TTT!

I just came across this pic of my flatland rider from a couple years ago...hmmmmm

Is this the new I H8 JDB thread??

**settles in**

I think John should hire some new or old pros to help design the new bike. Asking a bunch of collectors is not the route in my mind. Not that there aren't good ideas here but there are allot of people here who just want one to hang up and color co-ordinate or ride around the block twice to say they ride. Again. Since Woody still rides how about a hiring him on. He seems to be interested in owning a modern version. He helped design the original. He even had input on the GT Show if I remember correctly. Maybe sponsor his entire show. You would get the name out there too. If your not a frame designer either leave it to people that know or just copy the old design and leave it at that for the wall hangers. Dont forget the logoed shipping box.

Oh and for those of you against larger tubing, dont forget that just because the diameter is larger does not mean that the thickness is the same. It can also have butted tubing if wanted.

John? Have you settled on a design yet? The one thing I keep seeing out of the old school guys is an aversion to the new internal headsets. While I agree that internal would not be good, you should definately do an integrated headset. I have found that most of the old school guys that dont like them have never used one. They seem to think all new school headsets are the same. Most have only used an internal one (mostly on racing bikes) and hate the look of the bigger head tube. Integrated headsets do not need the bigger headtube. In freestyle 100% of the good frames are using an integrated headset. The only time you see an old style headset with cups is on complete bikes where they are trying to save money. Here are the differences between the 2 new school designs...

INTEGRATED
Integrated headsets don't require a cup. Instead, the headtube of the frame is machined with the proper taper and the bearing sits directly in the frame, creating a clean, flush look. Installation is as easy as placing the bearings in the headtube. No special tools or hammers needed - perfect for the home mechanic. Almost every new chromoly frame uses an integrated headset.

INTERNAL
An Internal headset is similar in look to an Integrated, but it requires a thin aluminum cup to be pressed into the frame. The cups are easier to install than a standard headset and sit flush with the headtube. Internal headsets are generally used on aluminum race frames that aren't designed to deal with the extra stress of Integrated.

I have been using an integrated headset for about 4 years now and will never go back. It is vastly superior to standard cupped designs. As a bonus it is lighter and looks cleaner.

The design for the entire Trick Star is complete. That includes the frame, fork, bars, stem, and a few other detail items.

It will have an integrated head tube.

Sorry I can't post pictures yet...for obvious reasons.

Nice. Can't wait.

THAT IS SICK !!!!

Any idea of when it will be available? Ball-Park price?

First, I would figure out the pedal problem before making more parts.

I am gonna guess 550. for this new hutch,


Same here I do not think he wants a problem with the frames breaking.

I would definately pay $550 for a brand new TS. Especially since I paid $500 for the new retro Haro Freestyler. I honestly hope that this new TS has all of the unique qualities of the original w/only subtle, modern upgrades. Integrated headset, 990 mounts, etc. The standing platform, head-tube gusset, and loop-tail design HAVE to stay intact! The fork and rear frame stands can go. Whether this is a limited run or mass produced, people will buy it. When I would ride my retro Freestyler u wouldn't believe how many people would come up to me and ask where I got it. Or where can they get one. It sucked telling them they only made 500. Hopefully this new TS will be ready for next spring/summer.

Someone will break the new frame regardless of how well made it is. This happens all of the time. You can only engineer to typical usage and there has to be tolerance limits, especially when people are demanding it to be light as well.

That was the icing on the cake that sank Hutch. Remember project Aluminum.

No way will I pay over $500 for a new school Trickstar F & F! At most $285! Maybe $600 for a complete bike though built with good parts.

For a F & F, I'd rather get this - http://www.flatlandfuel.com/index.asp?Page...amp;ProdID=1562

$600 for a complete flatland bike with good parts? With the highest of all quality I'm assuming? I just spent $575 for "good" cranks, sprocket, rims, pegs, tensioners, grips, tubes, tires, brake cable, and a stem. Not hi-end stuff either and some of the items on sale.

$600 is an unrealistic price point for a high quality COMPLETE new flatland bike IMHO. Maybe you'll find a used flatland bike on eBay at that price.

That F&F combo is a pretty good deal if you like zero rake forks and stems. Go for it. I think a better deal is the Strowler frame with the $1 Odyssey fork deal at flatlandfuel if Pat still offers it.

Pat is the coolest dude.

$500+ is prices for classic old ebay Hutch Trickstar F & Fs. I got mine, F & F & Hutch Handlebars powdercoated blue for $530.

My recent buy, an 09 Eastern Metalhead modded with 4 Tree Stick pegs and an ebay Uni seat + Diamondback Scuffer Locking Levers - cost me $488 total and it's my lightest and best and main ride bmx bike now at 27.55 lbs too! But it needs better brake pads, the Tektros suck! So $22 more!

So it is possible to get an ok bike for $600. But those KHEs are nice but they are too weak, like the Paris3 is built nice but I heard the frame is too weak.

Sell a high end kitted Hutch Trickstar for $1200 and weighs 21 lbs with F & R brakes and I'll buy it!

With all due respect, what does the price of your eBay F&F have anthing to do with the new Trick Star? I've seen OG Trick Star frame and forks go for a lot more than $500 on eBay.

The going Retail price for an US-Made frame (S&M, Standard, FBM, etc) is just under $400. a Quality Overseas frame is $300-$375 (give or take a few bucks).
I'd say then that $500 for a new Trickstar is a realistic price to expect.

