Hello,

I have a '79 Goose w/ the old seat post stuck (cold welded) to the frame. I have spent hours trying to remove the old post w/ a hammer & chisel and was lucky to gain an inch- while I'm beginning to deform the circular insert.. I had a machinest/welder look @ it who suggested I flip the center bar and re-weld for 200$. (He said the post went down over halfway through the frame). I don't want to do that.
Has anyone ever seen a seat post that is normal at the top and the tapers to a smaller bar about half way down to fit between the jammed post, or any other ideas ?

Thank you all,

Peace,

Traveller79

*Note to mods: scoot to the Tech section, eh?*

Is the post aluminum or steel? How much is sticking out, or is it below the top of the seat tube?

I recently had to extract one from a Robinson frame i got for 5 bucks. Alloy post with a steel insert (?) and while I got the steel insert out, the outer aluminum part was NOT coming out.

I bought a drill bit to match the I.D. of the seat tube. Had our machinist weld an extension on the shank to reach down in. (It went ALL THE WAY TO THE BB!) I had it drilled out in less than two minutes.

Steel or CR-MO post, that would take longer I'm sure.

I've never seen a tapered ID on a seatpost but I just had to use TC's "slice with a sawzall blade" technique to sliver stuck cromo seatposts in 2 gooses. had to make 180 degree cuts, then a 3rd cut the width of a screwdriver so i could take the sliver out.
went through 20 bucks worth of blades and took forever. (like cutting a padlock with a butter knife)

AZ.

I believe it is aluminum. I just worked on it and chiselled the post away from the chro-mo frame.

The post is entirely inside, no outer metal. The top is all at a peak now so I'm gonna try to drill w/ '1/2 bit first, and try to get wider.

The welders and machinests around here (Denver ) want an hours pay to touch the frame- ave = $80. Even if it takes a minute, but I'm still calling around.

Do you remember if they used a MIG weld or TIG weld on your frame?

Thanx for your response,

Traveller79

BridgeCity,

That is a good idea. How deep did you cut the slivers, and how deep do you think a seat post needs to go in?

Thanx,

Traveller79

I can bore it out check out theframedoc.com

seracingman might be your best bet if sawzall blades are too thick to enter inside the post.

i had to cut all the way through, which involves lots of blowing the shavings away and a bright flashlight to look down in the hole and check depth. after all the cutting you can feel the blade friction as you get to the end of the cut or even the angle of the blade. the frame doesn't get cut as you'd imagine it would if you take your time.

the biggest downfall was the 12inch sawzall blades which were 25 bucks for 5 and i had to use 4 of em.
i'd save my money and employ seracingman next time.

Yup, skip the hype and have it drilled out...

one last tidbit,
most of us don't have a tall enough drill press at home to drill a frame ourselves.
alloy drills out easy with a hand drill if you are VERY careful about alignment and having successively larger drill bits.
cromo is dang near impossible to drill by hand, unless you have a monster hand drill and forearms of a gorilla.

hell it's eazy to remove a seat post from frame ??

Put it in a big table vise.

Spot on Bridgecity... It's a fairly tricky procedure to try at home unless you have serious gear and skills. Any decent machine shop should be able to do it right without any damage to the frame. I've had them done a couple times on my old Mongoose frames for under 20 bucks with perfect results.

IMO that's bad advice (in this case) Badchevy... That method might be OK if the post hasn't been in the frame too long. I think this particular post and frame have become one. Twisting any post or frame in a vice is not recommended for seat posts that are molecularly fused with the seat post tube. That's often what happens after 20 + years... Twisting at this stage can result in shearing or splitting of the frame's seat post tube.

these weren't coming loose no way no how.
the guy before me got frustrated and ripped the seat clamp area, even welded a tab on one of the posts, which is leaving me with some damage to reweld.

TC, what would be the friction factor involved in a well rusted seat post. it must be huge amount of torque involved to overcome that much surface area?

shooot !! what eve .....i don't have no problem getting a dang post out of a frame at all ...that is why you use a big a** table vise ....it's works real great ..

mmuBest of luck ??

apparently you are an exception to the rule....
you have a big vice AND you know how to use it.

It's been said before, but I'll skim through a few things.

