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Freewalt
Reluctantly thinking about putting my 6N in clips. Forgetting the "clips versus flats" debate, if you have a little guy in clips, what are they running?

Thanks!
MikeCarruth
Bump.

jj
Uh oh... I can feel the stampede coming with the clips vs flats battle!!


Freewalt, I'm awfully partial to Times. Get the ones with the platform. Time Z's.
Eldiablo
2 sets Shimano 545's for the boyz and Shimano 520 for my 7G.
obsessive
if your a weight weenie like me, xpedo is hard to beat. Plus, they are a fabulous pedal.

Tk77
I started my boy on cageless shimanos just berfore he turned seven. He took to them better than i did and has had no troubles for the last two seasons.
Freewalt
The thought of my kid attached to the bike is still a tough one for me to get over, but him losing interest because he can not compete is a tough one also. I am really on the fence with this decision.

Knowing nothing about how these work or all the "tweeking" involved, of course I just find the lightest pair possible--the Xpedo MF-A1 Ti/Ti. Then I learn that they work like snow boots and bindings, which makes me believe (with no experience) that they would be more difficult for a 6 year old to get in. So then I am told of the Xpedo MF-5 AL/TI which have two "clicker-things" that make them easier to get in cuz the kid just needs to push down, instead of toe first then heal, like the ti/ti. I'm like sounds great! Then I learn that the lbs of pressure needed to push into the MF-5ís is probably more then a 6 year old can push. wacko2.gif

Guys, I'm absolutely lost on this and just wanna make this safe and easy if we go clipless.

What about the XTR PD-M970?

Please help.

jf
Eldiablo
Freewalt the deciding factor for me was when I realized it was safer for her(my 7G) to move to clips because as she got faster(in a hurry) she would slip her flats. Now I believe in spin to win so a regear was not an option. by this point she was balancing well in the gate and mentally she knew with clips she would stay on her pedals and it will make her faster. The Shimano 520 is easy to adjust and is durable

PS Her crashes hurt the same with or without clips!
Freewalt
QUOTE (Eldiablo @ Jan 23 2009, 12:52 PM) *
Freewalt the deciding factor for me was when I realized it was safer for her(my 7G) to move to clips because as she got faster(in a hurry) she would slip her flats. Now I believe in spin to win so a regear was not an option. by this point she was balancing well in the gate and mentally she knew with clips she would stay on her pedals and it will make her faster. The Shimano 520 is easy to adjust and is durable

PS Her crashes hurt the same with or without clips!




Thanks for the input. So when see falls she unclips every time? How was she learning the "ski-boot" type clip in?
4bmxers
times are so easy to work - great for the younger rider. That is what my little guy used and uses. We tried the shimanos at first and then the time - it was amazing the difference on how fast that he caught on with the time.
desertrat
Pretty partial to Crank brothers myself- I'll be starting my kids on them, too. No adjustments, and easy to get in and out of. Smartees or Acids would be fine for a kid
Justin Miller
I vote Shimano.
My son runs the shimanos and there is such a huge range of adjustment in the insertion tension that I started him out with them super loose/easy to get in and out until he got used to them and then tightened them up.

Whatever you pick make sure they can clip in on both sides if there is a cage involved. Nothing worse then flipping the pedal to the right side when the cadence starts!

