werd.

SAND-N-DIRTBAG !!

Sander has a shnit ton of stuff on e-bay right now. Maybe too busy to check in with us. LOL.

Reilley Spank the monkey!!! :hungry:Sodbuster you are wright but the $1.00 will win all the time!!!

Sod, absolutely right. The Year One catalog, et al., all the parts are licensed GM, Mopar, Ford etc. The problem being is that most of the old BMX companies are now defunct, making that impossible. The next resort is to make a product that is distinguishable from the orig. Kappa has the right idea with their cranks; you can make a crankset that resembles the orig, but doesn't have the exact markings and uses a completely different spindle, and so on. If restoration parts are to be made, failing the licensing scenario this is how it needs to be done in order to be legit.

Keithandstef, what is his ebay ID so I know not to purchase.

there will always be buyers standing in line for a repro'er's stuff. guys who say "i can't afford original", or "i'm not paying crazy money". a percentage of those buyers will always be scammers intending to resell the repro stuff as NOS. i have never seen a repro item that has not been misrep'ed as NOS eventually. and usually sooner rather than later.

the BUYERS of repro stuff are just as responsible for the problem as MAKERS/SELLERS. if nobody bought the stuff, nobody would make it. i'll bet you a quarter that Sander sold every single set of Sanderspeeds he could get made. bet you 1/2 the Aerospeeds you see on UK builds are Sander's.

[ September 08, 2006, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: TIM ]

I was wrong. Thought I knew Sander's e-bay handle, so have deleted the reference in this post. Thanks Joe P.

[ September 08, 2006, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Keithandstef ]

I'm 100% sure RockChick is NOT Sander, he is Biagio,but he mine as well be Sander...Was it the knockoff Aero spindles that made you think that Keith?

I hear what you're saying Tim. "The buyers of repro stuff are as responsible...", but that assumes the buyer knew it was repro, and that is tough to know for certain from a picture and some lame-as* description even after mutliple questions. To me, it's on the seller each and every time. Anyone who knows a fair amount about what the old school stuff looks like (and even should look like if it's been in a box for 25 years), knows what real and not real when we have it in our hands (i.e. as sellers). We have seen the real thing in real life, and can tell close up, even if made to spec. No one could reporo a GT pro frame or 401 Flight cranks, hand then to me to touch, feel and scrutinze, and pawn it off as real. Not going to happen. The sellers of HIGH END stuff (which is really what this about practically speaking), if they have it to begin with, know what they're selling. Period. If they bought it unwittingly. That sucks. I just hope they don't try and resell it as real. The sellers are the problem, not the buyers. It always boils down to what's advertised.

Dammit. You're right Joe P! That's why I always leave myself 5% of wiggle room in my assertions LOL!

Keithandstef...

i refer to repro buyers meaning those who say "I'd buy repro widgets if somebody made them." the guys who don't want to spend the going rates to participate in a collectible hobby. the guys who answer every repro'ers "would anybody be interested if i made 50 repro widgets?" with a resounding yes. the guys who drive the repro market by purchasing them to begin with.

that is what gets repro's out into the market to begin with. nobody would make them if nobody wanted to buy them.

That is true. The eager buyers keep the hope/idea alive for the next guy thinking about a repop forging. My above point is sort of idealistic, because as you said, there are so many people out there willing to scam/mislead others. Dang, before I got off track, who were we talking about?? OH.....SANDER!!!!

Lets let this thread die. Sanders not coming back here.

There is a saying in the collector field in general (definitely in antique firearms and military edged weapons)

Caveat Emptor - Latin for "Buyer Beware"

I'm not advocating selling reproduction parts as original, it's just time to be aware that this field of collecting has gotten as serious as others in that some items are genuinely worth a good bit of money. Consequently we as collectors need to educate ourselves as much as possible to safeguard against conterfeiting.
All you super serious guys like Tim, Rick R., Ken Pliska, here's an idea:
For years I've purchased guides for antique firearms collectors, specifically Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Arms by noted collector and historian Norm Flayderman. They are filled with data on years of manufacture in what numbers, location of manufacture, identifying characteristics, photographs, etc., for all American firearms manufacturers and private gunsmiths as well.
Maybe it's time for you guys to collaborate on something similar for BMX bikes?