Kano Kroil is far and away the best penetrating oil I've ever used. It can penetrate to less than 50 millionths of an inch. (.00005'). The stores won't have it, you need to buy it from a dealer, or direct from the Mfg.

It also has a way of eating away at rust, and not letting it re-form. Some oils will just break the rust loose and re-distribute it. This stuff dissolves it. Not like an OA bath will, but the objective is to get it to move, not remove the rust yet anyway, but some dissolving is better than no dissolving here.

They call it the oil that creeps, and that it does. So you have to let it soak. The deeper it gets, the less friction you have.

The rust is kind of like stalactites and stalagmites, eventually they come together and become one in some areas. Surrounding them, and soaking them in Kroil helps a LOT to soften them up.

There are a lot of variables. Some seat posts, were made of nothing more than cheap seamed tubing, and dirt materials. They are very soft, and it tears, and swells, and bends very easily, and can be virtually impossible to get those out.

Others, are made from quality tubing, like 4130 cro-mo, and were chrome plated and such. With these you have a much better shot at getting then out, and are worth spending more time trying to get them out before cutting. Kroil will usually do the trick on these types.

Aluminum alloys are an odd duck too. But Kroil will soak right into the aluminum oxides too, and at the very least provide deep down lubrication.

What type of material the frame is made of matters a lot too. It's all a big variable, not a one size fits all solution with seat posts.

So always start by soaking it with the best penetrating oil you can find. Hoppe's makes a good one, and some others. Soak them inside and out, upside down, and upside right.

Once they are soaked for hours and/or days you can start working it one step at a time.

The reality is, that you can put more force into the seat post by pushing it in, than you can pulling it out. Even with a good slide hammer, or porta-power pulling on it. This is because you can set it on the floor (hard rubber mat), and hit it with a huge hammer, and the force all transfers to the post, and it's backed up solid. In fact, you have to be careful not to dent the BB, because you can deliver that much force hitting it.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, ...hear me now, or hear me later, lol ... The magic of a good penetrating oil is two-fold (or more). First, it can get into REALLY small places. Second, it will displace water. What this means is, that when you start hitting, pulling, and everything else, the droplets of penetrating oil start flying around. When this stuff gets into your eyes, it has the ability to displace the water on your eye ball. It also can penetrate into pores as small as .00005". Which means the porosity of your eye ball is like the craters on the moon to the stuff. So it lifts the water and gets rid of it, and proceeds to soak into your eyeball, and as you try to wash it away with tears, the oil just displaces the tears. Because your nerves in your eye will be quickly and deeply inundated with the stuff, I can say without a doubt, KANO Kroil is the most painful stuff I've ever gotten into my eyes (one time I had Skydrol mixed with it too, and that was worse... lol...) .

It hurts so bad that you won't care about washing it out, all you will care about is screaming, "Kill me, it hurts", and pounding your head into a wall to knock yourself out, to stop the pain. Your neighbors usually can be found pointing and laughing at that point. ....lol ...... Especially if you have mixed it with 10 other kinds of oils in a shot gun fashion. (OK I am exaggerating a little, but hear me now, or hear me later, the stuff really, really, hurts like no other in your eyeballs, so avoid that! 'nuff said.

The trick is, once it "breaks" free, you have it made. So it is always best to use counter intuitive thinking here. Try and drive the post IN first. If its in 7 inches, and you knock it down to 7 1/4, that's not going to make it worse, rather, you have broken it free of it's bonds, and now you can start going back out with it.

The catch is, if its a crummy material, and soft, it will just mushroom, and bend, and it just doesn't work well. On the bright side, that means the material will be easier to cut, or drill.

A cheap air hammer can do wonders. Usually called a "muffler cutter", et al.. Probably $29 dollars at Fleet Farm, etc...They are good because they hit hard, and repetitively. But you need to find a bit that works here too, a splitter won't work, so finding the right "tool" for the air hammer, will take some thought. A pneumatic rivet gun is the same thing, only much more controllable, and much more expensive.

So, the hammer becomes the usual choice. Bigger is usually better. and you can figure that part out. If it doesn't move with the hammer trying to drive it in, you have little chance at pulling it out. If it does move, (mark it before hitting on it, so you know if it moved), then you can proceed to a slide hammer and you are only hours, or days, away from successful extraction, lol.

