What is the difference between the Californian f&f, & the pro Class f&f?

I'd like to ask also, what year was the first Cali and what year was the first pro class.

f+f sets are the same. models differed by what parts were on each bike. i believe cali and pro class both came out in 83 but i'm not sure. somebody please correct this if i'm wrong.

83 was the first year for the looptail Cali and Pro Class frames.
The difference between the two...There are a few. The PC used bigger diameter tubing in the rear triangle as well as the top and down tubes.
The bottom bracket angle was also different.
Here is a thread that has some good info.
Goose thread

goblue, yes, you are wrong. Tony S. pretty much summed it up.

I believe the first year of the Pro Class was actually late `82. They had a "California Special" that year as well, although it was still a gusset frame and not a looptail. These are shown in the `83 Mongoose catalog with the other gusset/non-looptail bikes. I know that at least one of the Pro Class' that either I or my buddies have had have been an `82 serial number.

-Dave

Pro Class's were indeed late 82
3 UK pros got one each following a trip to the states that was around Nov 82

the cali and the blue max shared a frame
and i am not 100% on the expert - as it seems there were both 100% chromo and trimoly's in the 83 - 85 era

I have an `83 Californian that's trimoly (white TT sticker), my son has an `84 Expert (w/`85 S#!??) that is full chromoly (white TT sticker), and my buddy has an `84 Californian that's full chromoly (red TT sticker) as well. I'm pretty sure all the m1's were trimoly, regardless of year.

So whats the tubing size difference?

There is none between m1, Expert, Californian and most Supergooses, only Pro Class and some Supergooses.

Thats what I mean. Between the Californian & Pro Class.

non-Pro Class:

1 1/8" top tube
1 1/8" down tube
7/8" ID seat post tube"
5/8" rear triangle

Pro Class:

1 1/8" top tube (later `80's Eric Rupe's had 1 1/4")
1 1/4" down tube
15/16" ID seat post tube" (not sure of exact size, but it is larger than reg. loptail)
3/4" rear triangle

All tubing on Pro Class is very thin wall and is substantially different from reg. looptail, if viewed with bearing cups removed. Some Supergooses received the larger diameter tubing, but it was not thin wall. Does that help?

-Dave

Yeah I think so. I am gonna try & find a Pro Class, but don't want to get a Californian in disguise.

Easiest/fastest way to ID a non-Pro Class is by the rear brake bridge. Pro class & Supergoose has three holes, all others have one. If you look in Tony S's link above to my pics in the other thread, you can see the diff. in the top view shot.

If it has three holes, it could still be a Supergoose and not a Pro Class. You will have to take the cups off to view the thickness of the tubing (also shown in link to other thread), or weigh it. Totally naked frame on a non-high tech bathroom scale is:

Pro Class = 4lbs
Californian = 4.5 lbs
Supergoose = 5lbs (large diameter tubing, but not thin wall)

-Dave

Thanks for your help!

And remember, per ebays rules, if it doesn't have decals on it, it must me a Pro Class.......

hey guys, dont forget the eric rupe sig bike in late 83, it had 1&1/4" top and down tubes! just wanted to throw that in there for ya, lol!

--mike.