OK, the challenge was laid, and I accepted. The gauntlet is down. We'll call it the Bridge City challenge!

Can this Schwinn Sting be repaired without extraordinary methods? Can the system actually be beat?

I think it can. So I have volunteered my mad sciences to give it a go.

Here is what showed up on my doorstep.

Some rust, some worse, some not so bad, nothing a little OA bath and some polishing can't cure methinks.

BB rear



Not too bad here either.
BB front



Hmmm, this one has been ridden hard. Typical Schwinn Sting brazing cracks. The truth was BITD, if you were going to jump it hard, you should have bought an SX-2000/Sting Comp, which had thicker tubing, and didn't ever crack anywhere, ever. Stings were racing frames. Very typical crack location on a Sting that was jumped hard here.

Rode hard cracked brazing, left side head tube.



Of course, they also cracked around the seat tubes, ....right about........Here. (Cringe)

Left side welds.



And.....here. (Double cringe)

Right side welds.



And also ....by the holes here.....hey, this one isn't cracked here. If it would have been ridden just a little bit harder, it would have been cracked right about....here.




Well, if it was welded with the seat tube in place, I'm hosed, but let's be optimistic, and start by soaking it for a few days with some Kano Kroil, inside, and out.

Kroil.




......Any guesses, bets, or otherwise?

More to come, however, do you see what it is laying on? Yep, blueprints for a 50cc Ultimate 10-300 biplane. I have not built a plane in a while, and I need a fresh one for this spring, so I must be crazy to let this land "on top" of my blueprints! Well, it's not getting priority status, it's actually getting sort of "co-priority, in between steps" status....

Great idea for a thread mate. If anyone can save that baby - it's you. Really looking forward to your progress.

Funny - You could probably count on one hand the number of Stings that ever made it downunder on one hand - and I never ever saw or heard of one here till recently. But thanks to the ads and articles in mighty BMXA BITD, they are definitely a bike I admired from afar. Matter of fact, I've got the rundown on Donny Atherton's Sting in the 12/80 BMXA in front of me right now...

ha! I just ran across this thread. Wowzers! It looks even worse in the pics. I'm feelin pretty low for even getting you into this.

The owner is a member here and now owns his own bike shop so this will hopefully go on display in the window someday. I loaned him mine for display quite awhile and it got a lot of curious comments.

Are you sure you aren't the Mr. Wizard guy from the early Nickelodeon days.

Yes, I am the "proud" owner of the project Sting.

Let this be a lesson to everyone: never let one of your friends "borrow" your bike for an extended period of time (who's dad was a construction welder), even if you're sponsored by the local shop at the time and have no current use for your "old" bike, and said friend "needs a bike to ride for a while". At least, not if said bike is a revolutionary/milestone type of bike that you plan to keep.

What can I say? We were teens. I always try to help a brother in need. I wasn't going to be riding it. We kind of hit a "not talking stage" in our friendship for a while (one of those deals where you know you're still friends, but needed some time to cool off from a stupid incident - maybe it was a girl, who knows), so the bike was kind of out of my sight for a while when he had it. Whatever the problem was, we've remained now for about 25 years, so it didn't bother me that he still had my bike during that time.

And yet..., I still wasn't quite prepared for when the bike got returned to me and seeing the "repair" job my friend's dad did to the frame due to the cracks that developed in it from him having the seat post raised wayyy beyond the max height. It was one of those deals that you wanted to scream/cry, but realized he was sorry about what had happened and tried to at least do something to repair the damage that had been done.

So, I've kept it all these years thinking one day I'd let my kid ride it (at my age, I guess I need to get busy having one), even in it's "ugly" condition. My friend, Mark (another 25+ year friend), convinced me to let you see what kind of magic you could do on it. As he said (and others seem to be saying, as well), if anyone can fix it it'd be you.

I am humbled by your willingness to help in this situation.

OK. there are a few different ways to machine up pullers, and clamps for a slide hammer, but as always, I want to do it so that Joe VBMXer can do the same.

So, I cut a slit in a piece of scrap tubing as a shim, and installed an old seat clamp on the post over the shim. Since the post is in decent shape, and there is ONLY 3 1/2 inches of post inserted into the frame, I want to save it, IF possible.

So I clamped it tight, put it in a vice, heated it with a propane torch, (why not, it has already been welded on here, so I can get away with it in this case) and started to twist, and twist, and twist. I also tried a few good smacks with a 7 pound brass hammer, and it was clear, that the seat post was NOT coming out peacefully.

