Please no hating on this topic, but it seems wierd to me to see all these cool builds on here and than you put Tuff Wheels on it. I know Richie Anderson, Andy Patterson, John Crews, Toby Henderson, PK rocked them BITD. but all of them were on Graphites. If you werent on Graphites all others were on lower end bikes or freestyle stuff. I kind of think the same of ASC Z-rims. Both rims flexed alot and never seemed as prevdelant with the racing scene. I know I will probably get lit up on this, but if it was a cool tribute bike to a rider that rode them cool, otherwise alloys do it for me. \\

Flamesuit on

You forgot Cheri Elliott. The most dominant and consistant bmx racer of her time. And if i remember correctly i did see her race atleast one time on non graphites. When the hot bmx frame color went from chrome to white, I saw Cheri at a race with a brand new white ta frame and fork. The first one i had ever seen in white. She also had white tuff wheels on her bike. It looked awsome. And of course she won by a mile.

Mx Mug

Don't forget Denny Davidow too!

jk

While I road tuffs bitd, and do now, I switch back and forth, true you have to worry a little about flex and weight, I liked them becuase they changed the "feel of the road"? Also Ive blown up a couple of fronts racking out on curbs, not pretty and verrry loud, my fav was using a gas station car tire pump to fill my front tire, and when I hooked it up, nothing happened, and the guy noticed and said "you gotta step on that there" so I stepped on it. What he didnt tell me was you stood on it for a car tire, not a bike tire. The tube blew up about 1 foot from my face, tearing the tire up and shattering the tuff. I still dont know how I kept my hearing.

If you're not big on the tuffs then you're gonna HATE my 08 Retro Ripper....when I get around to building it.

I remember when they first came and I never liked the looks of them. After Motomags, I went to spoke wheels and that was it. Something rattling in the back of my mind tells me I had a rear Tuff for a minute, I just didn't dig the look so I took it off.

It really just comes down to,
to each; his own.
Or bmx beauty is in the eye of the oakley grip beholder.

Mx Mug

Oh oakley plug!

I hope I didnt offend anyone with this post. I was just wondering. Like I said most racers were on alloys. Most of the people ( guys and Girl, Cherri Kicked A** ) that rode them were sponsored by Skyway. I was just wondering, seem to see so many builds with tuffs 20 and 24's

I personally prefer spoked wheels, but my main rider does have tuffs. As much as I case landings trying to relive my youth, I would have destroyed alloys by now.

My favorites were actually the a'me unitron but somehow oakley sounded more poetic.

Mx Mug

I hear ya! It's alllllllll goooooood!

In some cases we just didn't know any better. Went from Tuff II's, to Z-Rims with cheap Shimano hubs to Araya 7X's with sealed sunshines. I think I ended up saving like 2 pounds it seemed. But I never bent the Tuffs or Z Rims.

I like the tuffs because they seem to add personality and character.

I was riding when Tuffs first came out.
They were wicked looking alternatives to spokes, and they were nearly indestructible. I bent many a rim doing insane jumps and other tricks. Tuffs just held up better for me.
As collector and restorer, Tuffs offer a bit of nostalgia. They take me back to that saturday afternoon in the 1970s when I saw my first Schwinn Scrambler at Uncle Harolds hobby and bike shop. They looked the business.
They still do.

I guess one of the reasons you may see a lot of Tuffs on Rebuilds is that they are still available although not tuff 1's or true tuff 2's they are still skyways and are very similar to the originals. The other reason could be that once a alloy was damaged BITD it was tossed away where as the tuffs were much harder to destroy to the point of unusable so there maybe more original tuffs available than decent alloys from BITD. This is only a wild guess but i think some valid reasons.
Im Torn as to what i like more but then certain builds just look better with one or the other.

Cheers
Richie

Man, this topic just makes me wanna spill my guts about my retro Ripper build!

I raced on weekends but all during the week we rode all the trails and streets; alloy rims would have been toast and since I couldn't afford an extra set just for racing, I rolled on ACS-Z-rims with bullseye hubs for my entire racing "career". I was a very smooth rider as opposed to pure power, more like Gregg Grubbs than Greg Hill, so I never bent them or felt any flex. Just one example, but they worked for me.

