I'm looking to collect a Champion F+F tomorrow , its a 20" used frame with NOS forks . Can anyone help with serial numbers on these as in dates etc ? .

Serial is : CO11506





Any help much appreciated

Ay history information on Champion is much appreciated like Ads , Years of manufacture etc etc .

i have asked this community a couple of times for the "code" for Champion serial numbers. to no avail...

here's part of the Kastan interview in the museum secition of this fabulous site:

VintageBMX.com: What was the relationship with Champion?

LK: Well, Champion was owned by a guy named Doug Schwerma, and he and I were early competitors in the motorcycle frame business. And there is a really interesting story: Yamaha International decided to come out with a division called YDPI, I think. I cant remember exactly what it stood for, but it was a division within Yamaha International, Yamaha USA, to distribute these hot rod parts that we made for flat track guys like frame sets and crank shafts and primary case covers and all this kind of stuff. They were going to distribute them themselves. And there were not a lot of people in the accessory frame business, mainly Redline and Champion. And we did a lot of work for Honda in those early years making prototype moto cross frames. We worked a lot with Honda R&D; we worked a lot with Kawasaki; we did a lot of motorcycle projects in the early days. Yamaha sent out a couple of letters. One to us and one to Champion. They were in Hayward, up in the Bay Area. And all of a sudden, we saw that Yamaha was selling Champion frame sets. And I called, I cant remember the guy's name who was running it at the time. I said "well, why did you go with him?" and he said, "well, because you didn't respond to the quote." And I said, "I never got anything from you." And he said, "well, we sent everything out a couple of months ago, and he was the only one who responded so we just kind of went with him." So shortly thereafter we went to a larger plant, and when we were moving, I found a letter from them behind the secretary's desk.

VintageBMX.com: It never made it to your desk.

LK: I never saw it. So Schwerma got that job, and he started having a lot of success, and he made very good stuff. I have to give him full credit. He had a nice little factory up there and Doug Schwerma was a very clever guy. But he started making a little bit of money, and he, how can I put this diplomatically? He inhaled most of it.

VintageBMX.com: Okay.

LK: So he ended up committing suicide. He pulled over on the side of the road, on some lonely stretch of road and finished it off. Put a garden hose in his exhaust pipe and killed himself. So we got a call from either it was his bank or somebody asking if we were interest in his plant. So we drove up, actually we flew up. We had our own airplane at that time. We flew up and we landed at Hayward airport and we went and looked at his plant. He had been gone for about three months, as I recall. And we walked into this plant and it was as if the lunch bell went off and people walked out and never came back. Things were set up on jobs. There were cigarettes in ashtrays. And we made them an offer. I cant remember what it was now. We bought the whole place and the name, and we loaded up a couple of 40 foot trailers; and we brought it all down to Chatsworth, and put it in our plant. We dedicated. We kind of split them up at that stage. Redline was making mostly bicycle stuff, and Champion was doing motorcycle stuff. That would have been in 1976 or around there. And when I bought out my partner(Mike Konle). I took Redline, and he kept Champion.

VintageBMX.com: Did he continue making Champion bicycles at that point?

LK: He tried to make a few bicycles, but mainly what he did was, he was a big subcontractor for Skip Hess.

LK: Schwerma made the first Champion bike frames with that triangulated front section, he had a small tube piercing the downtube.

LK: Mike Konle continued with that for a while, but he finally gave up on it and got out of the bike business and went into the crane business (one of his truck cranes is featured in the movie, Terminator 3- Rise of the Machines).

Thanks atxbmx ,

I've seen F+F or completes dated , an example being nfr511 (Tom) who has a 24" and it is an 82 ? .

Anyone else ? .

I believe that to be an 1983 frame set. I own one of every model of production frame that Champion produced from the Schwerma days until the end. I have not been able to unravel the sn's. Nice frame should make for a good build.

As the owner of 2 Schwerma Champs I just don't think the later made frames are as cool as the first ones, what year did those forks come out first, I have a set on my rider Champ and I don't think they are era correct for a Schwerma Champ, I need to find a set of Red Line forks that I can modify or with a 5" headtube or some other 76 era 5" headtube forks.

spike, i own 6 Champions (all post-Schwerma) and they all have that fork (20, 24, and 26). the Schwerma-era fork had the dropouts directly underneath (not in front) and had a bit of rake. i believe darren sold a set of 20" originals on ebay recently. i've also seen the Schwerma Champs with Tange and Ashtabula (?) forks. of course, Redline would be a nice touch, especially considering the interview with L. Kastan.

the serial # question remains. oh, well...maybe someday...

The Champ I've had for 30 years has Red Line forks that I bought from Brent Patterson after he started using Speedo forks for $20.00. I guess I'll just ride with what I have until I find something like Proline forks or something that'll fit that is era correct.

How can I tell which era Champion it is I own?
I have to borrow a camera and take some pictures so you guys can help me with info.

Thanks guys , I'm not sure it makes any difference but my forks are NOS and did'nt originally come with this actual frame .

Here are some of the images I've collected of 20's & 24's with the years quoted by the owners , starting with early & Redline forks ? as you mention above .

20 inch 76/77


20 inch 1980


20 inch 1982


24 inch 1981


24 inch 1982


Could mine be 1980-1982 ? One of the 20's & both 24's have the same forks . The serial number seems the stumbling block ! .

Matt

The Champ in the top picture is the one I've had since 1976, it had a hard life and was neglected for along time. It's retired now. It's frame #CF187. My rider Champ is either frame #CF17 or #CF171, the numbers have been filed but ya can still see it a bit. It's in rough shape but rides great.

Spike ,

That is well cool , thanks for the reply .

That 76 is rockin' , I'm in the UK & we did'nt know about BMX in 76 ! LOL .

I'm reallly buzzing after picking this & a Thruster (pic below) up today , they are a break from the norm (GHP/Profile/Vector/Redline etc) for me & really cool additions .

I don't know the Thruster history but was told it was a 79 Jamie Burrows ? , the Thruster like the Champion has NOS forks that were'nt supplied with the frame originally .



Do you know anyone that could help me with Champion or Thruster decals ?? .

Matt

There are Schwerma era Champ stickers on ebay now from 2 different guys.

I saw those , a bit early for mine . I'm hoping to get the look of the the 24's above decal wise .