so much room at rockford you could have it further back in the park if you wanted to as there is MASSIVE room there. People would still come there I am confident. In fact, if you put it way back there, that would be the furthest any racer would have ridden his bike the whole weekend. It might also squelch the other vendors from being offended. We are a big enough group now that we need our own space but still be at the track."

this is exactly what I was thinking.

Yeah, that's what I've been saying too, and I sure hope it's considered. That grove among the trees seems arbitrary (there's no reason it has to be right there is there?). The show has outgrown it. It would be nice for it to be accessible though, and would draw the attention of the modern racers, we wouldn't want it to be so far out there that no one else knows about it. There's gotta be a spot.

Ok here is my 2 cents That weekend is so big for BMX !!!! How about bring in the Dew tour or summer Xgames there for the big sport of BMX ,the kids and them riding a bike for fun!!!!!!!!!!! As for a line up all 16",20" in one spot 24", 26",29",700c. Now that would be a REAL BIG SHOW............................................................................
.....................................................!

Funny, I was out at the Rockford track this past weekend for a normal Non-National race. Okay, I TOTALLY understand now why it has to be a National weekend. There was maybe only 100 people there total. Parked right by the bleachers even. Not the right mood at all for the Rockford show. It was still great, just not the right atmosphere.

Is there a date for Rockford 2010 yet?

X

Saturday June 19th of course the festivities start Thursday and last thru Sunday

Mike D is there every year maybe he can headline da show? Or the chill session

Mike D. is taking part of the biggest freestyle display ever to take place anywhere in the world with Mark gray ( Restoration nation article writer in BMX Plus! ) that will blow peoples minds and should win at least the best presentation award ( if there is one ) if not best in freestyle so hold on to your hats because knowone has ever seen anything of this magnitude in the history of BMX displays!!!!.TOP SECRET........

June 18 (Friday) will be the Site Supporter Breakfast in the morning, the Swap Meet in the late afternoon, followed by the "Chill" session in the evening.

Saturday will be the "museum" show, then the announcement of the winners at the track...followed by the banquet and guest speaker in the evening.

As for a "best display" award, I don't see it happening. I have considered this extensively, and I am convinced that having such an award would set off an "arms race" of people one-upping the other guy with elaborate displays (remember, that before I announced that we would not have a best display award, I had requests for water lines and three-phase power (to run a waterfall and an ice cream freezer, respectively). The focus should be on the BIKES, in my opinion. A perfectly-executed build can outshine any waterfall or ice cream machine, even if it is sitting on the grass with nothing else around... some might say "especially."

Best,

M

"As for a "best display" award, I don't see it happening. I have considered this extensively, and I am convinced that having such an award would set off an "arms race" of people one-upping the other guy with elaborate displays (remember, that before I announced that we would not have a best display award, I had requests for water lines and three-phase power (to run a waterfall and an ice cream freezer, respectively). The focus should be on the BIKES, in my opinion. A perfectly-executed build can outshine any waterfall or ice cream machine, even if it is sitting on the grass with nothing else around... some might say "especially."


Ditto

How about a category best number plate?

Man this next gathering is starting to sound like a circus




3 phase power for a water feature and ice cream machine? How come my pool and A/C in AZ only needed single phase? JEEEEEZUS



exactly, it should

I thought this was about bikes....

How about biggest dork award.

I am getting ready to release the first round of information for Rockford 2010 coming up on or about January 19 (the T-minus-five-months mark)

So far I have two of three guests tentatively scheduled (and the Saturday night guest is going to be an out-of-the-park favorite, I guar-ron-tee), and will finish up on some of the other outlining details this week.

I am also going to revisit the rules for the show, and will start a separate thread for your ideas on that topic specifically.

Meanwhile, give a quick read to this thread again and let me know if you have come up with any other ideas since last we spoke.

Looking forward to seeing all of you in 167 days!!


Best,

M

There was not enough COW BELL last year!

Thank you and I hope to see/hear a major improvement on this in 2010. heheehhe....

Now that's funny !

Rob

Here is the display I was talking about already shown at Woodward West Old School reunion

That was a great idea.. very cool and I'm sure Mike D. loved as did everybody..

It looks really cool... AWESOME Winter project and I'm certain everyone is loving it... Even ESPN is using it as their Video Frame.

Great Job Buddy!!!

I AM GOING TO AGREE THIS YEAR NEEDS WAY MORE COWBELL