There was a bike show in St. Louis last weekend and some friends and myself all brought bikes over. We all know each others bikes pretty well as it is fun to talk to at least one person you know locally when you get something new and exciting who understands. Both the guys are very cool and we all get along well. Both are memebers here but not on as often as I am (I don't think).
So when registering for the bikes show we were asking each other which category to put the bikes in.
Dictionary reference Original means:
A COIN -
Refers to a coin that has not been "doctored", ie cleaned or tampered with post the original minting process.
A MAP -
A map printed from the plate before alteration or destruction of the plate
AN AIRPLANE -
A specimen that can be shown to be in the original as-build configuration, or as modified by the user, that remains unaltered from the time that it ended operational service.
ALSO off an Airplane site:
Original
A specimen that can be shown to be in the original as-build configuration, or as modified by the user, that remains unaltered from the time that it ended operational service.
Restored original
An aircraft composed of at least 50% original components (by surface area or volume), and the remainder returned to accurate early condition made with the same materials, components and accessories.
With that said (still open to a lot of debate) - what is restored? Any item that has been changed? What is acceptible for a restoration?
One buddy said "original paint and decals is an original bike. What if it is chrome? Original decals but every part of the bike is NOS? So basiclly his theory is the "BIKE" is oriignal as long as the FRAME is original?
Let the debate begin (I know it has in other threads) but I want to get the majority to rule. Even turn it into a vote after some feedback to hopefully clear this matter up for us.
My Theory is - if you have to take it all apart, put all NOS or very near mint parts on an orignal paint/decal frame it is still restored.
Original is my Mathews MS-1 with the oriignal tires and old air even in the tires.
Full Version: Bike Shows - "original" Or "restored"
This right here is a debate that will go on for a very long time. What is restored, survivor, original, yata, yata, yata.
My $.02 - These are my personal definitions of complete bikes. Take them with a grain of salt if you must.
Survivor/Original - untouched since it's original era. The bike was put away in a garage in 1984 and never ridden or changed again.
Restored/Original finish -- Original finish, and restored parts (maybe a few NOS parts)
Restored/Refinished - original finish was beyond restoration and had to be stripped and replaced
Refinished - good original finish complete that gets stripped of paint and parts that "weren't up to snuff" and then repainted or replaced with NOS parts. Usually looks NOS if done well. (This happens all too often in my opinion -- if those parts aren't good enough for you, give them to me!!
)
NOS Original - Factory complete that has never been ridden
NOS Build - complete bike built with all or mostly NOS parts (maybe a few excellently restored parts)
One category that will always be debated is what a lot of folks call "Survivor build". Basically, a complete built up with all or mostly unrestored random parts that weren't original to the bike (not found as a complete survivor). No NOS part here.
To complicate things further is how people think of completes. A lot of folks only think of factory completes -- how it came in the manufacturers catalog. A lot of times, random parts were changed as they were built at the shop that sold the bike. And if you're like me, you never owned a factory complete, or if you did, you changed it a lot over time. I was always changing parts, and eventually frames. My bikes were always constantly evolving.
I warn you in advance -- this debate may never die.
My $.02 - These are my personal definitions of complete bikes. Take them with a grain of salt if you must.
Survivor/Original - untouched since it's original era. The bike was put away in a garage in 1984 and never ridden or changed again.
Restored/Original finish -- Original finish, and restored parts (maybe a few NOS parts)
Restored/Refinished - original finish was beyond restoration and had to be stripped and replaced
Refinished - good original finish complete that gets stripped of paint and parts that "weren't up to snuff" and then repainted or replaced with NOS parts. Usually looks NOS if done well. (This happens all too often in my opinion -- if those parts aren't good enough for you, give them to me!!
)NOS Original - Factory complete that has never been ridden
NOS Build - complete bike built with all or mostly NOS parts (maybe a few excellently restored parts)
One category that will always be debated is what a lot of folks call "Survivor build". Basically, a complete built up with all or mostly unrestored random parts that weren't original to the bike (not found as a complete survivor). No NOS part here.
To complicate things further is how people think of completes. A lot of folks only think of factory completes -- how it came in the manufacturers catalog. A lot of times, random parts were changed as they were built at the shop that sold the bike. And if you're like me, you never owned a factory complete, or if you did, you changed it a lot over time. I was always changing parts, and eventually frames. My bikes were always constantly evolving.
I warn you in advance -- this debate may never die.
I myself could care less. I built my Kos Kruiser to my specs. it's a 1980 f/f, unstamped kos bars, with dia-compe mx1000 brakes, pro neck stem, blue Araya 7x rims with Campy low flange records, Elina
lightning seat, shimano dx pedals, Odi mushroom II's, and an america made pair of 185mm Flite II's. most of the things I put on my bike are in the early 80's era, so like the guys were saying earlier, you probably changed parts out for better ones over time. I built mine as a rider not a trailer queen/wall art dust collector. the dust mine gets will be from the track or trails in the summertime. well if I offended anyone, I'm sorry, ride it like you stole it or like it was ment to be. he who dies with the most toys, still dies and you can't take'm with, unless you got a big hole.
lightning seat, shimano dx pedals, Odi mushroom II's, and an america made pair of 185mm Flite II's. most of the things I put on my bike are in the early 80's era, so like the guys were saying earlier, you probably changed parts out for better ones over time. I built mine as a rider not a trailer queen/wall art dust collector. the dust mine gets will be from the track or trails in the summertime. well if I offended anyone, I'm sorry, ride it like you stole it or like it was ment to be. he who dies with the most toys, still dies and you can't take'm with, unless you got a big hole.
oh, i always like to be in the room during this discussion.
so here's my slanted angle that may add nothing.
always liked the opinion my high school physics teacher had that complex problems are easier to figure out if you blow them up to be huge or make them very tiny.
I was working in my dad's shop room yesterday, painting some old junked out bmx parts....
at the same time he is restoring some late 1700s/1800s clocks which he's done as a hobby for years.
the concept of NOS or survivor is completely moot when you stretch the debate out that many decades/centuries. you wouldn't get a NOS or survivor spring to work in some of those instances even if it was kept in a climate controlled bank vault for 1.5 centuries.
so here's my slanted angle that may add nothing.
always liked the opinion my high school physics teacher had that complex problems are easier to figure out if you blow them up to be huge or make them very tiny.
I was working in my dad's shop room yesterday, painting some old junked out bmx parts....
at the same time he is restoring some late 1700s/1800s clocks which he's done as a hobby for years.
the concept of NOS or survivor is completely moot when you stretch the debate out that many decades/centuries. you wouldn't get a NOS or survivor spring to work in some of those instances even if it was kept in a climate controlled bank vault for 1.5 centuries.
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