So, shown is the original set up, along with a cleanly cut off post, leaving room for decisions.

At this point you NEED to decide whether you are going to drill it on a mill, or cut it out. Once you start cutting, and damaging the post, drilling will be impossible, so make the call here.

Post cut off.



Then carefully cut a slit as far down into the seat tube slit, being careful NOT to cut any of the frame tubing. This relieves a LOT of tension, and gives up some of the fight in it. Clamp on a slide hammer, and put the frame on some rubber matting, and give it hell with the slide hammer.

Slide hammer, first try.



And let me tell you, that relief slit did NOT take out all the fight in it! There is ONLY 3 1/2 inches of insertion depth! Damn, it must have been welded with the tube installed.

So, now it's time to get out the Sawz-All and set it to NO Orbit, and put on a sharp bi-metallic blade, and CAREFULLY cut 4 slices into the seat post tube, while checking with a bright flash light FREQUENTLY to check progress.

You DON'T want to cut through the seat post, only MOST of the way through it!

When you have 4 slots cut, start folding one in.

4 cuts.



Now, Install a RAZOR sharp chisel into the fold that was already cut down the slit, and carefully follow the slit down into the tube, using firm, but gentle taps with the hammer. Be very careful NOT to damage the seat tube. All of the chisel should be in the post area, and not actually contacting the seat tube, this doesn't mean you can't dent the tubing if you are not careful.

Drive it down through until you have one free slit, all the way down.

I should note here that the blade of the chisel (which you cant see) is aligned across, from 2:00 O'clock position to the 8:00 O'clock position (points of the hex), almost horizontal, left to right across the page, lifting the inside layer up, and resting on the inside of the right side of the seat post. You are not cutting with the slit, but across it, lifting that folded layer as it goes.

Razor sharp chisel.



You may need the slide hammer to remove the chisel.

This is what it looks like after the first cut. This should remove most of the fight in the seat post. Install the slide hammer, and give it hell.

After chisel removed.



Apparently, this thing still has some fight left in it! D'oh!

So, let's take down the opposite side the same way.

NOW, there CAN"T be much fight left in this thing! One side at a time.

After second chisel.



You have GOT to be kidding me. Holy hand grenades Batman, this thing STILL won't come out! FINALLY, one side gone!

One fold gone



There CAN NOT BE ANY FIGHT LEFT IN THIS THING!!!!!!!!

Wanna bet!? Un-freaking-believable. This piece did NOT want to come out! It was definitely welded with the post in place.

But alas, the post is GONE, and there is no damage from sawz-all blades, or any other tooling damage! BUT, it is quite apparent now, where all the fight came from.

Post gone, no damage.



Hmmmmm. This would explain it!

But, as you see, it's not cut all the way through, and the SHARP chisel cut cleanly, and nicely, all the way down.

Pieces, outside view.



Whew! Now THAT is a seat post removal story!

Sorry bro, your seat post didn't survive, lol. Well, actually, some of it did, lol. At least nobody on the planet can say, "I could have gotten it out without wrecking it" !!!! That baby was as stuck as they get! Welded in even!

Now it sits in the upstairs bath tub. It is taking an OA bath. No need to re-write an Oxalic Acid thread. See the OA thread for this part of the presentation.

Until the next step...

T

Are the DMB decals near and dear, or are they coming off? Also, can I take the fork decals off?

Thought I'd ask before I clean them off.

Ted,

You're correct. The frame was welded with the seat tube in it. That was one of those "He did what?!" (accompanied with a jaw-opened blank stare) kind of things when the bike got returned to me. Like I said, I could tell he felt bad about cracking the seat tube (he had been riding the bike with the seat tube jacked wayyy up, and so when his dad welded it for him he said, "OK, put the seat post where you want it, and that's where it's going to be."), and he felt like he was doing me right by having his dad fix it. All good intentions, of course, but not exactly giving consideration to the actual bike. He (my friend) wasn't really into BMX, so it was merely a loaner bike from his buddy (me), and of course his dad had no clue either. Did I mention they had good intentions? His dad was a nice guy, too (rest his soul), but his line of welding work was more practical than aesthetic.

I'm pretty sure "Bridge City" and I had discussed how the frame had been welded with the post in it, but I guess that tiny morsel of info may not have been relayed to you. My apologies if that information would have sped the process for you. To me, it's just amazing that you were able to get it out without completely undoing the weld. Having never heard anything about you until recently, I am already a "believer".