If you need to go to the next level, then the sawz-all, or the drilling becomes the next avenue. Remember, if you mash it up all the way down into the seat tube, it usually can't be drilled effectively. So make the call, and cut it off cleanly to be drilled, or follow my lead on the sawz-all technique. I'm not going through this one again, but I will link it here. It was in the Schwinn Sting restoration challenge" thread.....

http://www.vintagebmx.com/community/index....wtopic=27010138

A piloted reamer, or a piloted core drill is best. If you can obtain, or have on hand, either of these, in the right sizes, then you are already probably like me, and have a machine shop of your own, and already knew all of this stuff. If you really want the right stuff though, start with machining catalogs, and aviation oriented places. Those are your search words.

A regular twist drill bit, is a tricky thing to use here, but it can be done. But even on a mill or a lathe, it's tricky. Be careful. ...Or farm the job out.

As for twisting it. If it won't go in by pounding on it, and is still seized, twisting is a bad thing. The post may not be what comes un-seized first when using torsion to try and break it free.

If you got it to move, then it is not seized, ....then....go for it, twist away.

There is always the one who likes to tie the frame to the car bumper, and use a lag bolt in the foundation of the house.... ....whatever, it's not my frame...

The timer on the edits can drive you crazy now, lol. I was trying to add something.....

However, ....adding heat with a torch can help too, but can and will damage chrome, and paint. But, if you add a LOT of heat with a torch, then twisting becomes a viable option. It's HOT. So hitting can bend it because now it's softer due to the heat, and twisting is a smooth motion, so when it's really hot, the softer metal sometimes responds better to smooth motion. .... But cold twisting, is usually futile and risky. Again not a one size fits all.

Fit that near the end where you think it belongs above...lol

Excellent post about posts!

My post removal tool:

Here's one more variation i used this summer on a frame that wasn't delicate and a seatpost that was still intact.
soaked the whole frame in OA, then immediately used Kroil on the post. (bought it on a TC recomm. with no regrets)
then clamped a walgoose neck on the post and started "shocking" the post by hitting the quill with a hammer.
the SOB popped loose after about 25 hits.

PS-My pop's has a big vice but the problem is trying to get good clamping action without squashing the post. a gooseneck seems to solve the clamping issue.

HELLO i was had the same problem, chrome goose with a alu post stuck and i mean STUCK solid......tried everthing wrenches wouldnt budge so................took it to work clamped the fram on a radial arm drill and looked for a drill bit just under a inch in dia, started to drill , used the lube/water on the radial arm drill as coolant, but the frame got warm and i had a small ripple in the satpoat part off the frame, so lesson learnt USE PLEANTY OF COOLANT...............BADCHEVY WHY DONT YOU STICK YOUR HEAD IN A VICE AND TURN THE HANDLE TILL YOUR HEAD HURTS?

Thank you for all of the advice. Bridge City those post pictures are a trip- I hope my post does not go that deep. And Agentheinz, what circumference is that bit, + what drill ? As a kid i remember hacking the top of the post off and trying to jam a ribbed seat post in -did'nt work (a 13 year old's mechanics @ work, haha). Right now Ive gotten about 2 inches deep into the frame and keep drilling away w/ dif. sizes of bits. Slowly but surely. Do you guys know if there is a bar that meets in the middle of the tube or if it is completely hollow down to the cranks. I am, also rotating coke, WD, Goof Off, etc,soaking in the tube, to possibly have an effect on the bond.

Here are some more rookie questions.- I rode pretty hard and the chromo frame has some , not bad dinks, but say Imperfections,indentations. My question - Is powdercoating (white), very forgiving as far as minor imperfections, tiny dinks, etc?
Second question. I don't want to restore the Mongoose back to the stock 1 pc. cranks, Ashtabula stem, black narrow handle bars, Motomag wheels (even though they are sweet) etc. Real questions - I have anodized Shimano 600 cranks- are they junk?. I have Diamondback chromo handlebars w/ an early 80's Dback threaded gooseneck, and Araya 206175 (Japan) rims, original gumwall Redline tires (primo tread)- I do have Decoster forks, so in other words nothing matches. What do you think? Would you guys search and buy a Mongoose gooseneck/stem, OSN tires, mongoose everything ( or say Redline V bars or Cook Brothers stem)? - Non Diamondback.
Also the guy at the bike shop said to have the rims respoked, do spokes weaken so that they are dangerous over 25 years? They were barely used, bought after I quit jumping. Also I was going to respoke white w/ red nipples. Red , white, blue and chromo scheme. Would you stay all chrome w/ original red outer rim?