What retro Ripper?

jk

I am willing to bet some of the pros got paid to run these items back then, with the number plate sticker contigency and all- I don't blame them, if somebody would have paid me to run tuffs I would have given it some serious consideration....

I think it was Greg Hill who posted on here that he ran Tuffs in one race. He finished low took them off and gave them their sponsorship money back.

I think you really only see tuffs on 3 types of restored bikes, Rippers, Geese and Skyways. I don't think I have ever seen any on JMCs, VDCs, Profiles or some other high end racer. The usually have spoked bullseyes, phils etc..

Lets face it back in the day you had 1 bike, you rode it, you jumped it, you raced it , you did everything on it. If you were a fairly aggressive rider, jumper, racer your alloys would never hold up. For those who couldnt afford to replace them all the time the skyway or z rims were the alternative. I remember when z-rims came out I thought it was the greatest thing ever. I didnt like the feel of the tuffs and I tore up far too many sets of alloys so the zs were ideal for me. I rode them the entire time from the day they came out to my last days of bmxing. Now today would be a different story, I would have a racebike and a rider to go beat on.

here's me in second chasing carl green in bradenton fl 1981.

flbmxcop (greg,member of this site) winning in orlando fl '81 or '82. i'm not sure if those are graphites. maybe he'll chime in. there's a couple of examples of people doing well with them.

im not a fan either of tuff wheels.

the graphites i dig but nothing else;

but really, if were gonna get into it lets get into colored tires. CANT stand them!!!!

even worse is a colored tuff with a non matching colored tire

but its just my opinion. i respect what floats boats.

There's no doubt that people could ride fast with tuffs, and could win. Denny Davidow did well with tuffs. No doubt.

I never tried them till 1985 or so. I tried to ride them a few times in the freestyle era when they were making a comeback and everybody had them on the GT performers and such, like 1985-86, and I did not like them , at that time. Too mushy feeling. I never tried them in the 1970's and early 80's, but I remember thinking in 1985, "how did those guys race on those things like 5 or 6 years ago?"

2 words; down hill.

Dont forget in the down hill/heavy duty era people were competitve on moto mags! Tuff wheels were lighter than motomags so they were really part of the transition from heavy duty to the lightwieght era in bmx racing.

Plus, to this day I think they look cool.

Mx Mug

i think black tuffs with black tires look pretty aggressive. plus, back in the flat turn/ foot down days of old, if you "accidently" stuck your foot into someones spoked alloy wheel... spokes broke. however, stick your foot into a tuff wheel... foot broke. and the rider with the tuffs becomes a new member of the OTB club.LOL!
mike

They look(ed) cool and were(are) a cheap way to get rolling.

she was fast BITD.

don't forget Eddie Sigmund #1, Mike Salido #11 and there was another 16-17x back in 1983 that was fast in my last picture. #9

Andy Patterson is the bottom picture.

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage....0164&po=164

here is a photo of me racing some graphites at Lone Star BMX in San Antonio. 8-2008

if i could have got the tires mounted smoother, i would have raced them more. it just felt a little bumpy with the holy rollers on them.

That's a rad pic.

I rarely got to the track as a kid in the early 80's so while I thought of myself as a BMX racer I was really a pre-freestyle era rider. So I liked a front brake and Tuff's. I really wasn't too sophisticated or knowledgeable about what worked & what didn't. I learned from magazines, the LBS and other kids in the neighborhood. I figured out I could have a warped back rim or roll Tuff's. In fact as I think about it 1979-1984 went by so fast that I never got my fill of BMX as a youth; that's why I have a basement full of BMX stuff. Thanks to the internet I have alloy hub Tuff II's and Ukai speedlines with Bullseye's
So bottom line for me I like the tough look & durability of Tuff's but I also appreciate the beauty of rims.

Well said.

What year did the first Tuffs come out, verses what year did alloys come out? I think they were the transitional wheel between the heavy duty era and the light weight era. I remember when the graphites came out, many said they were lighter than alloys or very close but much stronger. I am talking rotating weight not overall since the hub area may have weighed more.

