I'm learning to manual again after 20 years off. The other night I got a good 4 parking spaces - a couple of times after maybe 2 hours of practice.

I took a lot of the suggestions from people on here and all of it helped. In fact, I'm headed out right now to work on it some more.

I think practice, practice, practice - is the key for finding and keeping that balance point.

Good luck,
Mike

So is there an initial "yank" that takes place to get the front end off the ground???

Sorry T1. I meant to mention that I did a search so as not to bug people about an already covered topic. I think the posts must be too old and no longer available. I can't find much anymore. Did read something about using a wall while standing still for balance. May try that.

for me there is an initial jerk of the bars to get the front wheel up , after im already leaning back in position. i usually start with knees bent and leaning my weight back , jerk the handlebars just like doing a small "pop a wheelie" and then i pump my legs straight to force the back wheel under me a bit further and get my center of gravity.

i dont use brakes , ill try to if im with no choice going to slide out but im not so good at feathering so it usually results in the front wheel coming down hard.

all of my control while rolling comes from my legs in which mostly are slightly bent. if the front wheel feels like its going to go down i push my legs straight in a slight jerk motion which pushes the back wheel further under me and brings the front wheel back up (if i really need to sometimes ill bend at the elbows and hug the handlebars closer to my chest just for a second) , and if i feel like im too high and might flip back i bend my knees with a quick motion to lessen the lean backwards.

after a while of doing them , you will need alot less of leg pumping and get a steady lean both arms and legs stiff , definetly alot more muscle is used in the beginning of learning manuals till you naturally smooth it out from practice.

i keep my seat height at knee level and pinch it between my knees for a quick barspin as im letting the front wheel back down. (ending the manual a bit early while i still have good control) and if i manage to catch the bars and still have a desent height on the front wheel ill turn it into a bunny hop exit.

looks pretty smooth especially if you pull it off on and off of a curb. i practiced bunny hop to manual back and forth with flat start manual from the first day and i think it helped alot. as i started to learn them both at the same time.

a good idea also to feelout the center of gravity is learn to ride wheelies while pedaling in the standing position , and let the front wheel come up high enough where you can stop pedaling and manual for a few feet , then pedal again before the front wheel gets too heavy. like riding a wheelie with pauses in pedaling when the front wheel is high enough to allow you to do that.

i was able to ride a SLOW standing wheelie a good 50 feet before i ever even tried a manual and im sure that also helped a bit in learning.

i probablly babbled , sorry i just woke up.

I gotta save this post somewhere and have it for copy and paste later.

Parking lots lines are your best friend for learning. Set goals, like manual 3 parking lot lines and increase as progression allows.

Concentrate on something lets say 50 ft away from you when your manualing. Concentrating on something 10 ft away will get you 10 ft manuals. Once you start getting close to what your concentrating on, shift your eyes to something else and keep going.

Just a slight pull while leaning back is probally the best way to start your manual. It's mostly all in your legs, front end starts to drop, push with your legs, front end starts rising up too much, suck up your legs. Only time you should use your arms is when your really trying to save a manual from dropping.

Learning on the streets 1st will help alot with manualing rollers, learn on the streets, and it will become 2nd nature on tracks through rythems, whoops, over jumps, ect ect.

Feathering your brakes will also help with looping out, my finger on my brake lever is my best friend sometimes.

For me there is no jerking motion, if I'm manualing off of flat ground then I try to lean back and lift the front end smoothly, and if I'm bunnyhopping onto an obstacle then the front end's already up from the bunnyhop so I just keep it up.

Thanks you guys. I'm going to start practicing tonight (and oftern as I can from there). I really appreciate the tips.

Oh dear LORD my ***!!! I just got the front end off the ground, and continued to do so untill I drove myself backwards into the pavement. No time to even hope off. YEEEOCH. Think I'll give my tailbone some R&R before I try this again.

OUCH !

i just realised that you said you are riding a mongoose californian. if it old school thats a pretty light bike (i know nothing about new gooses) , light bikes always tend to loop out quickly with little warning.

another thing i forgot to mention and havent seen mentioned in this thread is keep your pedals level. thats very important

you might want to practice feathering your brakes ( a few light squeeze taps ) or even practice hopping off the pedals and planting your feet on the ground. kind of like when people jump over the handlebars to kill the fear of dumping foward on hang fives.

if you havent already , now would be a good time to go buy some protective gear as well. an elbow hitting the pavement or even the back of your head could leave a mark

Manualing is basically just a coaster wheelie. No pedaling!

