How were the cages on Hutch Beartrap Pedals finished? I see alot of bikes with really shiney cages.I also see alot of dull finish cages.Which one is "correct" for the race pedal(not freestyle)? How were they sold new?

Usually polished, but I have seen some originals unpolished. Some originals came color anodized too.

I just finished making a batch of repro PRO and MINI size cages, with 100% identical geometry to the originals. I will be selling them polished, but also unpolished for the guys who are the DIY polishers, or who want to anodize them or gold/chrome plate them.

Hey John - are you going to mark them in some way some the dodgy buggers who might re-sell them as original can't?

Andy, great question.

The cages are not marked with words, but they are "marked". Original cages were die-stamped. The die-stamp itself allows for mass-production, but is expensive. Nobody in the repro world is going to invest the money in a die-stamp to make repros because they would never make enough money to cover the cost of the die.

Therefore, the method of making them is slightly different now, and gives telltale signs to identify them as repros. The difference is the edge of the material (the thickness). If you look at the edge of a die-stamped cage, the first half of the thickness is smooth, and the other half is rough. The die cuts the first half, and tears the second half.

My repros are cut on a CNC waterjet, which gives a consistant rough surface finish across the entire width of the material thickness. They could also be cut with laser nowadays too. Both processes would give a similar consistant finish. CNC water and laser technology did not exist in the early 1980's, so originals would never have that appearence.

When I list them on the Bay, I will clarify that in a shortened version for all to know.

Reading that was like taking waterjet 101. You know your stuff John. Great job

OK - I can see a few folks out there passing these off though.

Maybe. There's bound to be dishonest people somewhere in this sport.

Personally I'd be more worried about others making waterjet copies that are not accurately made to the originals. Some of the repro decals out there are pretty poor quality, which has no credible value whatsoever IMO. If there's going to be repros, I believe they should be made as close to originals as possible, but with some verifiable way to differentiate them from originals. And that's what I have done.

Sorry for redirecting your thread, smokin steve.

i agree w/A.D.-- unless it comes witha little info card for each set sold - LOL - not everyone will know that or have read this, or whats to say after they are ridden a bit and worn - not passed off as near mint og

i'm sorry if it bothers/upsets you -- but og sets are still out there to be had, why don't you just wait for a set to surface .... i mean from what i have experienced in the 7/8 yrs of doing this is newer guys always come in and immediately what to repro something off, totally missing the point of what "ViNtAgE CoLLeCtiNg" is about -- sure soft goods like decals (you can't restore used decals, for most cases) but hardware survives the ages and/or can be rapired or restored - we collect what was, not what can be made to look like .... eventually those same new guys live and learn, and many even regret the fact they contributed to yet another stain on the hobby.

but i'm not attacking, just reflecting .... though i'm sure it will still be taken as such - just me sayin is all

back to the og question - i only experienced them in high polish - the colored were only offered colors on the flat tooth'd f/s cages (they did however offer powdercoated bodies on the race style in later yrs)

I needed the mini cages for my LiL Holeshot, which is what precipitated the cages being made. I always try to find originals first. And I consider pedal cages to be just as perishable as decals, pad sets, grips, and tires. We just haven't gotten to the point of someone repro'ing grips and tires...yet.

Look at it this way, slap on my less-expensive cages, a set of $5.99 A'me's and some rainbow labels and you can actually ride your show bike, not just look at it. I'd say that's an enhancement to the sport.

The "stain" you are referring to was the guy walking around at the show selling $20 knock-off Hutch seat clamps.

"...is newer guys always come in..."

Thanks, a lot of people tell me I look younger than my age, but I really am 37.

i meant 'newer guys' to the hobby - i don't reflect the appearence of the 39 yrs i have lived either


and for what its worth i ride my bikes with bubble font ames and blue/grey or yellow labels (not to mention the spares to fall back on when they should needed) --- if you don't believe me ask the guys that have ridden them on my builds as well

Hey so anno cages were not on Pro pedals too?
I thought they were.

ps. don't let the membership number fool ya -- my og number was 1379 in '02

I'd like to have a set of Hutch pedals on one of my Hutch riders but I'm scared about spiking myself - lol

not the race version --- just the f/s --- if you've seen them recently its people that had them anno'd

I know what you meant.

Like I said, when I list them I will give a brief explanation of the differences.

And I ride all mine too, lovin' every minute of it when I do.

you may come across black w/the sharp teeth, maybe - but if i remember right those were actually for the Titron version pedals before the Hutch stamped body models --- and they are pretty rare if og

Yes, I have a set of those on my black XL 24. VERY sharp.

...uh yeah - 'NOS Gold Hutch Pro pedals' - yeah right!

John - got a pic of your Xl24?

This bike was at Rockford last year. It doesn't look this dusty in person, but it is in the laundry room. I guess I better do some dusting. It was built by CB.

