I must walk a fine line here, due to a recent personal experience with repops.
I like Tim revel the old, original or vintage things from my past and generations before my time. I find myself searching every place I know of for the old items (anything) that remain classic today. The history behind such things give mystique to what we understand as classic. Such things as "dive bars" in places like Bandara, Tx. or a 1969 SS Chevelle and always the old BMX things we all share in banter through this site.
Repops give us a way to bring something nearly lost to time back for future generations, but serious descreation needs to be exercised when thinking about restoration. Quality and Copywrite's being the first and foremost.

i agree tim. BUT, i think affordable repops might help inspire future enthusiasts.

I'm not sure what type of repops you are referring but I have personal experience with the Schwinn Stingray stuff.
A friend put out ads and acquired immense piles of old Schwinn's right before it was Chic. (early 90s)
We used the extra stuff to build lowrider bikes.

Then they repopped all the old Schwinn's like the Grey Ghost, Orange Krate, Pea Picker, etc.

And even though Schwinn claimed all of that stuff was made by the same processes it was NOT near the quality of the original stuff. And not near as "skin tingling" to be near.

I noticed they've pretty much disappeared from the mall sporting good's stores in the past year.

Just can't reinvent those era's because alas it never was about the material parts. It was about the human excitement connected to it.

I've always been somewhat on the fence. There's so much bad stuff out there. I wouldn't bother with %99 of it. But suppose you have a frame that you want as close to how it used to be as possible.
But wait, NOS decals simply don't exist, or if you found them the price would be astronimical. I think it's ok to cut that corner. I would never attempt to pass them off as real though.

As for repopping hardware, I just can't quite get my arms around it. Even 'newschool' updates of the older classics sort of rubs me the wrong way. There are exceptions though. That handmade GT Block stem on that GT Show comes to mind. That thing is art.

As I said, I sorta go back and forth on it. Nothing can compare to the history and myths that surround the actual goods. They are like magic to me. Having to settle for reproduction occasionally is just that. Settling...

steef and i were around for that late night coversation at rockford. was wondering if you ever pursued it. la or hickville?
congrats!

Well I dont know what to think about this. I do like history also. How ever the prevailing attitude here to me seems to be one of an overall intolerance. I myself, like Tim love to see how things are made etc. and all the intricacies that are involved with certain passions that I have bmx being one of them. It says to me that it is also a type of greed to see people who want to call something all to there own. Is that a bad thing no I dont think so. We have this inane quality being human to want to be unique but part of a group as well. Thats where this can get touchy. Im for replicas that are marked accordingly. Im not for people looking to reproduce something for a quick buck.

I collect things from my child hood and from today. However I dont dwell on relics. I embrace tommorow and the cool things yet to come. I grew up in a new england town with old farm houses, victorians etc. Id never want one old, drafty, and built with yesterday in mind. I have no yearning for that.

Tasteful repos all the way.

My wife worked for a local history museum in Oregon. One of the exhibits was about crime and punishment in the 1800s. One of the contributions came from the owner of the remains of an original jail house, constructed from heavy hand carved timbers.
A few of the timbers were rotten beyond repair, so local craftmen came in and replicated them with freshly cut wood.
The log jail currently resides in the museum as a centerpiece, and as a neat reminder of the past.

I view certain repops in this light. There are probably way more frames and forks out there than NOS stickers.
I think repop stickers are a better alternative to no stickers, wrong-year stickers, or crummy home made stickers.
My other exception is tires. I will not ride my bikes with vintage tires for many reasons. I would love to ride on repops of snakebellies or comp IIs.

Since rediscovering this hobby, I have come to the conclusion that all other parts should probably not be reproduced.

I've found old tires get hard in weird places and they just feel out of round. yuck.

quality NOS decals are awesome. I'd not have wanted to redo 3 recent bikes without em. and I can tell you I was giddy as a leetle girl when I opened the package to see those beautiful repop decals.