You know, the DMB (Des Moines Bikes) decals have a little bit of a story behind them, and I doubt they can be replaced (unless they get reproduced somehow). If they don't "have to" come off, then that'd be my preference, I guess.

I'm assuming there are repros, or something, of the fork decals that can be gotten?

After the OA bath, it is clear what I am dealing with now. I can see where the cracks are inside the post tube. It is worse than I wanted to see. It is actually broken all the way around the tube at 2 levels circumferentially.

I was hoping for smaller, linear cracks that would withstand having the brazing ground off. In this case, if I take off all the welding, there will be virtually no strength left at all. I am also worried about deformation at this point. This frame was broken pretty badly.

inside clean tube. 2 breaks, all the way around. Clearly the seat post was welded at 2 levels from brazing coming through the cracks. No wonder it would not come out!!! lol.




I used a 90 degree high speed with a sanding disc, and a Dremel with various bits. This is messy, and the shrapnel that comes off using spur bits like this are VERY sharp, so get in, get out, and get into the shower before you have a million metal slivers. Eye protection is paramount with these sharp shards too.

It's kind of like carving a bar of soap. But, if you go too deep or nick the good parts next to it, you will be going backwards.

I am being very careful not to remove too much. Layer by later, bit by bit, until you start getting what you want, and until you start seeing something ugly coming through.

Rough cutting off brass



Now you can change to round bits, and start shaping radii and curves.

roughing closer, ready to change to round ball tools and shape.



Then a little Dremel brand 3M type wheel works great for smoothing and blending the brass into the tubing.

If this was a new, or un-damaged Sting, this would be much easier. Clearly, you can see some of the high spots, dents, and areas that were hit rather carelessly with a die grinder before it was welded.

It is clear that I can not get as close to an original shape weld as I would like, so compromises will have to be left in place.

Too bad I can't just shape it like a new Sting. But with the cracks going all the way around, and the dents and kinks, this will have to do.

Left side, burnished.



This side makes me sad. It is just too banged up to look quite right. IF I spent a week at it and re-welded some more brazing onto there, and maybe did a few more things, like stripped it all and TIG welded it, or spliced in some new tubing, I could get it like new. But, that is what I am trying to avoid here.

The objective is to cheat the system, and not have to strip chrome, replace tubing, and re-chrome everything.

Once you start polishing, any little distortion is going to show.

Right side burnished



The left side is coming out nicely. Not too bad, all things considered.

polishing left side




I really wish there was less damage on this side. There was all kinds of compromises that needed to remain here. Such is life I guess, but I prefer things to be a little closer to being correct, but, I didn't damage it, I didn't do the original fix, and I can't control it's past, only work with what I have. So I'll have to live with it.


Polishing right side



Now, as you have seen, Stings are brazed. This is basically melted brass, which has been applied with a torch, and sanded and shaped before finishing.

So, without stripping, and re-polishing everything, and re-chroming the whole frame, the question is; "how can I make it look decent, and blend in the repair to the existing chrome?".

I am going to use a little bit of trickenometry, mixed with some basic science.

The idea here is that brass readily accepts solder. Chrome, and chrome-moly, does not. So, if the theory is correct, I should be able to apply some low temperature silver solder to the brass, and cover it up with a solder, that contains silver.

Silver, looks an awful lot like chrome when polished. On the downside, silver tarnishes, and will need to be polished up once in a while. However, as opposed to basic lead and tin solder, it should match nicely, and last a lot longer.

The problem will be applying it smoothly, and evenly, while filling air bubbles and pits that were left behind for me by the original repair artisan.

Using a torch, I have applied acid flux, and carefully spread low temp silver solder onto all the brass welds. As planned, it is not taking on the parent metals.

Silver solder applied.



Now, the final, and most difficult trick, is to smooth, and polish the silver solder, WITHOUT going through it and re-exposing the brass underneath, as well as blending a smooth feather edge to the tubing base metal.

But, using the methods I've shown in the polishing thread, here goes nothin"....

Someone needs to drop a quick reply here so I can add another post with more pix...

Break 8 pix limit. Attempting an edit to avoid "merging" two posts, and exceeding my pix limit.

quick "reply"

I guess it's already time for some initial before and after pix.

