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BRIAN HAYS
The BD3 was available in tan, brown, baby blue and sizzlin silver (ball burnished) and the Mini Rippers were available in all the loop PK colors.

Does anyone know what colors were offered on the DB4?
B. Apold
QUOTE (BRIAN HAYS @ Jan 30 2008, 07:02 PM) *
The BD3 was available in tan, brown, baby blue and sizzlin silver (ball burnished) and the Mini Rippers were available in all the loop PK colors.

Does anyone know what colors were offered on the DB4?



My friend had a dark metalic blue. I'll post a picture after this. Did you find a DB-IV?? My friends bike came from SE complete with all gold and yeller parts and it was just stunning the first time I laid eyes on it. It had these super sweet mini bars too. Damn !!! anyway I'm thinking DB's came in baby, tan, brown, dark blue and I swear I saw black once too.


Brad


BRIAN HAYS
Ya, Brad. I've seen an ad with a black one too. Thanks for that pic!! That is awesome. I did pick up a frame. No serial number so it's either a BD3 or DB4. Lee Jones says the geometry is different between the two. I know this one is identical to the loop mini Ripper so Lee says it's a DB4. I guess the BD frames had a higher BB and shorter seat tube. Here's what it looked like this morning. I have since stripped it all raw and am having the chainstays repaired and the SocialSecurityNumber ground off of the BB and the left dropout and then gonna get it repowdered.
B. Apold
Ohhhh ya, thats awesome!!! I can't waaaaaaaaaait to see that bike when your done. I've started to dig the smaller bikes more than the pro's now days. Not allot of them around, even back then (frames in general). I thought I saw black before w/ all yeller/gold stuff, like my friends DB-IV only his was blue obviously.. Shan's bike above was so nice. Another bike lost in the madness of bmx past.

Someday, I too will find my CYC ames frame... Boooohooooo!!!!! I'm sad sad.gif It was my first real bike.
John Zook
I have a 78 DB-IV. Mine is now tan with brown and blue accessories. When I got it it was blue. The original owner said it was polished. I will got it out of the garage in the next couple of days and post a couple of pics.
B. Apold
In the photo I posted above I'm looking at the forks thinking they don't look very SE-ish. The bike came complete from SE, did they not stick Landing gears on those??? Its probably a 79 bike. In fact I'm about certain it is.
old-skull
QUOTE (Brrrrrrad A. @ Jan 31 2008, 06:30 AM) *
In the photo I posted above I'm looking at the forks thinking they don't look very SE-ish. The bike came complete from SE, did they not stick Landing gears on those??? Its probably a 79 bike. In fact I'm about certain it is.

Can you expand a little on this? I "sort" of remember these SE's. Late 79 is when I started racing so did they stop production shortly after that?


Old-skull
B. Apold
QUOTE (old-skull @ Jan 31 2008, 11:43 AM) *
Can you expand a little on this? I "sort" of remember these SE's. Late 79 is when I started racing so did they stop production shortly after that?


Old-skull


My point is they were not Landing Gear forks, so what are they? They came on the bike from SE so you'd think they would be anyway. I'll find a better pic.

Brian, Until this post I never knew the DB and Mini ripper were different. news to me, but I never claim to be an SE guru, in fact I don't know much about them at all, and ALL my friends had SE's. Single TT JU-6, original ST-1, DB, red PK, you name it, but I remember the bikes. I was a GT guy for the most part.

There is an OS guy that races here in MN nowdays, and he's from Colorado and as a kid he raced at the track Derek Brown's Dad ran. He knew both Derek and Daddy Brown... cool stuff. DB kinda burned out fast didn't he? I remember him before the bike came out (NBA nationals), then once the bike was out I think hs started racing MX.. sound right? He was a little younger than me.
Steve Bourke
Cyclepro just like the second pic.
B. Apold
QUOTE (Steve Bourke @ Jan 31 2008, 01:39 PM) *
Cyclepro just like the second pic.