Changstar

I have been a fan of Tuffs since 1979 or earlier. As a kid I remember seeing the bikes in the shop with Tuff 1's and thought they were so cool. Weight wasn't an issue yet as I wasn't racing.
I destroyed all my alloy wheels, both Arayas and Ukais so I tried the Tuffs. I was also becoming a huge fan of Jeff Watson around this time and Tinker Juarez too. Both guys looked awsome flyin out of skateparks with Tuffs and motomags so I loved them since. All my bikes have Tuffs including my newschool cruiser and my sons bike has both Alloys or Tuffs depending on his mood. My daughters new bike will have them also.
I love the look of quality alloy wheels like 7bs or even steelies. I will have steelies on my monoshock soon.
Some alloys look fast standing still and thats cool.
Oh and I raced my PK with first gen Graphites too in 82-83 and it looked awsome. I was a crap racer anyway.

x2 word for word.

I trashed alloys, and couldn't afford to keep replacing them. I went to Z's, from teh day they came out, and rode the same pair for a loooong time.

I also used to use a mismatched set of red and blue tuff wheel IIs for some of those long all day training rides, and for gate start practice, due to the extra weight. Switching back was like walking on the moon. (Anchor training). I could also put a beating on them without remorse as well if the opportunity came up.

Then I ran a used set of graphites, and I loved them, but I broke the rear fairly quickly, and couldn't afford to buy new ones in the first place, finding and replacing just one, or buying a new set, wasn't an option. I switched to Graphite Z's, and that was the last set of wheels I ever bought until the bike was stolen. They were my favorite wheels ...ever.

Tuff's were a "Close, but no cigar" wheel for me bitd. Standards were too heavy, and Graphites were not tough enough, and out of my price range. To do it all over again with more money, I would have 3 bikes. A Sting Comp. with a set of standard Tuffs for anchor training and lake jumping, mud grinding, etc... A Sting with both, a set of Graphite Tuff's, and a set of Graphite Z's to swap out for racing depending on my mood. And a Sting Comp. with standard nylon Z's and lots of spare spokes and inner tubes for the majority of all my hard use and riding. In short, one for abuse, one for use, and one for racing.

Life usually does not offer an optimum choice like that though.


IMO they all simply served different purposes. Tuff's were simply maintenance free, aside from lube. There's something huge to be said for that.

I never had any interest in alloy rims, of any brand, or type, once I laced up my first set of Z's. First choice... Z's, second choice ...Graphite Tuff's, and alloy for me was not an option. I hated to even ride anyone's bike with alluminum rims, for fear of having to spend my limited money to buy them a new rim for the one that I destroyed in 30 seconds. Want to ride this one?...No thanks, I don't wan't to pay for it after I break it, lol.

BTW, If you ride a set of the new Graphite Tuff's they will answer the "Why" question in short order. They are indeed the smoothest set of wheels I have ever ridden on. Can't describe it, you just have to try 'em. ... Like silk underwear. ...Or so I've heard... lol.

I had 3 bikes eventually. My Supergoose skatepark bike, my Motomag thrasher and my PK race bike. All had Tuffs.
The PK before it had the Graphites.

And the thrasher that I still own as well as the Supergoose.


BTW I hated colored tires and still do.

Why Tuffs ?

Because when I was a kid I had a heck of a time getting my parents to buy me parts, and Tuffs were the last wheel I'd need, because they were bulletproof...."well sort of"

Because as a "grown" kid I have a heck of a time getting my wife to let me by parts, and Tuffs are the last wheel I'll need because they are bulletproof..."well sort of"

Tuffs rock, then and now !