I have not started on the forks yet, and truthfully, I was not expecting a fork repair with this. So I am going to take a break, as I need to get back to my airplane for a while, and the forks are a whole different ball game. They may need to go to Rod, but, ....we'll see.

Left side before.



Left side came out decent. You can see where the colors merge from chrome to having a brass tint, where the chrome was compromised in the original weld from the high temperatures, and then it turns to some raw chrome-moly steel color, and then to silver solder.

there is also some incandescent lighting above it which adds some yellow illusions as well.

But, I think it looks a little better now.

Left side completed





Right side before



Again, the imperfections here kind of make me feel like I should have spent a month on it, and done a better job, but, I just can't do that for obvious reasons. But, it too, looks a little better than it did I think.

Right side completed.



Look down before



Look down after



It is anything but perfect, and compared to a mint chrome Sting, it is obvious that it is not a mint frame. In some lights and angles it is better than others. But it was pretty bad before, and it should alleviate some of the pain from the childhood blank stare that has irked our fellow member here, for so many years, from so many years ago.

As for the decals. I found the DMB decal on the right had a few cuts in it, and I may have damaged it more while working on the frame. But, I successfully removed both of them and installed them onto wax paper. They can be sprayed with spray 77 glue, and re-applied OK I think.

The decals I have installed are basically mostly scraps. The Sting downtube decals are re-pops that I removed from one of my bikes a while back. They are a little stretched, and they don't sit real nice on the lower edges. They are not great, they are not real, but as far as I am concerned they were in the trash anyway, so the price was right.

The rear sparkles, are a set of the worst re-pops that I have seen. They don't stick well, and are not very accurate. They are also priced right.

The Tri-oval decal was also removed from one of mine. It too, is a re-pop, albeit a very good one, however, when I got an original it was removed, and I consider it used scrap.

The Schwinn decal is an original, and was new.

Consider these decals a "Schwinn Sting Collector Starter Set". Or, a .... Better than nothing for now set. The price is right too.....
Whole frame shot.



I am going to take a break on the forks and go work on a plane for a while.

Cheers.

As always, any questions or what not, the floor is always open.

T

Nothing short of amazing!!!

That'll make a GREAT rider that you wont feel TOO bad about beating on!

Hey Ted...got your next project for ya...my 84 Hutch trick star with another stuck post and some other issues.....

Love your work Ted.

I know the personal bar you set is high - but good grief, don't be so hard on your work - that is just a brilliant save of a frame that really, to me looked unsalvageable without major tube replacement.

I've done enough modelling to know how rewarding that attention to detail is - you should be very proud of that job.

Cheers mate.

I just read through this with a mixture of tingles on the back of my neck and finding my jaw hanging open (as cliche as that sounds, but true)

Your understanding of metalurgy astounds me, to think I was going to start "carving" this with a pneumatic carbide tipped dye grinder then sand it.... oh gawd, it gives me creepy chills to think of what I'd have done.

Holy sh_t!

Back from the grave is about the only way to describe it.

As I'd said, my hope was that one day, when I had a son, he would be able to ride it. I still need to get busy on having a son (and marriage, for that matter), but I can see now that Bridge City's urgings for me to at least restore it for the time being (probably as a vintage display for the shop for the time being, anyway - anybody know any nice single gals that are into BMX/cycling and looking to start a family? ) were worth the "leap", and he certainly knew the right man for the frame work.

Truly amazing.

Thanks to you and Mark, I will definitely be restoring it as close to original as possible, and, once completed, it will go alongside my first-gen Haro Freestyler (which just needs some TLC) and Schwinn Circuit road bike, all of which are pieces of my personal cycling history. My shop is small. I'm by no means getting rich off of it. But cycling has been in my blood my whole life, and I love it.

Thank you for doing this!

Ted Carl,

Thanks for the amazing step by step. Incredible work! I raced a Scwinn Sting in the early 80's and had no idea they were brazed. Never thought much about it as a kid to tell you the truth. Stings are awesome bikes and I plan to find and build one some day. I have learned many things from this post as well as your OA thread. I thank you kind sir! You are a great asset to the sport!

jk

How come you just did not replace the seat mast ?

Holy Tri-Oval Chromoly!!!

Ted you truly are the mad scientist! The silver solder trick is way cool.

Very nice save of a frame that obviously meant something to someone. The Paramount Room would be proud of your efforts....

Fair enough question.


Primarily, "The objective is to cheat the system, and not have to strip chrome, replace tubing, and re-chrome everything."