That's what they came with huh?? interesting.. thanks for clearing that up.
Evan
From August 1979 BMXA:



B. Apold
Who's the Shimano kid (7x) behind him?? I know he raced forever and his name escapes me.

John Zook
QUOTE (John Zook @ Jan 31 2008, 02:56 AM) *
I have a 78 DB-IV. Mine is now tan with brown and blue accessories. When I got it it was blue. The original owner said it was polished. I will got it out of the garage in the next couple of days and post a couple of pics.


John Zook
I built that bike in 2000. I talked to scot B. a few yars ago and paid him for some down tube stickers but I never got them... Owell.. If anyone knows where I could get some or even one it would be appreciated. I would even take a good scan. The parts breakdown goes like this: SE DB-IV frame,JMC mini forks,DK inverted mini stem,shimano cassette w/araya rims,NOS shimano 600 cranks,NOS KKT pedals,NOS race inc bars,NOS UNI graphite seat/post,NOS dia-compe 901,NOS tufneck clamp,brown and blue SE wing pad set. a'me grips,NOS tioga bear trap headset.
B. Apold
QUOTE (John Zook @ Jan 31 2008, 09:24 PM) *
I built that bike in 2000. I talked to scot B. a few yars ago and paid him for some down tube stickers but I never got them... Owell.. If anyone knows where I could get some or even one it would be appreciated. I would even take a good scan. The parts breakdown goes like this: SE DB-IV frame,JMC mini forks,DK inverted mini stem,shimano cassette w/araya rims,NOS shimano 600 cranks,NOS KKT pedals,NOS race inc bars,NOS UNI graphite seat/post,NOS dia-compe 901,NOS tufneck clamp,brown and blue SE wing pad set. a'me grips,NOS tioga bear trap headset.


that type style shouldn't be hard to find. It looks faily standard. Nice bike. Off the topic, but I'm a huge fan of the JU-6 decals. Awesome!
John Zook
I like all the early se decals. the first gen frame and fork decals are my all time favorite. like the JU-6 and the BD-3 . I also like the first fork decals. I think they said BMX innovations on them.. I could be wrong.
pk ripped
Yep, cycle pros for all the early factory SEs. Landing Gears didnt come out till 1981, maybe late 80.

Brian, thats a sweet bike, way ta go. I wish I had one.

Whats a single TT JU-6?
BRIAN HAYS
Here's a BD3 decal and a DB4 ad

The DB4 and Ripper WERE the same. I guess the BD3 had a higher BB heighth

Ya, the first SE fork decals used on the Cycle Pro forks said BMX Innovations.
B. Apold
QUOTE (pk ripped @ Jan 31 2008, 10:23 PM) *
Yep, cycle pros for all the early factory SEs. Landing Gears didnt come out till 1981, maybe late 80.

Brian, thats a sweet bike, way ta go. I wish I had one.

Whats a single TT JU-6?


Oooops, I meant round TT JU-6.
B. Apold
QUOTE (BRIAN HAYS @ Jan 31 2008, 11:19 PM) *
Here's a BD3 decal and a DB4 ad

The DB4 and Ripper WERE the same. I guess the BD3 had a higher BB heighth

Ya, the first SE fork decals used on the Cycle Pro forks said BMX Innovations.


I've never seen OR noticed those BD3 Scott signed decals that I can remember. My buddy had a tan JU-6... Neat frame man.

Someone post pics of the red/yellow SE suit days. I love first SE stuff.

So the Cycle pro forks were "re-badged" with SE decals right? Trying to refresh the ol'Puter up stairs...

TeamRob
This is the exact bike John Zook now owns. This is a cool old picture with Peddlepower, Proline, Robinson and some cool old bikes ready to race! This should be very close to how you got it.

Go below picture for more info John!




I have called, PM'd and emailed with no response sicne I met you in mid Missouri. You responded to me in a PM andanother post, Thanks John... If you tell someone you can help them out with a part and say it more than once be a man and respond! I know you are here and I just don't get how hard it is to return a phone call or PM or email and say - I can't now. Lost a lot of faith in you. This is usually when people get mad and turn this around to be not their problem... so your up!