Keith,

When you start to loop out hit your brakes! You should keep a finger on the brake lever at all times just in case!! It sucks to loop out; I bet everybody's done that at least once.

When I first started manualing, I used the lines on a parking lot. Parking lots are good because they're nice and flat, which makes it easier to learn where your balance point is. You can use the lines as a refernce point and guage your progress.

I think if you can ride wheelies, you'll be able to manual better because you already understand how to distribute your weight around the bike to keep the front end up. It really isn't too different from riding wheelies, except that when the front end starts to fall you don't pedal to drive the back wheel back underneath you to push the front wheel back up.

Update 10:53 CST: My butt really hurts.

I was thinking about practicing wheelies and manuals on grass. Three-fold reason. 1) Grass will "slow" everything down a bit so that the wheel won't loop out so quickly, and I might be able to get a better feel for things. 2) Confidence since if I fall it won't hurt so much. 3) If I fall it won't hurt so much. Hmmmmmm?

Okay I did not read this whole thread but I have a suggestion that may or may not have been covered before.

I have found that it helps in learning to manual by riding off of a smoot curb or small dropoff, so that as you are leaning back to set for the manual the back end gently dropps away. basically you ride off the drop and hold the front end level with the ground to begin with until you get the feal for what the bike is doing underneath you. It also helps you find the balance point and hopefully you will not loop out to quickly and end up on you *** again.

Most of all it just takes practice and time to know what your bike will do.

I would not do it on grass as it is not smooth enough, that is a key. The surface you are on has to be smooth so that you feel what the bike is doing not what the surface is making it do.

[ September 12, 2005, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: HRPdesigns ]

i have to agree that learning on the grass is not a good idea. just put on some extra clothing , maybe some sweatpants under your jeans for a little padding and wear elbow pads , gloves , and maybe helmet if you are falling alot.

if you are really that intimidated by the pavement you could get some large cardboard refrigerator boxes and cut them open , ducktape the seams together like an old breakdancing pad , lol i dunno

Dang. Thought I was on to something there. OK, pavement it is.

And I read somewhere (this post or my other one) where a guy would only keep his front tire about 8" off the ground during a manual. This makes some good sense to me. I think I was trying to get the front wheel too high, and thus getting way too close to the "no return" zone. Think maybe I need to use more weight shift toward the back with stretched out arms and bent knees, on order to lift up a bit, as opposed to standing up (legs more straight) in an effort to keep the front wheel up. Make sense? OK, I've bugged you guys enough. Thanks for all the input and advice. In the coming months, I'll either post pics of a solid manual or my hospital bill.

On a flat manual keep the front end about 8-12" off the ground. The only time you manual higher is when you are trying to get your front end over an obsticle. Remember, the higher the front end the less time and distance you have to recover when the bike goes to loop out.

If only I had asked all this before ejecting yesterday. Still feeling the pain in my rump.

I've been making progress just riding around. My advice (while I'm still learning) is you need good speed to pull it off. If you go to slow you will habitually pull up with you arms. A nice medium speed is good. If your getting it your theighs should be sore afterwords. Good luck

ever since i read this ive been trying to manual at only 8 inches off the ground and i cant get further than about 2 parking spaces. i also tend to lean left or right alot more at lower height. im usually a good 16 inches off the ground when i manual and use alot of legs for balance. being so low now is alot harder for me , seems like i have to lean back alot further with my body. its also feels too hard to pinch my seat for a barspin. i guess im the oddball rider. i pretty much ride alone and try to invent tricks for my own fun , but i guess some of the standard moves ive learned wrong ?

It's all about finding the balancing point of your bike. It will change from bike to bike depending on wheelbase, how high your bars are, how laid back they are and believe it or not, air pressure makes a difference. I've folded my tire over manualing on a deck at a skatepark because of the underinflation. And definitely feather your brakes! It will kill your speed but it's better than the alternative. And when manualing over a jump or through a rhythm section, use your legs, that's where the speed comes from.