Thank you for your input everyone,

Peace,

Traveller

Nice to see you progressing on the post issue.

if the spokes haven't been bent in half over and over (which they haven't) or they aren't rusted half through, or have trashed nipples, then you'll be just fine.

on the subject of era correct. these frames are still plentiful. there are some perfection builds out there that'll blow you away in the detail and exactness. works of art done by some of the folks around here. you'll likely not be competing with what they've accomplished, nor be asked to sell your bike to a museum.

so have fun with it. if you want to use whatever parts you already own or can find at the bike shop and you are comfortable with the outcome, more power to you. any old school era parts like shimano cranks are going to be more than great for your bike. and newer handlebars still fit old necks, and offer more strength at less cost.

here is my nephews bike that he rides to death in the summer. OMG is that a midschool elf fork? yah, but it was my own personal fork and he thinks it's cool.

the industrial white powder was put on a bit thicker and it is very good at hiding imperfections and dings. a candy translucent powder requires pretty good polish and cleanup or you'll see imperfections in the sunlight.

cheers!

nephews, with 1979 troxel mags and new red tires (cause he loves to make skidmarks)


my daughter's bike with new bars, pedals, grips, tires and some odd overseas hubs that i thought were attractive.


and my own rider with new tires, grips, bars, and a mountain bike seat because those old plastic ones become unfriendly after an hour or so of riding.


i can't represent any of the perfection builds but you can see Randy's blue calendar goose somewhere around here, or Rob's candy blue goose that got sold to Juan and is posted at the bmxaddicts website. or the goose that is still raced in Hawaii.

TC,

Thanx for all of the info and advice.

Traveller

Traveller, it's definitely time to post some pics of your build with the new seat post installed! It's getting to the point where I'm gonna hop on a plane and remove the damn thing myself if it doesn't get done soon! LOL!

Bridgecity, I guess you really are a Mongoose fan... Nice to see the "young guys" diggin' the old Geese... Any 74's in your collection? LOL! OK, maybe a 75? Have you seen any in real life? Then again, when I was rolling around the old hood on my first Gen. Mongoose in early 76, you were what, like 8 years old? LOL!

Some nice bikes you got there, son. Thanks for sharing them on Traveller's seat post thread...

Yes, curious for an update on the seat post project.

I didn't see a goose until i was ten, about 78, when a candy red one showed up in our neighborhood.
it blew away the schwinn and huffy MX variations and the Raleigh's we were riding.
nowadays they are a good economical project bike: plentiful, reasonable priced, stylish, strong, and functional for adult size riding.

Mongoosedrummer,
Thanx for the interest ! What's up all- BridgeC.?

I'm about 90% dug in. Still slowly chiseling and drilling with caution. At this point I know I can complete it. I haven't found a machine shop w/ any real interest or suggestion. They look at me like I'm crazy. (does any one have any Machine shop ties around Denver)? It takes me an hour to explain the situation, it seems. Wish me luck finding a TIG weld. I'm taking before and after pictures - will post when i'm done. It's been snowing here so I've been alternating coke, WD, etc. soaks. Cold to work outside sometimes (wa wa , cry cry LOL).
Still working.

PEACE All,

Just a word of caution: TIG welding requires a lot of serious heat and can sometimes be damaging for small repairs to a frame. MIG welding is better for that smaller repair stuff.

You don't want any welding disasters... After all that seat post drama! LOL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM60o_EutrY

I am abut 3 1/2 inches deep - but the mudda keeps going down the tube. I am about to find a steel bar and pound the seat post dowward, which might pop loose- or stick harder if the post goes all the way down to the bottom of the frame.
I can't find the reply, but someone mentioned an oil or lubricant that has a minute molecular structure and would seperate the post from the frame. And really gave fair warnining about eye protection. Said the liquid would absorrb into your eyeball like a crater in the Moon.
Sorry I am overlooking this reply, but if anyone knows what I am talking about, can you tell me again what is is. I believe it has to be ordered commercially.