I run crank bros. mallets and I have not had issues with them, but a guy I race with has had problems with popping out at the gate until he adjusted his cleats to allow his ankle to kick out slightly.
jsnbuck
I put my son on Shimano 520s two years ago and he is still using them. I backed the tention all the way off and have not tightened it since. He has the same pedas on his cruiser and pit bike.
gars
my at the time 7 year old son we tried the times he could not clip out of them we tried for a week in the yard with them just too hard for him. I bought the shimano 520's put the tension on the lightest tension he clipped in and out no problems at all. he loves them think i'm going to upgrade to the ones with the cage for better balance in the gate. also he has never not came unclipped in a crash.
payloan
I am one for clips even on the little guys but I must tell you what you don't want to hear........wait....just a little! Make sure your child can balance in the gate with flats...COMPLETE BALANCE and can get a decent start make sure that your child can get over ALL obstacles around the track and last but certainly not least make sure that your child understands about pedaling through the finish line. If you put your child on clips before then then they will become counterproductive very quickly. Once you do move to clips stay with a Shimano adjustable and loosen them up all the way and DO NOT take him to the track, but rather to an open grass area with maybe some knee pads and let him pedal clip and clip until he is 100% use to them. This could probably take a week or two.
josh451
XPEDO
deluxx bmx
I second the Crank Bros...even with the problems I had with them...my sons used them for a year now with no problems at all....light and easy to get in...get the mullets with the cage..even if hes not clipped in he can still go without a hitch...Good Luck
Justin Miller
QUOTE (deluxx bmx @ Jan 23 2009, 06:28 PM) *
get the mullets with the cage


I run the Crank Bros. Mallets and keep my hair cut real short in the back. I used to have an awesome mullet back in 89' though.
staats bmxer
I say let him learn how to ride a bike first, Speed will come weather he is on flats or clips. I ride clips and I wish i never have because there like drugs easy to get on and harder to get off. Let him learn to balance and ride before you clip in you said he was a 6n? My son is five im not letting him until he can ride and balance if ever I let him. You don't need to clip in to win! lol let him have fun I think younger kids have to much pressure put on them its just bmx have fun just a thought good luck with whatever you decide on.
mxmug
QUOTE (staats bmxer @ Jan 24 2009, 04:11 AM) *
I say let him learn how to ride a bike first, Speed will come weather he is on flats or clips. I ride clips and I wish i never have because there like drugs easy to get on and harder to get off. Let him learn to balance and ride before you clip in you said he was a 6n? My son is five im not letting him until he can ride and balance if ever I let him. You don't need to clip in to win! lol let him have fun I think younger kids have to much pressure put on them its just bmx have fun just a thought good luck with whatever you decide on.

I agree, let him learn to ride. Let him love to ride.

Mx Mug
Chris C.
QUOTE (Freewalt @ Jan 23 2009, 01:29 PM) *
The thought of my kid attached to the bike is still a tough one for me to get over, but him losing interest because he can not compete is a tough one also.


I have read this statement a couple times and wasn't going to say anything. At that age, are clips really going to move a racer from non-competitive to competitive? The clips may provide a phsychological advantage. And, they may actually make him a little faster. But, what if clips don't close the gap? If the situation is really such that he is not competitive enough to keep interested, I am just not convinced clips or any one part will make a difference. What other things can you do to help him get better and keep having fun?
japanesestallion
Freewalt
I posted similar thing on my local forum, but it's totally up to you and your son.
You say he is 6N. 6N in ABA or NBL? I have 3 kids on bike and when they were 6, they were on clips. They were 6 inter(aba) 6 Nov(nbl).
I don't think you will have to worry if YOU think he's ready. You go to ABA nationals, you will see many of 6 inters riding on clipless already. You can learn how to ride a bike with and without clips.
IMO, from our experience, the speed they gained was almost a night and day. They almost have to be clipped in to be competitive. We started on the Shimano 424, with cage, so kids can have a small platform. I had them on lightest tension. Now that they are 12, 10, and 8, I have them on Time clip pedals.
I don't think you can go wrong with clips. I did a fun race without clips, and I crashed...breaking 2 bones on my wrist.
You should just try it out. If he doesn't like it, then take them off. You still have plenty of time!
tfd2827
After trying several brands, we have all the kids(7-10-13), on Shimano 424s w/ the plastic cage. They are a great balance of price quality durability use-ability whatever. On the rare occasion that they become unclipped, the cage allows them to keep pedaling until there able to reclip. Usually i don't even know. A great beginner pedal for sure if not excellent all around.
geharrison
My son started wearing clips as a 7I (about 1 year ago). He started with the Shimano 545 (becausee that is what the pros were wearing). I have generally allowed my son to choose his bicycle parts. In this manner he is involved and happy with the bike he rides (I digress).