There are a few good reasons for not replacing the seat mast. Although it should be noted, that if a seat tube replacement was to be done, a lot of other issues could be repaired at the same time, and the frame could be brought back to like new cosmetic condition.

1. It's not my bike.

2. Cost effectiveness.

3. It is already chrome plated. Stripping chrome is a tricky and risky process with any bike, however, since Stings have thin wall tubing that has been stretched even thinner, ovalized, and double butted, it is extra risky.

They are also brazed, so when you strip one of its chrome, you risk other damage when stripping it. The chemical they use for stripping chrome is very nasty, and it eats brass like candy (if it can eat Chromium and Nickel, that makes brass a quick snack for it.) . Since the frames are brazed, you will lose a bunch of the original welds during stripping even if the plater is careful, and baby sits it vigilantly while stripping it. If stripped poorly, you may lose a lot of the original welds, (or ALL of it) and have to re-weld the whole thing just to have enough build up left on it. Then you would have to re-shape, and re-polish all the welds, just as they did in the Paramount room BITD. So much for simple striping and plating.

The up side of this, is that issues like the head tube crack, is in the brazed weld, so that could be fixed at that point.

4. As stated, Stings are Tri-ovalized, which means that 3 of the tubes have been "ovalized" or stretched to increase weld area and strength, as well as double butted tubing. One of the ovalized tubes being the seat tube. The lower third of the seat tube is ovalized and double butted. This is not an easy thing to duplicate without the original tubing fabrication tooling. This is no simple straight seat post tube here, like on most bikes.

This is your frame BTW, not one of mine. Supervisor Dakota says it looks OK too. So this is another view of the Brige City challenge repair.

Note substantial ovalizing and location of double butted area.



Therefore, you would want to splice in a seat tube section about half way up, above the ovalized section, and above the double butted section too. Once you do this, you would have an ugly TIG weld you need to deal with. It would need to be filed off, sanded and polished, and it would have to be very straight and neat to not show after plating. This can be done, but polishing and blending this in, would be a substantial task. (again $$$$, and time)

And of course now you would have one tube with no chrome plating at all. (no blending that with silver solder, lol) So you are committed to either painting it, or stripping it, and re-plating the whole thing.

This is why I always say; "It's easier to chrome plate a painted frame, and to paint a chromed frame". In either case, the chrome and nickel does not need to be stripped, which is the big deal.

So, I guess those are the reasons. He wanted to fix what was there (this started in another thread BTW) , without getting into an overly expensive re-build of the whole frame.

Anything can be done, but how much do you want to spend on it?

As I see it, here is how it would go down. You would need to strip the chrome off of it first ($100, and some begging of the plater, since it's brazed, and he won't want to have anything to do with it.). Then you would need to remove the welds at the seat mast, and cut the seat tube down. Then TIG weld in a spliced section and re-braze the mast together. Then grind, file, sand, shape, and polish out the TIG weld as well as the new brazing, (and hope there is no lumps on the inside of the tubing to deal with so the seat post can go in)($100 if you are lucky). Then you would need to fix all dents, cracks, and lost brazing on the entire frame, and grind, sand, and polish all of that out (paying someone to do it? $100 easy). Then you would need to polish it all and chrome plate it ($250 or more). Then put real decals on it ($200+). Jobbed out, with decals, $750 easy.

I could do it. But, personally, I still wouldn't, unless it had substantial sentimental value. It would easily cost double what I paid for my mint original chrome Sting.

So it was a sentimental save. It has history, and this just adds more history to it. .

And if he ever wants to take it to the next level, it can still be done. The solder can come off, and tubes can still be spliced, but it will be time to get out the checkbook at that point.

Personally, If I wanted a flawless chrome Sting, I'd buy a painted one with some minor issues (like the one I bought from Sprinter, lol) , strip the damaged paint, polish it, and plate it to perfection, and it would still cost more that way. (I've done just that, so I am certain of it). But then I'd have a flawless "Show Plated Sting", at a more reasonable cost. (I have one on my wall like that, lol)

And you can see how if you really want to, you can finish what the Paramount boys started when polishing the welds before plating, and you can make them reallllly nice. ( I couldn't resist pulling this shot from the TGIF thread with my [yes it's glued on and fake, and was done for a joke, so don't beat me up, lol] mount screw for hanging it on the wall. The welds were all sweet, to varying degrees on the Stings, depending on who welded it, and who polished them, and what day of the week it was. You can compare the factory weld above to my handy work on one of mine here. Proving there is always room for a little tweaking towards perfection...lol.

