Full Version: Laguna, Race Inc. or FMF???
Picked this up today at the swap meet!! Nos blue anodized beauty!!! Never built and still in the original paper wrapping. Not sure if it is a Laguna, Race Inc. or FMF??? The dropouts are FMF style, but the brake bridge and lack of hole in the gussett tell me it is Race Inc? Laguna?
FMF never offered blue frames. Red and Gold only.
Puegeot marketed the Race-1 which was offered only in blue.
Cut to the chase, its a blue Race Inc, lacking any decals
Puegeot marketed the Race-1 which was offered only in blue.
Cut to the chase, its a blue Race Inc, lacking any decals
Are these all made at the same place? Every once in a while I see them mixed up, even the PK stuf. thats verry cool, by the way.
Tom
Tom
Bill, I didn't even think of the color thing with the FMF!! Duh! So Laguna is out of the question??
the Laguna BMX GTA Alloy Frame is the exact same frame... except the only blue that Laguna offered was epoxy, not anodized.
that leaves Race Inc.
[ September 24, 2006, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: TIM ]
that leaves Race Inc.
[ September 24, 2006, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: TIM ]
Another BBB (Bastian's Bastard Beauties)
Nice!
Nice!
Thanks Tim!!!!
I am thinking it could have been sold as a Cycle Pro Spoiler. I have the identical frame in gold that I purchased new in 78. It came with Cycle Pro spoiler stickers on the down tube. When I purchased it (at Beavers) they also had a Cycle Pro Foiler in Blue. The difference was the top tube was a teardrop shape.
That frame is perfect.
That frame is perfect.
I have a blue Race Inc identical to the one pictured whats your serial number I'll compare it.
Bender
Bender
Bender, there is no serial number anywhere on the bike. Thanks for the offer though!
My Cycle Pro also has no serial number
Scott,
I believe the reason that William is asking is because early Race Inc built frames had no serial numbers. The decals were the identifying factor, no decals, no ID
I believe the reason that William is asking is because early Race Inc built frames had no serial numbers. The decals were the identifying factor, no decals, no ID
It also has the longer seatstay wrap like a FMF. It's an FMF with the Race Inc front gusset. But like someone else said, FMF never sold them in blue. It must be what Reilley 1 said. Look on ebay and you will see the bastard Race Inc frames come up pretty often. You have to figure that after FMF pulled out, Bastian had to use up all the FMF drops and gussets so he just used them on other bikes.
What did you pay for it?
What did you pay for it?
My first real race frame was a gold Laguna - It had the same gusset at the seat tube/down tube junction, but I think the head tube gusset had a hole through the center. I'm pretty positive the dropouts were the same as yours.
These frames are all so similar, they had to have been manufactured at the same facility.
Damn, it's never been touched. Not a frickin' scratch on the thing. That is a solid score...
These frames are all so similar, they had to have been manufactured at the same facility.
Damn, it's never been touched. Not a frickin' scratch on the thing. That is a solid score...
Mindblower that you can find stuff like that at a swap meet!!
quote:Little late to the party, aren't we? LOL
These frames are all so similar, they had to have been manufactured at the same facility.
Race Inc, owned by Bill Bastian, built all the frames in questions. The discerning physical characteristics were a hole in the headtube gusset or the lack of one. Also a telltale sign is a lengthwise weld on the bottom of the chainstay lug.
The weld determines if the frame was an FMF era or SE Racing era.
When FMF was in the BMX business, the lug was formed by a rolled section of flat stock that weled to form a "floval" shaped tube.
When SE Racing brought out a line of frames, that lug was made from a section of seamless floval tubing. Floval aluminum tubing didn't exist in BMX until SE Racing because it was SE that paid Alcoa to create tooling ot create the floval tubing.
Simply put, FMF and SE were not in production together at any time. Scot Briethaupt was FMF BMX. When he left FMF to start SE, FMF went poof! and the BMX division was no more.
Quetzalcoatl,
Are you speaking of the floval section behind the bottom bracket? And if so are you saying that FMF era frames had a weld that went from the bottom bracket to the lower chainstay loop? (My Cycle pro or whatever anyone wants to call it has such a weld as I think the blue frame on this post)
And if yes to the above I am thinking a clear date of when Scot left dates all frames. And that date is???
But in all cases the frames are made by Bill Bastian?
Rascal, FMF, Cycle Pro, Race Inc. Laguna are there others?
Thanks,
Curt
Are you speaking of the floval section behind the bottom bracket? And if so are you saying that FMF era frames had a weld that went from the bottom bracket to the lower chainstay loop? (My Cycle pro or whatever anyone wants to call it has such a weld as I think the blue frame on this post)
And if yes to the above I am thinking a clear date of when Scot left dates all frames. And that date is???