The great thing about any of the Shimano clipless pedals is the adjustability. The only downside I find with the 545/pedal for the little guys is the weight. These pedals have proved a workhorse, but I have recently replaced them in the name of weight savings.

I just put a pair of Crank Bros Candy on his 20" last night. He practiced getting in and out of them last night and seems to be happy with them, so far. He will hopefully be able to get some track time before the weekend is over to see how the pedals feel in action.

I know a lot of folks that absolutely swear by the Time ATAC especially for the younger riders.

At then end of the day, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the pedals people have thrwn out on this string. Like so many things, choose the one that best fits your son's likes and your buget.
viperpic
If you think you must have clips go with Time or Crank Bros. They both use almost the same system that will give 5 degrees of float so your foot isn't locked straight. Check out a MTB mag. Most of the mailorder places have leftovers cheap. Cooks for less than $40. My son was 7 when he tried my Shimanos and had trouble releasing. Put on times and within 5 minutes he had them mastered. Time even has a tension adjustment on the a couple models. The XS I think. How this helps.
gars
clips made my son faster without a dought.
Freewalt
Would like to thank all of you that have chimed in here to help me with this difficult decision. After serious consideration it looks like we will be getting the TIME ATAC XS Titian Carbons. The big deciding factor was the duel springs that will enable my lil' guy to just push down vs. in and down, and the MASSIVE amount of feed back I have received this weekend (including some of you guys) from parents of little-one's regarding the ease of pushing into these pedals.

Again thank you all for your input it really was appreciated.


JF
Weaver
QUOTE (Freewalt @ Jan 21 2009, 05:21 PM) *
Reluctantly thinking about putting my 6N in clips. Forgetting the "clips versus flats" debate, if you have a little guy in clips, what are they running?

Thanks!



1. he is 6 years old...

2. he is a novice...

not trying to start mayhem, but it's not a good idea IMO...

im ALL FOR CLIPS but think they should be reserved for expert level riders and above. wouldnt mind seeing an age restriction as well... 10x or older etc.


he is a SIX YEAR OLD NOVICE. let the kid ride and have some fun. he'll be better for it in the long run. watching kids in the gate with parents holding their rear wheel at the nationals this weekend, while the kid was clipped in... wow, just doesnt make sense to me.
Bikemonkeys
QUOTE
he is a SIX YEAR OLD NOVICE. let the kid ride and have some fun. he'll be better for it in the long run. watching kids in the gate with parents holding their rear wheel at the nationals this weekend, while the kid was clipped in... wow, just doesnt make sense to me.


There was a 5 year old girl that clipped in and balanced all by herself in Guthrie.

She's been doing that since she got the clips, her parents don't like her and made her learn to balance on her own and race for over 2 years before they got her the clips. biggrin.gif Guess which part of that is a lie.
nowheels
QUOTE (Weaver @ Jan 26 2009, 09:49 AM) *
he is a SIX YEAR OLD NOVICE. let the kid ride and have some fun. he'll be better for it in the long run. watching kids in the gate with parents holding their rear wheel at the nationals this weekend, while the kid was clipped in... wow, just doesnt make sense to me.




....five and under riders can be held at the gate by the parent...or other...clipped in or not...its an ABA rule.



...my only thing is make sure the rider can do everything on flats as well as clips. Manual, jump, gates etc etc.... So, should they come unclipped in a race...they can keep trucking along and not stumble trying to get clipped back in. This is also where a set of Shimano caged clip pedals come in handy. Just my thoughts....which have been known to be totally wrong! biggrin.gif



"2T's"
Bikemonkeys
QUOTE (nowheels @ Jan 26 2009, 08:01 AM) *
Just my thoughts....which have been known to be totally wrong! biggrin.gif

"2T's"


But Your son did just win both days in Guthrie in 10x. So, I'm thinking you might be on to something.
Weaver
QUOTE (nowheels @ Jan 26 2009, 08:01 AM) *
....five and under riders can be held at the gate by the parent...or other...clipped in or not...its an ABA rule.


the point was to note that many of these kids are getting attached to their bikes before they can even balance on their own. i know the rule.

i run clips... hell, i ride a mtbike... i just think that some things could and should be saved for older expert riders...
nowheels
QUOTE (Weaver @ Jan 26 2009, 10:45 AM) *
the point was to note that many of these kids are getting attached to their bikes before they can even balance on their own. i know the rule.





