P.S. The pieces are only NOS until "used". Lacing them does not make them used IMO. There is no bearing wear, no brake marks etc... They are still NEW, they are still OLD STOCK, until they are used.

You can build a complete bike using all NOS parts, and if the bike is never ridden, there is no wear on any of the parts, it's a NOS bike.

There will be a lot of debate on this I am sure, but that's my 2 cents.

i wall them nos not like some people selling part that have been restored and want to call them nos so the best dicription would be true nos never used never mounted is true nos if this the case with your rims then they are true nos nice st of wheels by the way

WELL these are NOS laced by a pro! .... these will go on a 24' cruiser once I find all my NOS parts THEN I will ride it!! LIKE ALL BIKES are ment to be!!!

..... oh till then those wheels will STAY NOS!! and hang off my wall.... that's the fun of NOS-MINT!!!!!!

[ October 20, 2006, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: osamaie ]

A wheelset built with all NOS parts is not an NOS wheelset.

a new old stock wheelset would be just that - a wheelset built bitd and never used.

proof is in the pudding. NOS parts built into a wheel have been used. they do have wear. take the wheels back apart, and the individual parts are no longer NOS, because they have now been used and show wear (especially the hubs).

I agree...I say, "no". Here is an NOS wheel set from the factory.





Here is a set I laced with all NOS pieces.

Nope, NOS spokes hubs etc built up wouldn't be NOS wheels, just like ya can't build a survivor outta old parts.

Time is the issue here. I agree I think they are NOS until they are used. What difference does it make if they were laced 25 years ago or 25 minutes ago. If NOS parts were used to assemble the wheels then I would consider them to be NOS wheels. Besides the parts don't know how to tell time.

Splittin' hairs but I see yer point......I think it's factory versus shop made.

an NOS wheel would be a wheel built bitd at the factory, or, say, an AJ wheel built by Canoga Bike Shop and sold as "AJ Wheels". the wheel, as a complete unit, would by definition be New OLD STOCK.

anything else, is just a wheel, but not NOS. the "S" part of NOS, stock, signifies something from a manufacturer, not something built in your garage.

[ October 20, 2006, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: TIM ]

Harumph, harumph...er exactly

example: you buy an NOS Motomag II, in the box. you decide you prefer Shimano MX coaster brakes over the Bendix 76 brake in the wheel. so you swap out an NOS Shimano MX brake for the Bendix. It's no longer an NOS wheel, because you have changed the factory configuration of that particular wheel.

[ October 20, 2006, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: TIM ]

Time: a non-spatial continuum of irreversable succession. LOL

I agree with you sprinter.....point well made.

Yes, but again parts don't know when they were assembled. As the point was made above, some parts were factory assembled,some were done by bike shops and still others were done by hobbyists. How does that change the fact that they are all old parts assembled a some point in their existance? If I built a 1965 Corvette with all NOS parts out of the box in 2006, does that make the Corvette a 2006 model ? I can see the point of factory assembled being a point here but it is the parts here that we are talking about not the assembly point.

Interesting read on NOS...substitute the word "bike" for "tubes" and it is a relevant read.

http://www.audiotubes.com/nos.htm

osamaie, what brand are those hubs?

New. Not used condition.

Old. 1980

Stock. merchandise on a shelf.

Hubs NOS, Spokes NOS, Rims NOS. Wheels are still NOS.

The only difference is the facts. They are laced wheels made from NOS parts. They are still NOS.

If you want an unlaced NOS hub then you dont want these.

If you unlace them, they can easily be described as NOS hubs, that were previously laced into wheels.

They are still NOS, but their condition is not as good as never laced.

It's all metaphysical drivel. It still boils down to an accurate description of the item when buying and selling them.

But clearly, IMO they still fit the 3 words; New, Old, and Stock. They just need further descripton.

NOS previously laced and shown.
NOS never laced.
NOS Ridden only at rockford bike shows.
NOS New In Box
NOS Sealed package
NOS Shelf wear
NOS Dropped on concrete floor by moron

As long as you know what you are getting, who cares?

BTW, to prove the metaphysical nature of this topic.

Nothing here at VBMX is NOS. Because nothing is really old.

Define Old......

Pragmatics vs. metaphysics.

Any hub taken out of a wheel is NOT NOS.

Ted you forgot the following

NOS, used very hard for 5 years (20+ years ago), damaged many times during that period, rebuilt when damaged, stored in a damp basement for the past 20 years as the design was no longer cool at the track after 5 years, rediscovered last week, and refinished last week, decals from a reliable source via ebay

Or better yet, in 1979 I had the shop build one set of wheels, and purchased them complete. At the same time I bought 2 rims, a pair of hubs, and 72 spokes and nipples, all parts identical to the parts in my new wheels, same vintage, manufacturer, color etc...

Now it's 2006 I take these parts that had been "stock" back to the same shop, have the same wheel builder build them as my original set, using identical parts...

Are the 2006 wheels, sold as stock parts by the same shop, laced in the same shop, by the same wheel builder that has built all their wheels for the past 30 years... Are they NOS?

I can't see how the only variable that is different between the two, the dates they were laced, can make something NOS or not.