I am liking the answers I am getting. My first Webco had Tuff 1's. My parents bought it for me at D&D bike shop in Westland when it was still a house and they pulled the bikes out front everyday. I agree they were good for a kid to beat up on. I won my first race on a set of Tuff 1's. But being at the track and seeing what the "racers" were riding I knew I needed alloys. My Dad found a used set for sale by a local racers dad ( Monk Walerious) and picked them up for 20 bucks ( blue araya w suzue hubs). I mounted them up at the track and practiced after the races were done and relegated the Tuffs for my "trick" bike later down the road. Cool phots everyone

I upgraded my Murray X20R with black Tuff IIs that I got for Christmas. They were great, and I used the same pair on my CW after the Murray broke. A year or two later, I got a set of sealed Suzue/Arayas for my birthday. Right away, I cleared the step-up jump at the local track, which I'd never been able to do riding Tuffs. So as a 15-year-old fat kid, I realized that the lighter weight of alloys really did make a difference, and I sold the Tuffs to a classmate shortly thereafter.

Aesthetically, I don't think Tuffs work too well on race builds. They tend to make bikes look too chunky or over-colored. So I wouldn't go out of my way to put them on a build. But, I do have a set of blue Tuff IIs kicking around, and if I ever build my T/A, I'll probably give them a shot on that and see how it looks.

Why Tuffs?

Very easy, grew up riding in the same spots as Skyway's Factory rider Bob Medrano..... The jumps and grounds he built just wouldn't hold up with alloys. Alloys always endded up trashed. Since my love of catching big air and being able to clear the "Medrano" doubles I had to be sure I had a strong enough wheel. I also felt more in control with graphite tuffs than alloys while catching big air. Dont get me wrong though, I loved arayas with Philwood hubs and DT spokes when I wanted to go fast.

But also having being able to get a hold of some pre owned Richie Anderson Graphite campy tuffs back in the day might have also caused the urge. A Skyway T/A in white with campy graphites just looked too tough back in the day...... Till this day, I still own that very set of campy graphites that came from Ritchie as well as several others.

Z rims had a really interesting characteristic. If you landed a hard kick out the rim would fold over and then snap back straight. I never broke a z rim, but i did crack a rear acs hub hub.
Mx Mug

Oh, so now you want photos... There's always a catch. lol.




Someone gave me this one of me a while back.

The shadow kinda sets it apart in the Tuff wheel category. ...

So how does the repop today graphites compare with the originals? Any changes made to design or material? I had the old style with the Campys and loved them till a pedal caught my front wheel and mae a crack n one of the struts causing the wheel to be warped. A few years later I tried some newer graphite that had a sealed bearing hub. Those felt slugish and flexy on the gate, made my 43/16 feel like a 44/16. Never rode any since. Just wondered how the new ones are today.

Changstar

The new ones are better...they tend to be straighter/ more true than the old Tuffs, and they all can be had with sealed bearings ! I think they are made in the same molds as the 80s Tuffs, so they look great, however some have claimed that the new colors vary slightly from the old Tuffs.

I think grafite tech has come a long way in 25 years, so the new grafite wheels are probably a far superior than the old...

I ran skyways bitd.I mainly ran them at local events and just out thrashing but for the war of stars which they were called bitd i would run ambrosias with parker hubs to shed some weight.I guess i thought that running the mags would help build my leg strength up.I imagin all the tuff wheel haters were always being smoked by someone with tuffs on.There was a rider with the last name of pittman that ran logansport and around indiana that ran mags and he was fast.

I ran Tuff 1's my first season 1979, this is the first race ever at Lime Rock CT, I swear I had a coaster brake on them, did Tuff 1's only have coaster brake??





Then I used graphite Tuffs on and off in 81 and 82 for something different, I could never tell if they hurt or helped, we used to trade rims, frames, etc all the time, I had 2 different pairs of graphites but didnt buy either, this is also Lime Rock, 16X, August 1981 first jump:



This is the NBL Grands 1982 at South Park PA 17X class over the step jump:

If I had the extra cash to throw at a joke that nobody would get, I've thought of getting some yellow Tuffs for my Supercross. Being blue with bright yellow frame stickers, yellow mags would give it a nice nice late 60s Sunoco Camaro Trans Am racer vibe.

What I'd really like, are some blue Z rims. I've got some old unsealed hubs I could lace them into, but I'd have to go stainless spokes on them.

I like (ed) tuffs because they lasted longer then any aluminum rim.