This is great, so many people learning to manual. I've challanged myself to work at it all winter so I will be able to manual the track next year. I had a great feeling two weeks ago. My race bike was having crank issues and I told a friend we would go to the track to practice. My only alternative was my Hutch expert racer. This bike is small and light as a feather. After a couple trips around the track, I was blasting throught the rythm section and before I knew what happened, I had the bike straight up on the rear wheel. You could have drawn a line straight through the front and rear axle, perpendicular to the ground. The feeling was the best in the world. This happened by accident, but I'm looking forward to practicing all winter so I can do it on demand next season.

I've also picked up a 2002 freeagent Hellcat to practice on this winter. It's a good 15 lbs heavier then my race bike, so I figure if I can manual and bunny hop the Hellcat, I'll be unstopable on my race bike.

Sorry to tag along late but I don't think anyone mentioned this and it made the biggest difference when I was learning manuals (mind you I haven't done them through rythm sections, but I have over and through speed bumps) : It's all about the eyes, you have to look to the distance, not just at where you want to manual to because your wheel will drop with your eyes, but at a constant distance. Your eyes determine where your head is and therefore where your body is. I've learnt to do manuals no brakes, (yeah I'm one of those guys) I just jump off the back when I feel a loop out coming on. Hope this helps. Chur.

I went to the Redline east finals last weekend and Bubba Harris manualed the whole track at Emerald Farms.

Sick stuff.

I came out of the gate at the local track here in Vegas next to Derek Betcher and he manualed the whole first straight into the turn. It was an absolute amazing feat to watch up close. I try all day to manual, my wife says I look like a geek who can't wheelie. I am constantly looping out and running behind the bike. I need to get a half link for my chain so I can pull the tire in a little more so I don't have to jerk as hard to get the front up. The air pressure does make a difference. I aired my tires up rock hard to carry my 250+lb brother in law and with my 135lb frame, I can tell a total handling difference. Keep practicing, I keep telling myself there is still hope!

Hey MyGJS, don't give up on it......if you keep practicing, it will come around. I find that I manual better on a slight down slope and I also try to find a medium speed. My longest is about 6 parking spaces and that felt pretty good. Smooth asphalt makes it easier too.

http://www.joeythebomb.com/videos/Joey%20Manual.mpg

Fun one to watch.

That is friggin sweet.

Thanks guys for all your helpfull hints.

Is Joey reqally manualling there, or rather wheelie-ing? He's cranking all the way over those whoops. Damn impressive either way. I thought manualling was no pedaling??

Great advice from Dr. Smooth!

I once saw Mario Soto manual the entire track at Orange. He's take a few micro pedals (just a quick bit of pressure on the front pedal) now and then to keep his speed. That was amazing. He'd also manual-to-bump-jump some big doubles and triples.

And yes, manualling is done without peddling.

Power manualling is pedaling over a jump with the front end up.

Manualling is no pedaling while carrying the front end over a jump.

Pull manualling is pulling up prior to the jump and carrying the front end over it.

Come on LeadSled! "Power manualling" is a wheelie. "Pull Manualling" is, in fact, just manualling, and it's usually the best way to manual an obstacle.

I'm guessing the term "manual" (it came about during my absence from BMX, so I'm not sure) refers to something being done "by hand", that is, without power. Hence, no pedaling.

Whatever you call it, it's all cool!

LMAO, go say "can you wheelie that jump" at the track and see what kind of looks you get.

Pull manual and a manual are two different things. Say you have a double and you manual it. You ride up the face of the double and then lift the front tire and carry it over the back of the double. In a pull manual you lift the front before the face and carry it all the way over the jump to the backside. I.E. the pull in pull manual is pulling up prior to the obstical.


Manualling was a skateboard term the kids picked up on and it seems to have over wrote "speedjump" as us old fogies used to call it.

^ What he said regarding where the word "manual" came from.

That track in the video looks fun! Do people use that wallride in races?

Okay Leadsled, okay.

But, I'll say this - I'll pull manual, power manual, or plain ol' manual most obstacles on a track (given that it's faster than jumping)... at speed, so I don't care about the looks I get from the hodads that can't do it! Ha! So take that!

And I'll add this, my skills are so incredibly advanced that I broke both my arms in 2002 when I tried to pull manual to bump-jump (the last two) triples at Orange. That's right - TWO broken arms. Beat that!

I don't know. I did it on the first jump at Rockford this year and didn't break anything. I suck.

Pull manual to bump jump a triple? Meaning, your front wheel never touched the jump until the landing?

Not bad!

[ September 28, 2005, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Infamous ]