....I totally agree. That is why I said they should be able to do everything else...unclipped.....






Back to the original thread! Run the shimano's with tha cages!
bmxgirlmom
This topic is a big pet peeve of mine, sorry guys.

Kids under 12 and less than expert should never be put on clips.

It tears my heart out to see the little ones laying on the track crying out in pain because they've fallen and are all twisted up with the bike cause they couldn't unclip.

Also bothers me to see parents having to "catch" the little ones at the finish line cause they can't unclip to put their foot down and get off the bike on their own.



Bikemonkeys
As a parent of two kids that clipped in at or just before 5, I agree with Scott.

Billy Ross
I have a t-shirt that says;
Worlds Greatest DAD
Fastest T.O. in Texas
Bill Hayden
What Janeen, BMXgirlmom said plus one.
Bikemonkeys
QUOTE
It tears my heart out to see the little ones laying on the track crying out in pain because they've fallen and are all twisted up with the bike cause they couldn't unclip.

Also bothers me to see parents having to "catch" the little ones at the finish line cause they can't unclip to put their foot down and get off the bike on their own.


I laugh at these scenes while pointing at the parents. How a parent can do that to their kid is ridicules. It's funny to me how many people can ask me the same question, get the same answer from me, and do something completely opposite.

I used to get asked once or twice a month if their kid was ready, I'd watch their kid fall over in the gate unable to balance. I'd tell them no, they'd show up not track night with them anyway.

I'd get asked how tight to crank them down. I'd point out that my pedals were only about 2 turns in from all the way out, my kids just tight enough for the spring not to rattle. They'd crank those puppies down and ask how to make them tighter.
Freewalt
QUOTE (bmxgirlmom @ Jan 26 2009, 09:08 AM) *
This topic is a big pet peeve of mine, sorry guys.

Kids under 12 and less than expert should never be put on clips.

It tears my heart out to see the little ones laying on the track crying out in pain because they've fallen and are all twisted up with the bike cause they couldn't unclip.

Also bothers me to see parents having to "catch" the little ones at the finish line cause they can't unclip to put their foot down and get off the bike on their own.



I ssssooo agree with your statement. But understand this is now getting like bodybuilding... If you wanna compete (really compete) you need to take steroids. Because ALL the competitors do. If no one was able to use clipless-- the same winners would be the same winners. It is not an advantage when everyone is on them. Only when you are not. Messed up analogy, but I think you get my point.

ALL the kids in my sonís class are using them. He is now at a disadvantage. I told myself we would never be doing thisófor all the reasonís you all have put in this post. But now we are the bodybuilder that is not using. I see the kids that understand how to use them in his 6N class. Not all of the kids, but we now have ran into a handful of them.

This sucks. They need to ban these damn things and again get everyone back on the equal playing field, not to mention the safer one.


jf
Weaver
QUOTE (Freewalt @ Jan 26 2009, 12:16 PM) *
This sucks. They need to ban these damn things and again get everyone back on the equal playing field, not to mention the safer one.


ive had more accidents because of slipped pedals than i can remember... clips were/are progression.

but...

novices and intermediates running them? no... earn them...

im also one that says nationals should be age group only... would stop the sandbagging... and id stop seeing 7 yr old novices with carbon everything, clipped in and slingshotting... rolleyes.gif

soto used to ride sheep hills clipped in... i never saw him on flats anywhere... same with donny... but those guys definitely earned wearing them...