That's 100% dust. The bike is immaculate show condition.

those pedal cages aren't og ....

I never said they were, and I also did not build the bike. CB did. It's exactly the way I bought it from him. I guess "older" collectors can make repro cages though?

A Chris Baron bulit Xl24 - I bet it's sweet!

Show us more!

but after a while they wear they're welcome too - LOL


how many repro'ers (of hard goods) are still showin' face ?

or will still admit they were glad they did ?

Dr., go look at the PM I just sent you.

Andy, give me a few minutes and I will pull it out and take some pics....

ANDY -- pictures don't always tell the whole story. strategic poses and photoshop can work wonders (ain't you into graphic design ? you should know better)

read my response .....

I know - I can spot a Huffy dressed up as Liz Hurely - lol

This is the bike I raced at Rockford in 2005 rather than put it in the show. Racing a race bike is as authentic as you get.

Very cool - I'm in the process of updating mine - I ride it.

very nice...I hope my XL24 will bling that nice some day.

Howdy all (wuzzup Dr. F long time no talk)...I figured i better chime in here since those black cages on John's XL24 were made by me several years back. I had a limited run of sharp tooth Titron cages made (maybe 12 sets if I remember correctly) from original spec drawings because I needed them to restore several sets of pedals. Anywho...I did sell a few sets to select individuals like CB but I don't recall if they were anodized when I sold them because I did have a few sets ano'd black as well.

The cages were made using a waterjet which John could probably attest to now that he has them in his posession and knows how to tell the difference. My intentions were good at the time but I know the cages have been passed off as NOS after trading hands a few times and that is unavoidable. Do I regret having them made...yeah, not really, because there are not any NOS sharp tooth cages available out there and I didn't really see any other way to complete the work I was doing. Hopefully my efforts do not cause too much grief for anyone down the line.

Cheers,
Alan

Alan, well-said. Those cages are perfect on this build, and I would rather have these than nothing at all (or even NOS standard Pro cages for that matter). Thank you for making them!

John,

If you're going to reproduce the cages, why not stamp a symbol into them for clear identification? Instead of a circle punched out on the end, make 1 square or have a small "R" cut through it.

More importantly, it was nice to meet you this weekend.

Hmmm, good suggestion. Would stamping an "R" on the inside be satisfactory? (The parts are already waterjet and some are roll-formed). I do not have a problem with that as long as I can get a stamp in there. If that is reasonble common-ground, I am fine with that.

Thank you. It was my pleasure to meet you as well.

i think that would be pretty responsible of you and a very considerate thing to do .....

those who considerate it okay to travel that route, then thats they're decision .... and those that wish to search for authenticity can also feel comfortable in they're search - thats what its about - see how something as small as a stamp can make things all the more respectable

thanks

Yeah a stamp on the inside would solve the problem. Can they be stamped before they get rolled? Cna you engrave an "R" with the water jet onto the insides of them?

I'm all for it, for the simple reason that lets face it, Those cages are aluminum. They get ****ed up really easily. Why not have some repro cages to go mess around with? It makes perfect sense to me. I see those cages as expendable items like John stated.
John, I get wait to get a few pairs for my pedals, in fact, now that 'll be able to use them, I'll actually keep my pedals!

Stamping a "R" on the inside solves most problems, but it would be perfect if it was done in a way where someone couldn't polish out the "R" to circumvent purpose. Deep stamp if not all the way through so it becomes a permanent marking.

I will stamp each cage with an "R". Any attempt to polish it out will result in a divot.

John...i think you are doing right by stamping them now let's see some close-up pics of those cages!

AM

unrelated side note...I didn't realize it until just now but I have been a member here for nearly 5 years and just completed my 501st post.

Dr. F...you've had what...5 different member numbers and posted a combined 25,000 times?

Hope all is well on the East side!

John instead of making the holes around the cages, could they be done with stars. That's how Hutch shoulda done em anyway!!

hmmm, Retro idea?

Crupi had C P stamed on them. I think the "R" stamp somewhere is a good idea.

That would have been so over the top if Hutchins put stars instead of circles!

The JP cages have logos on em too.

I would have thought Western 'H's drilled out would have been more appropriate for Hutch cages.
Seems logical.

ALAN Mc "Dr. F...you've had what...5 different member numbers and posted a combined 25,000 times?"

Ha - actually A-Mc - i always have the Wisecrack3000 runnin', even when i'm away on business (or play, mostly play) i wouldn'tbe me if i didn't ....

Glad to see you chime in (its been a minute) hope the family is doing well ..... I've been busy myself - due Oct., so i'll be joining the 2nd gen.VBMXers plus site soon - see ya there - lol

The good Dr. ain't just been playin' with bikes huh? GOOD MAN! Congrats on the offspring announcement and we'll keep a chair open for you over at the 2nd Generation club! Best wishes!