Sprinter, some will argue that once you build the wheels wether it be in 1979 or 2006 the PARTS that you bought are no longer NOS.

After assemblying the wheel components in 1979 could you have returned the parts as new?

As long as we are splitting hairs

How about this angle on Survivor VS Build.

If you have all of your old race bikes, some complete and some parted, and you reassemble one of your bikes the way it was BITD with all the same parts that you had then, is it a:

1. A survivor
2. A re assembled survivor.
3. A survivor build.
4. A ???

Or does a survivor have to be as it was since 1979 never taken apart, even for cleaning or maintenence.

So only if the factory put the wheel together could it only be considered New Old Stock?

My personal belief is that as long as it has not been mounted it is still NOS. So that means there is no such thing as NOS only mounted once on a show bike.

I have a question for Tim. How do you know that Sting was put together at the factory? I always thought most companies sent their bikes out unassembled at least no wheels or pedals and the final touches were done in the shop.

If it doesn't have packaging is it NOS?

Mint NOS?
NOS with shelf wear?
NOS but has minor scratches from kicking around the shop?
NOS mounted on a show bike?
NOS out of package for picture?

Blah blah blah blah......................

Semantics:

1. Linguistics.
a. the study of meaning.
b. the study of linguistic development by classifying and examining changes in meaning and form.
2. Also called significs. the branch of semiotics dealing with the relations between signs and what they denote.
3. the meaning, or an interpretation of the meaning, of a word, sign, sentence, etc.: Let's not argue about semantics.

In linguistics, semantics is the subfield that is devoted to the study of meaning, as borne on the syntactic levels of words, phrases, sentences, and sometimes larger units of discourse, generically referred to as texts. As with any empirical science, semantics involves the interplay of concrete data with theoretical concepts, and specializations have developed that focus on different parts of that interaction, for example, the semantics of natural languages and formal languages, respectively.

you can toss out "what ifs" all you want. the one thing in common is you're all trying to widen the definition of New Old Stock to meet your needs. we all know deep down what NOS means.

once you build a wheel, none of the parts are NOS any longer. they are used. the wheel, being a new build, is not NOS. it wasn't a wheel until you built it 4 days ago.

[ October 21, 2006, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: TIM ]

WELL once a set of wheels are on a bike how can they become NOS?.. AS i showed you my NOS wheels.. that never have been mounted or USED.. (check hubs) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSS!!

Hey Timbo.. can you show us where you get your info from?.. is it from a book that you have created?.. hehehe.. or it from the re-pop book that you keep quoting from? hahahaha

OSAMA

i least i walk the talk..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...32284&rd=1&rd=1

but what if....

they ain't NOS!! it was build for a show bike then taken off?.. so your rule of thumb book is wrong homie!!!

Tim nailed it. We all know what NOS means.
We just want to stretch its' definition when we are in selling/eBay marketing ourselves mode, or feeling guilty when taking NOS individual items and mounting/building them, knowing they will never be the same aout of the package no matter how great they look on our bikes.

here you go Timbo - Item number: 280036984599 - NOS!!!

you one of those guys, osamaie, who can't read an auction description and asks the seller dumb questions as a result? i clearly do NOT describe the wheels as NOS. i describe them, for those who cannot read english, this way: all the parts were NOS until the wheels were built. the wheels themselves are mint condition.

[ October 21, 2006, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: TIM ]

from what I've read, nos has to be in the sack

QUOTE this one!! looks like you need some NOS brain parts Timbo!!.. hehehe.. It's a real shame you have no sense of humour!! your a classic example!!

Do you ever ride your NOS-so build bikes? Makes us all wonder..

and, yes, the issue bothers me because i have been sold "NOS" parts by many many people who seem to think the part remains "NOS" forever, even if they lace the hubs up, ride em for a year, then unlace them and put them back in the box.

NOS is a very narrow definition of a small (percentage-wise) number of parts floating around a hobby. i'd guess the term is misused with 50% or more of all "NOS" parts sold.

So if I have a NOS stem I am thinking about putting on a build. I put some bars in it to see how they look together. Hand tighen the bolts, then take the bars back out, the stem is no longer NOS because I used it for its purpose and function? I know alot of guys do this when mocking up a build.

We can go on all night like this. I don't think anyone is trying to widen the definition to fit thier needs as much as some are trying to tighten the definition to fit their needs.

In the end it comes down to your opionion. If you think a set like the ones Tim posted are should be considered NOS then that's cool. If you don't that's cool too. If you post them for sale as NOS then those that think like you will be happy and may pay more. Those that don't think like you will not want to pay as much.

it should not come down to opinion. i do not want to buy an "NOS" wheelset from Sprinter only to find he built them last week.

it is not "cool" to misrepresent stuff when you are selling it. as i said i have a big pile of you guys' "NOS" stuff. lots of it was more than a little used. should those sellers' opinions be respected?

[ October 21, 2006, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: TIM ]

I really cannot believe it has come to this where we are having issues over parts as if they were trading commodoties.

These are bikes. And bike parts. New, used, NOS, who cares, get over it. Bikes are made for riding. Even 'priceless' Ferrari 250 GTOs get wrung out on the racetracks still.