If something has to be properly reproduced like barn timbers that is great. I was at the King Tut exhibit in Chicago this fall. There were a number of beautiful artifacts. Absolutely breathtaking. And if you looked closely you could see where certain wood parts were reconstructed to help the whole visual presentation, or some stone items reglued. Standing in the presence of such craftsmanship from 3-5000 years ago completely overwhelmed any anal retentive compulsion that the thing had no credence since it was slightly fixed. There were some $3000-$10000 dollar repop artifacts in the gift shop that were really rather attractive but they didn't have that human element of antiquity and held my interest but a split second.

On the Schwinn thing. After the excitement wore off I gladly gave away any of those bikes I kept. Sold the last one at a garage sale this summer for $35. Had nice vintage cranks, fenders, pedals, ape hangers. It felt good to watch an excited recipient walk away like he just bagged the Christmas goose!

Tim, I think you have finally hit it this time. The feeling you're talking about and not getting that same feeling with repops sums it up beautifully.

[ January 24, 2007, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: BRIAN HAYS ]

PS-quality NOS decals was a joke by the way. These ebay retards and their NOS decals!
Bill's repops are the BEST (that's my shameless suckup)

I am of both minds. I love looking at "things" from the past - bikes, cars, motorcyles. My house is from 1922 aand I loved restoring it. I no longer feel the need to own old things past my home.

Repop do not bother me so long as they are "marked" as such. I'd love to have a new version of a VM Bus (we didn't call them vans) with all the wonderful new school car luxuries.

Tim, you are a credit to this hobby...

Tim, move to IL, there are plenty here. Quincy and Rock Island IL have great historic preservation programs that help with low intrest loans and assistance getting it on the register. There are some smokin deals out there if you are willing to put in the work and love. I am very much into Americana architecture. I did alot of work on the Rosen house in down town PHX and both the Saguarro Ranch and Manistee Ranch in Glendale AZ.

Old homes have character that takes decades to build.

Oh yeah, it's not to hard to find a cool old bar in a cool old building for sale in IL to.

[ January 24, 2007, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: cheez ]

I'd just like some rupe set decals.

I agree with Tim. Nothing like the find of an original. For me the hunt and find is better than anything. Ebay makes it possible to finish a project quicker but prices also bring out shady sellers of repros. I would almost rather wait a year to find a dusty part in a shop for its original price to finish a project. If things get too easy to find, we will get lazy. Get out from behind the computer and go find it. it's out there STILL.
Also, I have seen used bikes in many areas of the sport sell for more than re finished ones. Says a lot about the trust issue of people selling refinished frames/parts. Too many good repair guys out there.
Believe me I have a bike with chanelled cracks, duplicated welds and re heat treat. I have just written it off to never WOULD sell it and NO ONE would pay what I gots into it anyways.

QUOTE:
"Tim, move to IL,"


Sweet. Then I could stalk him in person instead of just on the internet.

I definatly feel waht your saying Tim, I live in a house that was built in 1928 and have spent hundreds of hours painstakingly restoring it, even to the point of digging down to the original interior paint colors and having them matched.

I recently found a wonderful old mongoose survivor and located a nice survivor seat to replace the torn one that was on it, but I simply cannot bring myself to put it on. That original seat has a 30 year history that it shares with the rest of that bike, and replacing it almost feels like drawing a moustache on the Mona Lisa.

[ January 25, 2007, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: RCain ]

"Sign the Mona Lisa
with a spray-can, call it art
But never give your love, my friend
unto a foolish heart"

---sung by Jerry Garcia (Lyrics penned by Robert Hunter)

[ January 25, 2007, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: agentheinz ]

After restoring a couple bikes that REALLY needed a lot of help, and customizing one (hey, it's a freestyle bike) I'm getting more into seeking out the "survivor" type bikes. Just clean it up and there ya go.