As promised by me John - the Picture of your bike.... I stick behind what I say! Keep your wheels, I will find them someplace else with less headaches of items that will never come around.

pk ripped
What a cool pic!! Thats a very dark metallic blue isnt it. What does the sticker say after DB-IV? "PETE"?
TeamRob
Yes, That is what it says "PETE". I am pretty sure the story went, they painted it just for him (he and his Dad). I love thise old pictures NOT racing because you can see the details and how the guys had the Eye of the Tiger!!! Every single one seems like they just want to race!
John Zook
QUOTE (TeamRob @ Feb 1 2008, 02:20 AM) *
This is the exact bike John Zook now owns. This is a cool old picture with Peddlepower, Proline, Robinson and some cool old bikes ready to race! This should be very close to how you got it.

Go below picture for more info John!




I have called, PM'd and emailed with no response sicne I met you in mid Missouri. You responded to me in a PM andanother post, Thanks John... If you tell someone you can help them out with a part and say it more than once be a man and respond! I know you are here and I just don't get how hard it is to return a phone call or PM or email and say - I can't now. Lost a lot of faith in you. This is usually when people get mad and turn this around to be not their problem... so your up!

As promised by me John - the Picture of your bike.... I stick behind what I say! Keep your wheels, I will find them someplace else with less headaches of items that will never come around.

I have had alot going on latley ROB!!! I haven't been able to get ahold of Neal again anyway. I do have a life other than worry about BMX stuff... relax.. the parts aren't going anywhere.
TeamRob
John,

I have a life too and it take 2 minutes to give an update. See how easy that could have been! You laid out the groundwork, I am just calling you on it! I knew this would spark the "relax" or "parts still there". Look how long it took to get a response in public! Sorry you have a life other than BMX. If that is the case, why is it that you were/are here so often (I always checked before I called. PM'd or emailed) when your last visit was. That is an all out insult to my intelligence. Sad! John you lost your cell phone in a car (said Porsche, like that mattered). YOu have not talked to Neal since the day you told me about the wheels, but in one PM you told me he was going out of town... I have lost trust for you. Good luck with your stories and don't sweat me, I will find them without you. Thanks for the offer though, that was sure worth a lot. Why don't we just block eash oher and then you can continue your life as if we never met!
pk ripped
Yes sir, its a very dark blue indeed.

You know, the hues of blues would change from batch to batch. Sometimes they outsourced different powdercoaters at the same time to keep up with demands and therefore colors varied. Its true. wink.gif
John Zook
QUOTE (TeamRob @ Feb 1 2008, 07:49 AM) *
John,

I have a life too and it take 2 minutes to give an update. See how easy that could have been! You laid out the groundwork, I am just calling you on it! I knew this would spark the "relax" or "parts still there". Look how long it took to get a response in public! Sorry you have a life other than BMX. If that is the case, why is it that you were/are here so often (I always checked before I called. PM'd or emailed) when your last visit was. That is an all out insult to my intelligence. Sad! John you lost your cell phone in a car (said Porsche, like that mattered). YOu have not talked to Neal since the day you told me about the wheels, but in one PM you told me he was going out of town... I have lost trust for you. Good luck with your stories and don't sweat me, I will find them without you. Thanks for the offer though, that was sure worth a lot. Why don't we just block eash oher and then you can continue your life as if we never met!

I have one thing to say STALKER!!!!! get over it.
B. Apold
Great, another thread within a thread.... take it somewhere else guys!
TeamRob
Why would someone want to Stalk anyone and usually people don't choose a loser (people know here that I am not Stalking you in anyway!)? That is all there is to it. In one PM it totally defines YOU - You told me about finding a Cook Bros chained to a pole. You said if it was there next time you saw it, it was yours one way or another, if anyone was around or not.... SO you are not above stealing (I do have the PM and can do a screen shot for you if you want to lie some more). You are a loser John and it is evident! When you told me you owned a bike shop (not sure how) and some guys near you would not even deal with you locally now days because they know you personally, it raised some flags! I find it funny that you think I need you for anything!!!! Even at the begining of THIS first post - you said "relax" (and quickly) and the "stuff is there" (2 responses witin 12 hours) now that you got called out your reponse is "Stalker". John, your health sucks, your life sucks and your excuses suck! Life is going to be easier when you do things the right way. Count the number of response I have to you!
If I am a stalker please, please (if your middle initial is "M" and you worked at Dealer's Trim - they will know you pretty well) call the POLICE right away and see if they will file charges. SLANDER is a crime too John! Phone calls from me asking to please give me an update or the couple of emails asking if you heard anything. You are on BLOCK - John you are not playing with a full deck. Explain how you go from everything is cool response to, Stalker in two post?