But in all cases the frames are made by Bill Bastian?
Rascal, FMF, Cycle Pro, Race Inc. Laguna are there others?
Thanks,
Curt
quote:When I use the term "lug", it means the connector forthe seat stays or the chain stays to the front triangle. In this case, yes, the floval tube behind the bottom bracket.
Are you speaking of the floval section behind the bottom bracket? And if so are you saying that FMF era frames had a weld that went from the bottom bracket to the lower chainstay loop? (My Cycle pro or whatever anyone wants to call it has such a weld as I think the blue frame on this post)
quote:If your Cycle Pro has a weld, it was built before the SE era.
on the bottom of the chainstay lug.
Race Inc used cutoff sections of SE Racing top tube floval material for that lug on later frames.
Bill Bastian didn't make the Rascal. Rascals were built by Triple A Accessories, a former employer of Bill Bastian. Triple A built their own line of frames and built the Kawasaki BX100 and BX200 bikes for Kawasaki.
Bastian left the employ of Triple A and started up Race Inc.
Basic bicycle terminology 101
Frame:
Head tube
Top tube
Down tube
Seat mast
Seat stay
Chain stay
Bridge
Dropout
Gusset
Lug (some frames have stay lugs like a Mongoose or a Race Inc, others like 80's Redlines don't)
FORKS:
Steerer tube
Fork crown
Fork leg
Dropout
take us to the bridge!
Thanks for all of the info Bill. Now does anybody have some nos stickies for this thing????
You're welcome..
Nice score!
Nice score!
Thanks for the detailed explaination of frame terms.
A few more for you.
I will assume the Cycle Pro Spoilers and Foilers were pre SE era?
Did Cycle Pro or West Coast Cycle have the Spoiler, Foiler frame stickers made or?
I am thinking that Race Inc or Laguna versions were not marketed side by side with the Cycle Pro frames?
Regarding the SE era, what was the date (month year) of when that began? I will guess at some point in 78?
Thanks again for taking the time with the details.
Curt
A few more for you.
I will assume the Cycle Pro Spoilers and Foilers were pre SE era?
Did Cycle Pro or West Coast Cycle have the Spoiler, Foiler frame stickers made or?
I am thinking that Race Inc or Laguna versions were not marketed side by side with the Cycle Pro frames?
Regarding the SE era, what was the date (month year) of when that began? I will guess at some point in 78?
Thanks again for taking the time with the details.
Curt
Curt, SE started offering frames in mid 78, I believe.
Tim, you say that Laguna only offered an epoxy blue and never a blue anno. I just sold a frame during my selling spree that was blue anno that no longer had decals on it but you could plainly read Laguna on both sides of the down tube where the sun had faded the anno around the decal. This was a smaller frame than the RA7 though. It was one of the expert sized frames marketed as the Laguna and the Rampar.
Larock, Nice score man. Sure wish that would happen to me.
[ September 24, 2006, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: BRIAN HAYS ]
Tim, you say that Laguna only offered an epoxy blue and never a blue anno. I just sold a frame during my selling spree that was blue anno that no longer had decals on it but you could plainly read Laguna on both sides of the down tube where the sun had faded the anno around the decal. This was a smaller frame than the RA7 though. It was one of the expert sized frames marketed as the Laguna and the Rampar.
Larock, Nice score man. Sure wish that would happen to me.
[ September 24, 2006, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: BRIAN HAYS ]
BRIAN..
in the 1978 Laguna catalog is the identical frame to Larock's new toy. it is listed as a Laguna BMX GTA Alloy Frame, and is offered in polished, gold annodized, blue epoxy, and red epoxy.
i did not say Laguna never sold a blue ano frame. just not that model.
in the 1978 Laguna catalog is the identical frame to Larock's new toy. it is listed as a Laguna BMX GTA Alloy Frame, and is offered in polished, gold annodized, blue epoxy, and red epoxy.
i did not say Laguna never sold a blue ano frame. just not that model.
Gotcha, that's why I stated that about mine being a smaller frame, because I thought maybe you specifically meant just that model, but you didn't really state it like that. At the risk of sounding like I'm ball hugging here, I truly would never question your knowledge on anything 70's BMX. I should have worded my post a little differently. Thanks for the info.
I can't tell for sure but it seems that the frame in question is in the center of a schizim on the other site, not sure if there is true anger or just bustin stugots. Cool frame none the less.
I have a Gold Race Inc. That has the FMF dropouts but has the floval rear bottom bracket brace not the seamed piece.