(this one is one of mine, which I show chromed) (same tri-oval re-pop sticker that I just gave away though!, lol)



But the stripping chrome and repairing it, all in one deal, is not a cheap way to go, unless you have the skills and time to do it all yourself, and REALLLLLLY want YOUR bike done right at ANY cost.

There is the aircraft maintenance side of me that says, "any repair should be as good or better than new, and cost is no object". Then there is the realist in me that says, "it's an old broken down kids bike, and it's not worthy of any repairs". Then there is the pragmatist in me that says, "let's find a way to bring this sentimental and very cool item back the best way possible, that is cost effective, realistic, and makes the best of what you've got." ....The pragmatist in me usually wins.

So, that's my thoughts on it. The rest you'd have to get from him.

BTW, thanks for the heartfelt props guys.

Ok...total n00b question here...

What is the Paramount room?

Be gentle......

Ditch,

The little old bicycle co at 1856 N. Kostner in Chicago (Schwinn) had a special room, or annex if you will. They built the Paramounts, the dream bikes, the best of the best. Hand crafted road bikes.

Marc Muller came to power, and also took on another project, the Schwinn Sting, to be the best of the best, and to be hand crafted in .....The Paramount room at 1856 N Kosner Ave, Chicago.




Paramount History

The Schwinn Paramount represents the cultural roots of Waterford. For decades America's leading competition and custom bike, the Paramount represented the ultimate aspiration of every young American racer and bike builder.

From its introduction in 1938 to the final bikes of the 1990's, the Paramount advanced both the art and science of bicycle design and craftsmanship, as Waterford has continued in its own history. For this reason it holds a special place in our hearts.

We've divided the Paramount history into three phases. First the early years from 1938 through 1958. Paramount burst on the scene in the late 30's and enjoyed phenomenal sales, only to be nearly snuffed out by World War II. After the war, interest in racing and fine bicycles waned until the late 50's.

Second came the so-called Classic Years from 1958 to 1979. This is the period when Paramount dominated the US pro bike scene and inspired many a racer and builder.

Finally came the Waterford Paramount era, led by Marc Muller. This became the basis Waterford Precision Cycles.

A link to another thread I started a while back. Have a look. Albeit, you will be about 31,000 views behind the curve. and it's less fun since they took the pictures away, and you have to click on them now. Scott, Randy, Ol Bob, and many others contributed to this vast Sting data base.

http://www.schwinnbike.com/heritage/showth...ghlight=kostner

Also,

http://waterfordbikes.com/now/home.php?newstype=paramount

Sub category, culture, Paramount history.

"Then there is the pragmatist in me that says, "let's find a way to bring this sentimental and very cool item back the best way possible, that is cost effective, realistic, and makes the best of what you've got." ....The pragmatist in me usually wins."

This is called heart and just what the ol frame needed. And now I shall christen you the Godfather of your very own vintage Genre, Presentable Nostalgic. If Elvis could be so kind to add it to the forum list....


In our town we had 2 bike shops "BITD" A Raleigh Rampar shop and a Schwinn shop called Sriver's Cyclery. I'd probably pay 50 bucks for a Sriver shop sticker if I could find one, to put on my own Sting.
Rampars were what they were, but the Sting was a legend, even in 79 it came out right on top as if it had a 30 year race legacy already. Not just something to ride, something to fall in love with.

One of our friends had this bike, which was THE bike by which all others were compared and looking back was probably the most trick race bike to come out of our town. And it still exists just like this in a local basement.

Between cracked and split open dropouts, and crude brazing, as well as very careless die grinding, these still remain an open, and uncompleted part of the challenge.



Not pretty.



More of the same.




Hmmm. To be continued.

Consider this the Extra Credit on a test you already Aced. Can you get that extra plus sign after the A plus?

Here are some forks that Rod M. repaired.
They were really impressive up close. I'm curious to know how he got them so evenly ground down after adding all of the circular weld. Then the next step is the perfectly aligned drilling for the dropouts.

Is that done with a special jig?

Ted Carl could beat the heck out of Chuck Norris!

Nice work and great documentation.

I've said it before....Ted Carl is God!

every time i see a mangled frame i cant help but think to myself "what would ted carl do" (wwtcd)

Negative, I am still in training.


Ok, here is an update.