Brrrrad - these post get like this because immature people think if they ignore something / someone it goes away. This all could have been easily avoided and only responded to now because he has such a great reputation to protect.



Now back to LIFE -

The color on the DB IV pictured is deep blue but pretty sure that was a custom (not original) or even rattle can paint job with custom decals. The original finish of that frame was said to be burnished.

Someone else (think it was Brian Hays) mentioned the difference between a DB III, DB IV and a Mini Ripper. What are the exact differences? The top tube or the seat mast? The rear chainstays? I have more than one friend locally that have what were thought to be Mini Rippers. None of these models (I am NOT an SE guy and have never owned one yet) have the front reinforcement on the downtube.

he closest thing I have to an SE is a Cycle Pro Foiler. That was the only frame I truly rememebered being high dollar from my era. I looked for that one for a long time and still need a fork for it.
John Zook
QUOTE (TeamRob @ Feb 1 2008, 02:33 PM) *
Why would someone want to Stalk anyone and usually people don't choose a loser (people know here that I am not Stalking you in anyway!)? That is all there is to it. In one PM it totally defines YOU - You told me about finding a Cook Bros chained to a pole. You said if it was there next time you saw it, it was yours one way or another, if anyone was around or not.... SO you are not above stealing (I do have the PM and can do a screen shot for you if you want to lie some more). You are a loser John and it is evident! When you told me you owned a bike shop (not sure how) and some guys near you would not even deal with you locally now days because they know you personally, it raised some flags! I find it funny that you think I need you for anything!!!! Even at the begining of THIS first post - you said "relax" (and quickly) and the "stuff is there" (2 responses witin 12 hours) now that you got called out your reponse is "Stalker". John, your health sucks, your life sucks and your excuses suck! Life is going to be easier when you do things the right way. Count the number of response I have to you!
If I am a stalker please, please (if your middle initial is "M" and you worked at Dealer's Trim - they will know you pretty well) call the POLICE right away and see if they will file charges. SLANDER is a crime too John! Phone calls from me asking to please give me an update or the couple of emails asking if you heard anything. You are on BLOCK - John you are not playing with a full deck. Explain how you go from everything is cool response to, Stalker in two post?

Brrrrad - these post get like this because immature people think if they ignore something / someone it goes away. This all could have been easily avoided and only responded to now because he has such a great reputation to protect.



Now back to LIFE -

The color on the DB IV pictured is deep blue but pretty sure that was a custom (not original) or even rattle can paint job with custom decals. The original finish of that frame was said to be burnished.

Someone else (think it was Brian Hays) mentioned the difference between a DB III, DB IV and a Mini Ripper. What are the exact differences? The top tube or the seat mast? The rear chainstays? I have more than one friend locally that have what were thought to be Mini Rippers. None of these models (I am NOT an SE guy and have never owned one yet) have the front reinforcement on the downtube.

he closest thing I have to an SE is a Cycle Pro Foiler. That was the only frame I truly rememebered being high dollar from my era. I looked for that one for a long time and still need a fork for it.