Definately agree with agentheinz, all my bikes are survivors. Only two have repro decals.

Or definitely, oh sh-t, however it's spelled.

Survivors are definitely more "wallet friendly" than an ebay based restore.

It isn't garage sale season around here so we took a cruise through the local pawn shops last weekend.

They all say they don't deal in bicycles.
What?! Is this a common pawn shop rule nowadays?

Most of the pawn shops in my area still deal with bicycles. I'm guessing the ones you hit don't have an employee that can accurately value bikes.

My house was built in 1936/37. It's KY limestone. Pretty cool and the basement walls are close to 4 feet thick. The previous owner had a 1500 sq/ft addition built on that is pretty nice but used brick for the addition instead of stone which today is much more expensive. What I dislike about the original part of the house are the plaster walls and ceilings. Plaster over wood slats is cool in theory but I'd rather have drywall. Plaster just pits too much and updating electrical or plumbing stuff becomes a huge headache . I did some built-in cabinets and shelves a few years back and found some old toys in the wall. just little fake coins etc. that say "tom thumb toys" . pretty cool though. I put a couple of KY derby glasses commerating the previous years race and a newspaper that had photo's and stories about the start of the iraq war ( The whole shock and awe crap of bushes) back into wall and covered it back up. I wonder when they might be discovered. as far as dive bars the one that I frequent the most in my neighborhood has been in continual business since 1940. It has one patron whose name is Clark who has been going to the bar since 1946. He comes in every day at 2:00 in the afternoon to play cribbage, watch tvg ( horse racing channel ) and have a beer and a cigar. He rarely lights up the cigar inside anymore since lexington now has a smoking ban but he does on occasion and hell nobody cares or would complain. plenty of smoking still goes on inside the bar after a certain hour of day anyway. He is on the north side of his 80's and his caregiver pulls up right in front of the door and helps him into his spot which has his name on a brass plate afixed to the bar. It will be a sad day when Clark goes....

Indeed, a Repop Clark wouldn't be the same.

ha, dang now that's funny.

Love older homes as well and being from NJ, plenty of homes over 100 years old. Walking through them with the low creaks, door moldings and most importantly......... oversized lots because they needed to house their horses as well as buggy garages.

But....

I say this as we're getting ready to file permits for demolition on this large Victorian. We need the land for a parking lot since we expanded the building around the block. Did I mention we put a ball through the old 19th century building that sat on that lot as well? Wood frame with sand and brick foundations just come right down. We always save the mantles and wood framing for the equity's homes.

I shall now duck and hide, lol.

It's a difficult subject for me to fully understand from all points of view, but briefly speaking with Tim seems to provide an important perspective. I don't think repro's can be stopped. My opinion has always been that if someone feels they have to make a reproduction part, it should be clearly marked so no one gets ripped off. Weather it's best for the hobby in general to make them in the first place, I don't know for sure. If we're referring to an item with only a few known examples, it's hard to feel sympathy for the few people that may be "hoarding" them. I almost can understand how someone may run off 50 repro's of it. that's 50 people happy instead of 2 or 3. I think the problem is, the happiness is only temporary, and the damage to the original piece's mystic can last forever.
Personally, I can still get the same nastalgic feeling if a part is redone to perfection or slightly better. I've often been disapointed at the poor quality of some of the NOS or original parts I've seen, but that may mostly partain to '85 up parts. I hate to use this as an example, but the NOS paint on Twin's Woody Trickstar is a disgrace to the industry. Good thing he didn't flinch before refusing a repaint.

never mind you don't want to hear it anyway....

I may be giving the wrong impression here. I'm firmly against the reproduction of parts and won't buy or sell reproduction parts. I don't include decals when I say that because I feel there is a diference with them (another argument in itself), but I definately see the problem with the parts. I'm just trying to fully understand both sides and I'm having a hard time believing that all people making these parts are doing it all for the money. I can see where some people think they are helping the hobby by doing it, even people that have been in it for a while.
It would be nice to have standards that most people would agree on, but these topics can go on forever it seems without getting that.
If you feel you have to make parts, at least understand the ramifications involved and mark them clearly.
FV, I am interested in what you may have to say. PM or e-mail me if it's something you don't want to insert in the thread.