Bender
Bender
Post up some pics Bender.... I want to see any of these confused Race-Inc's as i have 1 myself...
Mine has the FMF dropouts and a Cycle-Pro Foiler top tube... I just love this stuff!!!!
Scotty
Mine has the FMF dropouts and a Cycle-Pro Foiler top tube... I just love this stuff!!!!
Scotty
There's another site?
not a "Hot Tuna Laguna"?
i know i haven't said this lately, but...
I LOVE YOU GUYS!
this thread is a fine example of the true breadth of information contained within the collective minds of this membership.
now, if i could just get the same type detailed analysis of the dang serial numbers on Champions, i'd be impressed.
I LOVE YOU GUYS!
this thread is a fine example of the true breadth of information contained within the collective minds of this membership.
now, if i could just get the same type detailed analysis of the dang serial numbers on Champions, i'd be impressed.
I'll take pics if someone can post them for me. I forgot how?
ifhbiffefreet@hotmail.com
Bender
ifhbiffefreet@hotmail.com
Bender
Finding Bill Bastian for an interview would be about the hottest thing right now, lol.
Awesome post, awesome frame.
This was definately a lesson well learned!!!!! This place is always a plethora of information. The knowledge base here is hard to beat!!! Thanks boys!!!
Another note (and because of this post) I checked my gold Cycle pro frame and took photos today. (when I learn to post pics you can see)
In any event the frame is identical to larocks and it has the welded seam on the "lug" (thanks Quetzalcoatl). Which I think makes it a late 77 or early 78 model.
Larock, does yours have the welded seam on the lug?
In any event the frame is identical to larocks and it has the welded seam on the "lug" (thanks Quetzalcoatl). Which I think makes it a late 77 or early 78 model.
Larock, does yours have the welded seam on the lug?
Curt, mine does have the welded seam.
Here are some pics of Curt's Cycle Pro.
Wow, thanks!
Curt, when you get old and feeble, will you leave me that frameset in your will?
Bender, until this very moment I had never seen a non welded "lug" ever. Until this thread did not know they were made. And did we not speak briefly about something 5-7 years ago??? Did you not have some really nice GJS frames?
Brian, How about this, we could trade, 1 JU6 (yours)for 1 Cycle pro (mine) and I will throw in an extra headtube I found at UPS.
Brian, How about this, we could trade, 1 JU6 (yours)for 1 Cycle pro (mine) and I will throw in an extra headtube I found at UPS.
That'd be me Curt. I have a photo of a bunch of your frames somewhere that you mailed to me.
Oh I still have some super rare GJSs
Bender
Oh I still have some super rare GJSs
Bender
" Oh I still have some super rare GJSs"
Showoff
"Brian, How about this, we could trade, 1 JU6 (yours)for 1 Cycle pro (mine) and I will throw in an extra headtube I found at UPS. "
Oh you had yourself a deal until you twisted that knife.
Showoff
"Brian, How about this, we could trade, 1 JU6 (yours)for 1 Cycle pro (mine) and I will throw in an extra headtube I found at UPS. "
Oh you had yourself a deal until you twisted that knife.
"Bender, until this very moment I had never seen a non welded "lug" ever. Until this thread did not know they were made."
Sorry, if I'd known that I'd have sent you pics. I've got three RA7's that are the one piece unwelded lug.
Sorry, if I'd known that I'd have sent you pics. I've got three RA7's that are the one piece unwelded lug.
I did not know until this thread of the many differences (other than Spoilers round tube and Foilers tear drop tube) between the frames.
Larock got this ball rolling for this wealth of info (for me anyway)
I will ask one more, when did these frames cease and under what name?
Larock got this ball rolling for this wealth of info (for me anyway)
I will ask one more, when did these frames cease and under what name?
1984 when Race Inc closed the doors. The Race Inc RA7 would have been the last surviving name of these frames. I think it was made till the end. The rest of them, FMF, Laguna, and both Cycle Pro's were early frames. The RA7 was offered at the beginning of Race inc and was sold all the way through, I believe. They may have stopped making them in 83 when the new RA9 and RA10 were offered. Not sure. Remember also that the RA7 was marketed as a SE Racing Basher for a short time. PK Ripped has one. Maybe he'll post a pic. The Basher was offered three times. Once as an alloy Race Inc frame, once as a steel looptail frame with the PK geometry and then in the 80's as a frame made by Murray that was the same as all their frames.
I have NOS CYCLE PRO SPOILER decals for that frame if you still need them?
Do you have a FMF and/or Laguna frame/frames Brian????
Scotty
Scotty
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