Dude you have blown this thing way out of perspective. looks like you have shown your true colors...... wow U did a google search on me. slander??? what R U talking about. Whatever dude. grow up and get a life. I simply posted a few pics. and you freak out because I didn't get back with you. you are a true class act. get over it... Nevermind... loosers such as your self have nothing better to do than complain about stuff because you have no life.
by the way guys sorry I responded to this toppic... I didn't ralize that there was a natzi waiting to hijack this thread. Rob please let me know when it is OK for me to post something on vintage. People such as yourself is the reason why I don't deal with alot of people. cool... I hope you feel better about yourself. Once again guys sorry for the drama. JZ
BRIAN HAYS
Guys. Please take it elsewhere. Thank you.

Rob, I thought that the BD3, DB4 and mini Ripper WERE all identical but Lee Jones has info that states that the BD3 had a higher BB so that makes the seat tube shorter. The DB4 and Ripper ARE the same. The only difference is that the Ripper has a serial number on the right rear dropout starting with MR (for Mini Ripper) and the DB has NO serial number. NONE of the 3 frames had a headtube gusset . The ONLY frame in this style with a gussett was the PK Ripper. The BD, DB, Ripper, JU6 and Floval had no gusset.

Check the ad pics of the BD3 too from 78. It appears that the top tube of the BD was a SMALLER floval diameter at first but notice Tim Cooks frame has the standard top tube. Odd.



Elvis
Best options, in order of best:

- Take it to phone
- Take it to Email
- Take it to PM
- Take it to the Negative forum

Worst option:

- Keep it here

You guys are how old?
Guest200901
B. Apold
Cool bike Brian... Chopper-ish bike... Love it!!!!

I wonder why SE didn't make the DB or Mini Ripper, etc. with a euro BB??? Most little bikes went with that. If there's one frame (besides and Ames) I wish I had was a euro BB Gt pro... Cool bike.

Anyway, great on the SE stuff, keep it coming. I'm learning as I go. LOL! tongue.gif
John Zook
QUOTE (Elvis @ Feb 1 2008, 04:20 PM) *
Best options, in order of best:

- Take it to phone
- Take it to Email
- Take it to PM
- Take it to the Negative forum

Worst option:

- Keep it here

You guys are how old?

thank you Elvis.. I couldn't agree more.... better yet drop it... By the way are you coming to blue springs in may???
splinter
wow! What time of the month is it.
TeamRob
Thanks Brian. I guess I will have to work a deal to get the BD3 or DB4 form my friend. He got it a few weeks ago as a Mini Ripper. It does not have a serial number but the guy he got it form said it was the first Gen MR...?

Now for the other catch to let me know what I am in for is: What kind of fork? Race Inc aluminum or Landing Gear light (I think too new). I think I can do some trading to get it but want to make sure I can complete it. Every bike I get form personal friends I like to complete a correct restore. Are decals next to impossible to find?

Also I want to identify before buying or trading. What should the length of the seatpost mast be vs. BDIII and the DBIV?
Elvis
QUOTE (John Zook @ Feb 1 2008, 11:44 AM) *
thank you Elvis.. I couldn't agree more.... better yet drop it... By the way are you coming to blue springs in may???


It kinda' depends on the job situation. As an unemployed person, oh hell yeah. Otherwise, who's to say? (Don't tell anyone I'm going to OKC tamale to see what's going on at the Guthrie race.

QUOTE (TeamRob @ Feb 1 2008, 09:55 PM) *
Thanks Brian. I guess I will have to work a deal to get the BD3 or DB4 form my friend. He got it a few weeks ago as a Mini Ripper. It does not have a serial number but the guy he got it form said it was the first Gen MR...?

Now for the other catch to let me know what I am in for is: What kind of fork? Race Inc aluminum or Landing Gear light (I think too new). I think I can do some trading to get it but want to make sure I can complete it. Every bike I get form personal friends I like to complete a correct restore. Are decals next to impossible to find?

Also I want to identify before buying or trading. What should the length of the seatpost mast be vs. BDIII and the DBIV?


If Wood-E didn't build it, I wouldn't run an aluminum fork. Call me crazy, but that's not a material for mortals to weld.

My sponsor compels me to add: Supercross fork.
TeamRob
Thanks Elvis..