After a couple of hours with a 90 degree high speed, and a die grinder, they are starting to look like dropouts again. But only remotely. Apparently a very hard and wear resistant welding rod was used for this repair. This stuff does NOT want to come off.

For some reason I thought this was brazing when I first glanced at them, but I know that is not the case now.


Forks after grinding has started.



At this point I continued grinding with a die grinder and a fresh wheel. And then I started straightening the blades. I used a large brass hammer, as well as an adjustable crescent wrench to get them as straight as I could.

Then I sanded and ground some more, and finished straightening.

Then I switched to a 3M wheel on the high speed. Brown wheels are very aggressive, Red is less aggressive, and blue is mild. Smoothing and straightening here. Notice I have left all the strength for the straightening. IOW I did not drill the missing holes yet.

Inboard brown wheel



Then I worked down to a blue wheel. I could get access to the outside with the larger wheels, but inside I had to use the shorter small wheels.

I also took care of the nasty grinder hacks, and weld spatters at this point.

Outboard blue wheel.



Then I went to one of my Sting forks, and used my dirty fingers to make a rubbing on a piece of paper.

Then I clamped the paper aligned with the holes and drilled a start hole.

Dirty finger rubbing.



Then using a step drill bit, or "Uni-Bit", I checked size of the dropout safety washer holes, and the axle holes. THese bits work great for stuff like this, as they oversize holes step by step, and they don't grab like a regular drill bit.

I reshaped and re sized the axle holes with it too here. Then touched them up with a spur bit.

Note: The lower holes on Gen 1 Sting forks were for safety washers. This is where they cracked. In mid 1980 they made the dropouts 50% thicker, and raised the lower hole, and made all the holes smaller for greater strength. They didn't need safety washers, as they went with "slotted" axle dropouts. They never broke after that.

Step drill.



And here is how they sit now.

There are still some pit's and air bubbles, but most of them are behind the axle nuts and washers, so they wont be seen. So I am not going to worry about them.

Some welds were damaged in the original repair, but I am not going to go crazy on them. If you wanted to, these could be re TIG welded, but then again, the dropouts could be replaced, and they could be re-chromed to perfection, Or, they could be.......(etc...) . But that is not the plan here.

Ready to start with some finishing touch ups with the Dremel, and sanding and polishing. But these are taking some serous time already.



You will note, there is still no airplane fuselage being built on the plans. D'oh!

Until polishing begins.

Cheers.

Ted, you should have your own forum here. Great work. I always look forward to your tech posts. Awesome. Just awesome. BTW. I've decided I going over to 1856 N Kosner Ave in the morning. Have to see the spot and whats there now. Oh and nice sc45 there too.

Awesome Ted - can't wait to see those babies polished. What a difference already.

i agree awesome job all te way.

Hard to believe the frame and fork are the same ones when looking at the befores and afters. Amazing work!

...and I did mention in here a couple of times that there were good intentions in these "repairs" by my friend and his dad (who was a construction welder, hence the hardness of the weld repairs), while the bike was in his possession years ago, so I can't really bring myself to say, "What an idiot." They meant well, but I can certainly see that, in the case of this type of frame, it may have been better had they just left the frame and fork cracked/broken and chosen an alternate "fix".

My utmost thanks for your accepting the "challenge". It is truly eye opening, and educational, to see even a "basic" (i.e., budget-minded) repair in the hands of a craftsman.

Wow, what an incredible read! I can't wait to see how this finishes out.

Ted, we need to catch up sometime soon and shovel some BS.

I love the "wwtcd"... Big laugh there

"wwtcd".....Yeah, BIG laugh there Pauly.....Jerk face! lol. Good thing most don't get it! lol.

