Need some help from the bros here!

This frame and fork combo came out of a tomato farmer's barn. He said around 20 years ago or so, he bought some bikes from a resort that was going out of business near Santa Cruz, CA. Apparently, the resort liked to keep some bikes on hand for the customers to use during their stay.

It doesn't seem to have a serial number anywhere.

I know this is THE place to come to for a possible frame ID... Extra credit points for a fork ID!!!

Thanks in advance!

FMF, Early RedLine forks.
Nice find!

No hole No FMF. Early Race Inc very rad!

I'd say early Race Inc as well. I have one that's
blue anno just like it with no serial #, no brake bridge, FMF style dropouts, no hole in head tube gusset. Mine looks to have original stickers that are Race Inc with a FMF head tube sticker. It was also found in a Barn, but in near by Monterey County.

I'm diggin' those 1st gen Redline forks!

Yep race inc frame with redline forks attached!

Nice find....those forks are sweet!

I'll be the odd ball - Laguna???

yea, early Race Inc. Had one duplicate to that. Good find

here's one in blue with its decals:

Ditto...Early Race Inc.

Long lug behind the seatmast and no hole in the gusset.

Dan is right, but a drill and dremel will make it an FMF! Shudder to think!

Nice, this must be the month for early Race Inc, Cycle Pro Spoiler/Foiler, finds. I think this is the 3rd or 4th in a 2 week period.

No brake bridge, must have been made the day after FMF closed up shop. Very cool

Thanks everyone, for your BMX expertise and your kind words! Stopping by here is like walking into an old LBS and finding all of you hanging out there!

Dunphy1 & Todzilla, you have some KILLER frames... love that anno. blue & gold!!!

Mucho Mahalos!

Also, love the Moon Eyes avatar!

Nice find I love hearing about old bikes found in barns! Anyone know if any Race Inc. were made w/long seat stay gusset AND a brake bridge w/diamond cut dropouts ? The frame I have is identical to this one but w/a brake bridge. I have been trying to determine if the frame I have is a Race Inc. or Cycle Pro.

1az, Every single combo is an option from Mr Bastian. I have seen the exact frame you describe. The original pic is a 1976 or 77 Race Inc with first gen Redline forks. Very cool.

great info guys. I agree early Race Inc.

Hey brian, do you recall the time frame of the foiler, when was it produced. The reason I ask is because in1980 I bought a new Race Inc polished frame set. It had the later square style drops with a serial number and a short seat stay gusset. In late 81 I bought, what at the time came from the factory stickered Race Inc that I sold to you . You remember that huge wart lug I had welded on behind the BB because it was cracked like 3 times. That frame was for sure later than the serial numbered frame. I guess I was thinking that foilers were like the same era as the early Race Inc frame like we see in this thread butmaybe I am wrong in thinking that. Could it be that the foiler era was roughly 80-82

By the way, I really wan't that blue Bastian special you have listed right now. Any chance you would hold it for me,,,,lol maybe you wan't to trade for a different rare frame and fork combo?

OK here's one for the experts. I have pics of a frame I took at a swap meet a little over a year ago. I didn't have the money to buy it. It looks to be early Race inc but here is the deal. It was red anodized, Round tube welded brake bridge welded seam on the bottom of the chain-stay standoff and the diamond shape rear dropouts. Also the faded red anodizing clearly revealed the outlines of the original frame stickers. but the sticker outlines were clearly from an FMF sticker set.

what a lot of people don't realize about frame production that came out of Bill Bastian's shop was that the FMF frame was not an exclusive design to FMF. Plus max production output was the name of the game. So a few frames leaving the factory minus "oval holes" in the frame gusset so production quotas could be met was not outside the realm of possibilities there was a lot of robbing of Peter to pay Paul going on in those days.

My opinion is that there are gray areas when it comes to some of these old frames and this is a prime example of that. but there are still accepted norms on what it takes to Identify a genuine FMF frame. But I think variations did manage slip through the cracks. Take a look at the pics and draw your own conclusions.









Is my logic flawed here? If so why? Hey Code Blue! Chime in on this will you please?

Sod,

Point well taken. I am thinking that was stickered as FMF.

How are you feeling?

Regards, Curt

sod, I think your probably right. If it happened to the Race Inc ?foiler why not the other frames in the same shop. Look at the PK's labeled race Inc,,,interesting

Keep in mind Sod that the FMF was the bike to have in a lot of neighborhoods. Mine included. It wouldn't be that hard to sticker up your Race Inc with FMF decals back in the day. Kids being kids the stickers count more than the frame sometimes. Point taken about Bastian's production techniques.

Dan and Ipodmaster,

Good points as well. Since you (Dan) mentioned about FMF as the bike to have, I recall that in 1978 when I bought my Cycle Pro Spoiler, first thing I did was lose the CP stickers and install an FMF headtube. Funny thing is the BMX crowd (of the day) knew it was a fake. As a result I rebadge it back with Cycle Pro stickers (not wanting to be known as a fraud, a lesson that stuck!) and remains that way to this day. (Pictures somewhere on the site)

I am constantly amazed at the varied and different information of these frames (and others) that is displayed on this site. An accurate history would be a task indeed.

Why don't we call the Mythbusters to help settle this matter? Heck, call Columbo, Sherlock & an FBI profiler for backup while we're at it

Sod, I recently heard about your miscue and hope your doing well. Thanks for putting up those pics too!

Dan & others bring up a good point about the practice of placing stickers on other bikes, no doubt this was practiced to some degree.

I'm not gonna be dogmatic about my opinion, I'll just throw out a FEW of many ideas for consideration....

No doubt there were some that replaced stickers that were commonly available like headtube styled stickers, but were FMF Team Replica downtube stickers readily & easily available during that time?

Was the price difference between the 3 labels so great that a regular kid had to settle for buying the percieved 'inferior brand' Race Inc or Laguna (coupled with the added expense & hassle of locating & purchasing stickers & possibly waiting a week or 2 for shipping to convert to his frame to a FMF?) but could not afford the FMF frame in the first place????

Given Bastian tendencies to borrow from one pocket to fill the needs of another, is it not plausible to consider it a remote possibility that B.B. might have restickered a Race Inc style frame as a FMF to help fill a shipping order/need?

Or that he may have run out of holed gussets & used Race Inc style gussetts to fill a need in a pinch?

Hope this helps the discussion.............

[ July 22, 2007, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: Code Blue ]