Bikemonkeys
QUOTE
not to mention the safer one.
Safer how? I still have scares from flat/caged pedals. Neither of my kids have ever had a slipped pedal come around and get them. Never have they slipped a pedal and jammed their foot into the ground. And never have they slipped a pedal and taken a hard seat on the top tube.

QUOTE
im also one that says nationals should be age group only... would stop the sandbagging... and id stop seeing 7 yr old novices with carbon everything, clipped in and slingshotting... rolleyes.gif
And the older kids too.
Weaver
QUOTE (Bikemonkeys @ Jan 26 2009, 12:23 PM) *
And the older kids too.


agreed... age groups only all the way up.

i seriously dont understand the sandbagging thing...
mxmug
QUOTE (gars @ Jan 24 2009, 04:22 PM) *
clips made my son faster without a dought.

The same could be said for steroids. I am sorry for the harsh response but if it were really all about speed, I probably would not still have a love afair with bmx 30 years after i first became involved. Let them learn to ride first. Let them learn to love bmx first. Then the competitive fire will come from inside of them and not from inside the parents.

Mx Mug
Bikemonkeys
Me either. It is so funny to see, only to watch the kids get beat in the nov/inter class anyway.
Bikemonkeys
QUOTE (mxmug @ Jan 26 2009, 12:34 PM) *
The same could be said for steroids. I am sorry for the harsh response but if it were really all about speed, I probably would not still have a love afair with bmx 30 years after i first became involved. Let them learn to ride first. Let them learn to love bmx first. Then the competitive fire will come from inside of them and not from inside the parents.

Mx Mug


But how long is long enough? 2 years experiance? Most new riders don't make it that long.

Maybe not allowing novice and inters or whatever the NBL class wise use clips untill they are Expert would help retain those riders.
Weaver
QUOTE (Bikemonkeys @ Jan 26 2009, 12:38 PM) *
Maybe not allowing novice and inters or whatever the NBL class wise use clips untill they are Expert would help retain those riders.



+1

make the novice and inter classes about fun and learning and getting better... not holding off for wins at a national...
Bikemonkeys
QUOTE (Weaver @ Jan 26 2009, 12:40 PM) *
+1

make the novice and inter classes about fun and learning and getting better... not holding off for wins at a national...


Or state.
MikeCarruth
Elvis- please bring reactor 4 to 110% - we're gonna need full power to the turbines.

(Sent from mile marker 150 on I-44 East)

-M
mxmug
QUOTE (Bikemonkeys @ Jan 26 2009, 01:38 PM) *
But how long is long enough? 2 years experiance? Most new riders don't make it that long.

Maybe not allowing novice and inters or whatever the NBL class wise use clips untill they are Expert would help retain those riders.

Expert is where the rubber meets the road. After a bmxer learns to ride in inter at some point having the required skills to be competitive they gain there confidence. At that point some begin to tear off a streak of wins on there way to expert. After earning there expert status most will have there confidence broken again. The question is when they become an expert will they stick with it long enough to regain there confidence. If there incouraged and they enjoy bmx they might. If they dont make the main and dad tells them there a disgrace to the family, maybe not.

Mx Mug
Bikemonkeys
QUOTE (mxmug @ Jan 26 2009, 01:04 PM) *
Expert is where the rubber meets the road. After a bmxer learns to ride in inter at some point having the required skills to be competitive they gain their confidence.... If they're incouraged and they enjoy bmx they might. If they dont make the main and dad tells them there a disgrace to the family, maybe not.

Mx Mug


That should be a T-shirt.

Weaver
QUOTE (mxmug @ Jan 26 2009, 01:04 PM) *
Expert is where the rubber meets the road. After a bmxer learns to ride in inter at some point having the required skills to be competitive they gain there confidence. At that point some begin to tear off a streak of wins on there way to expert. After earning there expert status most will have there confidence broken again. The question is when they become an expert will they stick with it long enough to regain there confidence. If there incouraged and they enjoy bmx they might. If they dont make the main and dad tells them there a disgrace to the family, maybe not.

Mx Mug


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