Mom -1, Reilley1- 0


Lexington Frank, very cool story, there's probably one like it in every small town, you just don't here enough of them. If you need some advice or have Q's about resto on your home PM me and I'll shoot you my #. I am a Building Official, former GC specializing in historic preservation, and a member of the Marseilles Historic Preservation Board. There are ways to mix current construction materials and practices w/o loosing the character of the building.

Twintoptuber, "I fart in your general dirrection" LOL just Kidding. What condition was the Vic in? some homes are too far gone to be saved, but an attempt should be made to salvage any of the fine wood work or fixtures. I am now dealing with a new development going in here in Minooka where I am the Building Official. There is a old, but solid Victorian along with a great large old gambrel roofed barn that is going to be torn down. It has me very ****ed off! Everytime I have brought up the idea of preserving the buildings and using them for the planned club houses in planning meetings, I have been shot down by the Village administrator along with a few dirty looks (WHAT AN ***!!!) I think you get my point, There are times when it can not be avoided, but many times when these wonderful structures can used for a new purpose and given another life for the wonder of another generation who see's the beauty in them. I gotta stop now before I go into a full blown rant.

[ January 26, 2007, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: cheez ]

To paraphrase Ian Evans, an Australian old house expert:

Conservation, the process of caring for old bikes, employs a variety of techniques including maintenance, preservation, restoration and reconstruction. The process requires respect for the spirit of the original bike and an understanding of the taste and attitudes of the time in which it was built. The new work should of course match the old, preserving original material and detail. Our suburbs and towns contain numerous bikes that have been sadly mistreated for many years and which are in urgent need of the right sort of care and attention. But there are a few old bikes that really should be allowed to grow old gracefully. A bike in this condition is precious because it may be totally, or very nearly original. It is from these bikes that we can learn the most.

I think there's room for both ends of the continuum if the motivation is love for BMX, rather than profiteering.

OH yeah, sorry for my previous thread hi-jack

Kurt, that quote says it all for me in a way I couldn't seem to word correctly. Thanks for sharing that.

Smoke them if you got them! If not find a re-pop artist who can make you happy. A lot of you guys have really nice stuff that is more of an investment than it is hobby,while the great majority of us here do not have the means (mula) or connections(friends) to hit the jackpot over and over again. For most of us in general it is about the soul. Trying to relive some youthfull memories and glory. This means to build the bike as close to your own liking all the while being period correct (somewhat) and maybe actually riding it every once in a while even if it's only down the street and back. I see the price of this hobby getting out of hand. Prices keep getting crazy and all the snipe action on the bay does not help matters, and believe me a lot of us know just how ugly the welds are on a new re-pop ( official ) Schwinn and we know what the real frames are when we see them, and we also know a really good re-pop when we see one. SS bars or decals or whatever! We buy it because we need it to finish the bike. The same bike that's been hanging out in the living room or kitchen that your wife or who ever has been *****ing about! There is a need and a market for this stuff but what we don't need is the get rich quick guys who buy trailers worth of stuff and redistribute them to us at astronomical prices. So what are we to do? That is the question!

In essence, the hobby is it's own worst enemy. It creates it's own market both high and low. If some guys can't swing the $$ for the big ticket items, this opens the doors for a repopper and thus meeting the demand at a lower cost "like" item. The big $$ stuff will be just that. Big $$ stuff. I don't really care either way. I can swing either way on this issue myself. If I want the big ticket item, I can swing it no problem. If I'm not down for it and there is a cheaper alternative, then I might go that route. Who cares, that's up to me to decide.

G-Flash, perfect!