Thanks All,

PEACE, Traveller79

kroil. good stuff. you may be heading toward slicing that seatpost if a blade will fit down the hole.

BC,
There is already a slice out of the back about an 1/8 on an inch. The stuck post is now an inch below the top bar where it splits to the angle bars that lead down to the dropouts. I'm ready for a breakthrough- Keep trying. Where can I find Kroil ?

PEACE,

Traveller

kroil is ordered online, as you thought. google will find it.

do you have access to a digital camera? i think it would be beneficial if we could see what you are battling to help your game plan.

Thanx BC,

I Have pictures. What section of the site, -or where do you download a picture? A bit computer illiterate here.

Than you bro,

Traveller

Here are your pics. you'll have to explain because it looks like different stages of progress?
regardless of the seatpost, it looks like you need some professional assistance with the tubing.

BC,

Yes, these are the stages over the past 2 weeks. I am about 3 to 4 inches deep w/ the seatpost. It just keeps going further down. I just want to get it out and then pay to have it welded. The top of the post (holder) looks worse in the picture. I believe I can pull it back in with a hose clamp, vice, etc. & w/ all the dinks- new and old I might powder coat it white.
I am looking at Kroil online and have had no luck w/ machine shops around here as far as metal removal.

Thanx for the help,

Traveller

maybe i'm not fully understanding. are you saying that the seat post is SLIPPING further down the hole as you try to work with it? (as if it's loose but you just can't get a hold of it to pull it out)

BC,
No it is cold welded. I pry w/ chisel,screwdriver & hammer to "peel" the metals apart, and then drill out the inner part of the seat post. It (Seat post) must go all the way down to the bottom of the frame. It is not slipping but solid drilling and removal w/ drill bits and tools-which takes forever. It is now over 3 inches deep and there is no way to grasp and pull the post. I've already broken 2 pair of good needlenose & more tools. I really need a metal shop w/ a metal grade drill bit that fits the circumference of the inner tubing of the frame to bore the post out, but cannot find one. I was hoping the Kroil would help w/ metal seperation, and then manual remove metal- peice by peice. Sorry it is confusing. Thanx.

PEACE,

Traveller Dave

if a long sawzall blade will fit down the center of that seatpost, i'd be for slicing it up and peeling out the strips.


the seatpost might go all the way to the bottom, but i'll put better than 50% on it not.
did you shine a bright flashlight down the hole to see where the post does end?
put an angle in a clothes hanger and feed it down to "feel" where the post stops.

Howdy,

Yes I used a light, and a dental type tool to feel where the bar ends. -could not detect. You are right, its about 50/50 % chance. Had a BMX bike shop look at it and the post is steel, not aluminum. I am still gaining ground tiny piece by tiny piece w/ drill. I have time. I have some old leads (friends)in the metal bus., still looking for their phone #'s. Is the Swasall round which fits on a drill. I have some old ones. I will look at their sizes.

PEACE

Thank you BC,

Traveller

a sawzall is actually a reciprocating saw. the blade sticks out the end and saws up and down. kind of like an electric meat slicer, i suppose. everyone should own one, it's a miracle tool for construction or whatever. probably cutting up deer, as well.

they sell 12 inch blades that are nice and thin (narrow blade, i mean) for cutting metal.
if that is just steel and not cromoly, then you'll have it sliced out of there in no time at all.

Here's a little motivation for your project.
Just got my seatpost dilemma properly fixed and back from the powder shop.

Looks real good Bridge. Good for you. I am getting closer.

By the way, are you going to weld the slice? Or reinforce it in a special way- my fault line is wider, but hoping it will come together closely.

Peace,

Traveller, Dave

I should have taken a good pic but that slice was a mess.
i added a lot of filler weld then dremmeled and hand sanded inside and out.
the final slice was cleaned up by using the large diameter dremmel wheel, then used a file to recreate the wedge shape at the bottom which looks to me like they used a chisel in the factory.

not a fast procedure may have been 4 to 6 hrs of detail work, but i find it relaxing to get lost in the moment of this type of work.

glad to hear you are making progress finally! woo hoo!