To expect a $600 price point for a complete Trickstar, yet insist on US-Made quality is unrealistic. At $600 price point, a complete Trickstar would be 100% overseas made, with generic catalog parts.
Just like your Eastern Metalhead.
-Bill

$500 for a newschool Trickstar F & F is just gouging us and I'd rather buy something else! The Eastern Grim Reaper 2 used to be $400 but now dropped to $299 - way more affordable. For a classic retro Trickstar, I'd pay ebay prices. For a newschool Trickstar F & F, I'd rather pay $280 to $350. Anymore and I'll think of something else...

http://www.danscomp.com/211369.php?cat=FRAMESFSD#

I wouldn't mind if he outsourced Giant to make the new Trickstar...

And then maybe I'll just be happy with my 86 Trickstar instead...

Gouging? Lets take your KHE Paris 3 for example. Hi-end no doubt. $449 for frame only. Average flatland fork, $100. That's $549 give or take $20 on the fork right there. IF the new Trick Star is indeed a for real hi-end flatland frame, $500 for the frame AND fork sounds within range. But the whole arguement is moot and conjecture at this point. JDB sets the price, not us.

It was someone else here who suggested $500 for a Trickstar F & F. That's just too much for me. I passed up the Eastern Grim Reaper 2 when it was $400. Now I can get it for $265 and that's a price I can handle. You guys saying you'd pay $500 might give John the wrong ideas on making the Trickstar too expensive. Well, it's gotta compete with the modern flatland bikes out there, and for $349 I can get a Dragonfly Solo kit -- http://www.flatlandfuel.com/index.asp?Page...amp;ProdID=1562

And Hutch pedals are too expensive! I gotta pair of original oldschool ones and cracked the left body. Showed it to John at Rockford and he stiffed me saying that he won't sell single cage cast bodies. So those expensive Hutch pedals CRACK and I'll just settle for cheap and lightweight Animal Hamilton pedals that have the classic "Shimano DX" design. John won't support you guys here with cracked Hutch $189 pedals so if you freestyle on them hard and break them you gotta buy a new pair! No crash replacement policy so no way am I gonna ride Hutch pedals again. They are just for show bikes! - To make you look rich!

I gotta badass 86 Trickstar too. Good freestyle geometry and jumps well but those fork pegs are a major nuisance. They are like useless annoyances built too short. Yeah, I'll pass on a $500 Trickstar F & F and might not buy it.

Well, John gotta make $$ for his investments but I hope he don't gouge us. And he doesn't have to hide the Trickstar design or details here when he has the full mfg rights to Hutch. So he should just spill the beans and details of the new Hutch Trickstar so we can give him feedback. And my feedback is $500 is too expensive!

But I don't like the KHE Paris3 because they make it too lightweight and breakable / easily cracks and bends. It's probably expensive from the material costs of it's fancy tubing. I thought about making a custom trailer but freaked out how expensive aluminum and steel tubing is!

The Eastern Grim Reaper 2 Frame at $265 is what I'd get. But I settled for cheap on a modded 09 Eastern Metalhead with probably the same geometry for $488 total and 27.55 lbs weight. Way within my budget when I felt like I didn't want to spend $1800 for a complete custom built Grim Reaper 2 at 19 lbs with F & R brakes.

Well, we should hear out the details of the new Trickstar here. Us oldschool fans are the potential buyers of this F & F anyway.

My 09 Eastern Metalhead is an awesome enough bike for the price. $325 on sale + $21 each Tree Stick pegs + $48.95 ebay Uni seat [rest is stock] So what if it's not all 100% 4130 cromoly. Hi tensile steel on not highly stressed out parts is ok. It is a great compromised budget $488 bike that weighes 27.55 lb and I got the guys at the skatepark drooling over it! Their expensive 24.6 lb brakeless bikes... mine only weigh 3 lbs more and got F & R brakes!

Now I'd pay $500 for a titanium Eastern Grim Reaper 2 ... because it's titanium... saw this dream bike I'd like to have rather than a Trickstar! http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/eastern/29566

Ok, if John's gonna sell a complete bike just deck it out with the best parts so we don't have to spend money to change out stuff. Like those waste of money Haro retro bikes with their substandard HEAVY parts. Bought a 2006 Haro Sport retro - heavy seatpost, seat, pegs, and didn't like the color combinations. Changed out those parts and it just drained my money... Next time Haro should just sell some nice retro F & F sets because he builds his retro bikes up with junk parts!

I think this talk on price got a little off track somewhere. The first person to mention the $550 price was talking about a complete bike. Not a f/f. If this new TS is indeed sold as a complete with standards equalling that of the original (pre Tai), but with todays modern upgrades (subtle like I suggested above) Then I would think $550 would be more than a fair price. I understand everyone's concerns with wanting nothing but the best. But let's remember how long we've been waiting for something like this to happen. Let's just wait and see how this project develops before we start slamming the man.

I can't truly afford $500 for an F and F either but you have to remember things made in the USA in small batches cost a lot more to make. Costs drop when you make a large amount of something. Remeber what the Kappa frames were going for? It was a lot more than that...

And while we are on the subject, iluv you keep bringing up your eastern metal head like it is some kind of benchmark so lets use it as a benchmark. The frame is a cheap overseas steel frame with a chromoly top and down tubes. The components are generic run of the mill overseas components. IS the bike a good deal for the money? Yes. I used to be an eastern dealer and my daughter rides a traildigger so it is not like I am an Eastern hater, but seriously man there is no comparison.