Just, lettiner slide man, lettiner slide...lol.

~~~presses enter to go build a fuselage~~~~

I've decided to polish them when (at the same time) I am polishing my landing gear on my new plane, that way the plane has to get moving first before I will need the landing gear. And it actually makes sense, as I only have to make the polishing mess once. Two for one deal, with incentive to stop typing now...lol.

SE Landing Gear on a model plane?
Priceless!

As I mentioned early on, The Sting project managed to land on TOP of my blueprints of my other "before spring thaw" project.

I didn't think this would be a problem, as I could share my time with each of them.

However, I must apologize to the owner of this project, as I am certain he has a "parent's love" for his Sting.

I honestly thought the two projects could play nice together, but as I was closing up shop tonight, I caught my airplane saying something, that was not very nice, to The Sting project bike.

It said: "Neener, neener, neener", .....and not in a nice way.

I assure you, I will do what it takes to ensure there is no permanent psychological damage to your Sting, and my plane will be duly reprimanded.



I am sure you can see why there is some conflict with having both items going at the same time, however, that was just not right either.



BTW, this photo offers an insight into my next useful article: "1001 uses for marble bases taken from old VBMX trophies."

That's how much of the plane you completed since your last posting! Holy Cow!
I trust you'll unveil the finished plane on this thread, too, right?

the owner won't mind the delay I imagine and if he gets too restless I'll loan him mine again.....
So Josh, when ARE we going on that bike cruise, anyway?

still have my sting from 79',got it as a co-sponser from belmont schwinn,won the 79' 8yr old expert world championship on it, and I cracked it by the seat tube around 1981 or 82,before I got a first year haro freestyler. was wondering how I can get the sting fixed,its sitting in my dads attic collecting dust and was never touched after I cracked it.how would I go about this or who would I have to talk to about getting it fixed? that was some amazing work done on that sting!!!!! I've learned soo much info about the sting,and was thinking about mine. AMAZING!!!!!! DAN

Well, I finally found a couple hours to bring this one a step closer to being presentable.

At this point, I realized that I just have too many irons in the fire. I also had to make a few decisions on how far to take this project.

There is a lot of previous damage, that can't be undone without some serious re-work. So I decided to try and leave the fork blades with a finish that acceptably blends with the rest of it.

I also realized that I could spend many, many, many hours on the forks alone, and to do that, a guy would be better off replacing the blades, and refinishing them completely.

So, here is where I left them.




They are not perfect, and there is welding heat damage, welding craters, and die grinder damage that was done to them long ago. Not to mention plain old battle scars. So where does a guy draw the line? Here is where I drew it.

Before. Bent, welded, rusty, crooked, and then some. So should I make them perfectly straight, and perfectly mirrored? It would only take the eye to the weld damage, and then to the gouges, and then to.... So let's leave them with a slightly "used" look.




After.



And so.....from the beginning....




It looks more like a Sting than it did.... And it can still be masaged more, or rebuilt to original by Marc Muller if so desired. But it seems to hold it's own a bit better now... Some wheels, and a seat clamp, and some fresh fork stickies, and it should only look better from here!

Front right.



Side view.



It is boxed up, and ready to go to the PO. However, I seem to miss my shipping windows at the PO a lot lately. But you should have it back soon!

As for the other (of many going on here), I might actually get to go flying too now. But there is still a few things between here and there...lol



Cheers

Hats off to you Ted. Top class conservation.

True conservation too "As much as necessary as little as possible".

PS.

Sooooo does this get me a T-shirt? lol....

Ted, your work is special. I met you at Rockford in 2006 as a newbie and was amazed at the way all your bikes looked; better than new in most cases. Now that I see what you can do with a beat up F&F I know why. Thanks for the resto inspiration.

I followed this thread through very nice work, shows what a little hard work and ambition will get ya. Dang nice there and sweet plane too.

oh wow, i hadn't noticed you replied to the thread!

Amazing. When I can get all the original parts for this bike dug up I'll try to get it built for him and update this thread with a pic of it hanging in the window.

The owner is out of town for a couple of days but I'm sure he'll have something to say.

Great job on the plane. Is that the one you just built, mentioned above?

You should get a Tshirt. If Mike doesn't offer one up, shoot I'll buy you a vbmx shirt of your choice.

Hey Ted,
Josh's frame set just arrived in the mail.

Holy Bejebeezers! It's splendid to see up close and in person.
The forks are brilliant, too. When mounted with washers, it's good as new.

I'll email you for particulars on payment for your time, shipping, effort, and Minnesota awesomeness.
(Can I interest you in an Iowa Hawkeye Tshirt, or a bumper sticker)

Mark brought the F&F by the shop this afternoon. Amazing work, Ted. Really.

Hopefully I can repay you for this, so let me know what you feel is fair.

And, yes, there will be a pic posted when it has been rebuilt.

Thanks again!

just caught up with this thread

Wow Ted that is quite some transformation
amazing work

so is it together for veiwing yet?

The suspense is killing me.

Sorry for the delay, summer isn't the best time for playing bicycle...

the headset and front wheel got put on the bike yesterday.
I should have it together soon, as I get parts cleaned up.