Like I said. I have never owned an SE items. I have a lot of unique items but when there seems to be a ton of high end (pricey) SE frames and so many cracked ones, fixed ones, repainted or stripped and ready for paint" I tend to stay away. There are too many variables in price and condition. I am not going to lay out $1500 for a frame and fork setup then discover something was wrong down the road. When I know the bikes origin and history (like the two I currently know of) it/they become a lot more appealing. When one also has orginal paint and no repair, it becomes even more appealing. I have enough bikes here to keep my knowledge base up with already.

Now that I know about two frames out there that are original, now I want more info. I will read, I will ask and I will do it right if I do it, or it is not worth doing!
BRIAN HAYS
Rob, Cycle Pro forks or Race Inc leading edge forks or Cooks Bros forks would be correct for a BD3 or DB4. Notice the JU6/BD3 add has both bikes with Cooks forks.

As far as the seat tube length difference, I'm still waiying on a reply on that one. I'll let you know. BD3 decals are IMPOSSIBLE to find. The DB4's are very simple die cuts to reproduce. Let me know if I can help.
B. Apold
QUOTE (BRIAN HAYS @ Feb 2 2008, 03:39 PM) *
Rob, Cycle Pro forks or Race Inc leading edge forks or Cooks Bros forks would be correct for a BD3 or DB4. Notice the JU6/BD3 add has both bikes with Cooks forks.

As far as the seat tube length difference, I'm still waiying on a reply on that one. I'll let you know. BD3 decals are IMPOSSIBLE to find. The DB4's are very simple die cuts to reproduce. Let me know if I can help.


cycle pro, Race and CBR were all the same? Man I'm learning allot here... Cool!

I can imagine the DB3 decals are a toughy.
BRIAN HAYS
No, the Cycle Pro, Race Inc and Cooks forks are ALL DIFFERENT, but SE used them all between 78-81 until they invented the Landing Gear.
TeamRob
Brian,

You will know this: Did Cycle Pro forks come in Aluminum very early on? I thougth I saw someone asking but now that I am thinking about it I don't hear of many being broken. I might have a set of CBR forks here to use then. But the last official set I had you bought almost 2 years ago with the frame. I did not notce and differences in the CBR forks ever.

Another question now - is there a tube diameter dfference or plating difference (I know of the Nickel ones) on the early CBR forks?

What is correct on my Foiler for forks? I have collected all the parts I need to build that one too except a fork and a set of decals.

Now back to the other subject. What colors? I want to says the one DB-VI is brown with blue headtube decals and one is burnished without any decals.
Steve Bourke
QUOTE (BRIAN HAYS @ Feb 2 2008, 07:58 AM) *
No, the Cycle Pro, Race Inc and Cooks forks are ALL DIFFERENT, but SE used them all between 78-81 until they invented the Landing Gear.

cycle pro and race inc are very close. the only diffrence is the top of the drop out.
foilers would have cycle pro.

i think the only "early" aluminum forks were G-BOY and PRO FAB. depending on condition $400-600 on ebay
TeamRob
Well I have the G Boy fork already. I will just wait to find a Cycle Pro fork. What are the differences in the dropouts? I just passed on a NOS in the bag Race Inc fork last weekend.
B. Apold
QUOTE (BRIAN HAYS @ Feb 2 2008, 03:58 PM) *
No, the Cycle Pro, Race Inc and Cooks forks are ALL DIFFERENT, but SE used them all between 78-81 until they invented the Landing Gear.


Oh I see! Sorry I misread. I was going to say... Cool info here.

Here's my friends JU-6. Don't say a word about his hand jesture, he was trying to be funny when my Mommy took photo..


Steve Bourke

the blue ones are cyclepro and the white ones are race inc.
look at the top of the drop outs. the race are thinner/sleeker and down by the axle it's rounded and the cycle pro are pointed.
BRIAN HAYS
Also on the Race Inc / Cycle Pro fork differences, the "U" bend at the top where the forks connect to the steerer tube is different between the two.

Rob, your Foiler would be correct with Cycle Pro forks. As far as differences between the Cooks plating and stuff, I have no clue.

Cycle Pro never made an alloy fork.
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