[ September 08, 2006, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Mike Corvin ]

Why don't you make a place here where close up and detailed photos show all the items that are being repopped, both the real item and the fakes, detailing how to tell the difference, they do it in military collecting, do a side by side comparison of both the real and fake and then tell everyone who is making the fakes.

Exactly. Flayderman's Guide always lists known copys and fakes of valuable firearms and how to identify them.

Is one of the questions that we were hoping to get answered by Sander; Exactly how many sets of fakes are out there?

??500 originals, 1/2 still in existance ??? Diluted by 10 pairs? 20? 200???

Maybe I missed it being asked, but that is the big one I'd like to know. Help factor the odds of getting a re-pop instead of an original.

Not that he is coming back....

For all the newer members reading this thread, note how people such as Sander lack any respect for you. They don't care if you're hurt by a transaction or not, they just want your money.

Don't misunderstand most of them either, they only collect real deal authentic. Best of condition if not, NOS, real deal parts/bikes. Yes, they will use you and your money to line their pockets leaving you with the least desirable product obtained in the hobby whilst they cherrish their treasures (the most coveted products). So every time you want to cheap out and by a repro, just remember the top guys are laughing at you. Although that may be of little concern as well, but I hope this phrase will echo loudly when you're ready to spend YOUR money:

Junk in, Junk out.

This TOOL Sander ain't never gonna spill his guts about anything now that he's been pulverized on this thread. F him anyway.

___________________________________________
Sad thing is Sander does have one of the best JMC collections in the world, due to his family's connections with Jim Melton bitd. too bad he has reduced his reputation to road sludge over the years due to his repeated game-playing
_____________________________________________

Hey Tim, I need to be clued in here. If Sander is related to any of my distributors in the past I am unaware of it. We had two different distributors in the Netherlands. I have no knowlege of him reproducing any of out stuff. Hope he doesn't try it.
Jim Melton

Oops! One more story Sander has told that turns out not to be true. My bad, Jim. Dumb ol' me assumed Sander was telling the truth about his family's connection to you.

After putting all these things together you guys have brought to light, I cant see any reason why anybody would need 2 weeks to explain differences. Maybe 2 weeks is all the time needed to produce/sell all you can before you have to pull the rug out from under yourself so you are not totally ostricized from the bmx community. I am sure that is a done-deal already.

Jim Melton Bring back the brand so these guys can be Happy like back in the day.theres a big demand for JMC Goods!!Schwinn,GT,sold out JMC can put a dent in the loss of DYNO

Only 5 more days until the big unveiling!!!

Not your fault Tim. I'm glad you brought it up.

Jim

tic

toc

tic

toc

is today the official unveiling, or tomorrow?

who'da thunk it...the worlds BIGGEST tool is a Sander

Ya got a better chance of playin' ping pong with the Pope than this oxygen thief ownin' up to anything.

i was scheduled to play ping pong with the pope next week but he had to cancel cos sander was coming over to discuss the reproduction of the vatican.
yep its true, building an exact replica of the vatican, somewhere in fcukin asia, not real sure where

have we all forgotten about this, i was sure sander would have came through......... for shure,, he dutch you know
graeme

We have not forgotten. The dead horse is glue by now

[ October 15, 2006, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Reilley1 ]

Wow 17 pages of crud! just think how cool things would be if threads got this much positive attention about members builds,scores etc. I might start a hate thread about my collection

Not only is this topic glue but the plastic model is was used on is long since either broken or blown up with an M80.

I have a set of those faux Aerospeeds in hand for examination and documentation. After a few of us have the opportunity to examine them in hand, I'll post a thread to help everyone else in the community.

I'm sick right now, have to ship a bike out and have some personal business to tend to all this week, so I'm hoping to roll this thread out some time next week. We don't need Sander, the guy's a fraud. I just want to be 100% with the ID thread. For those who can't wait, the reproduction cranks are good, but not great.

thanks james for puting the foot work on exposing the fraud aerospeeds and thanks to all others for making this happen i mean the people who chased these fakes down no names need to be given once again many thanks

Thanx James! You're a model delinquent doing a valuable disservice to our community! (LOL). Seriously though, that's gonna save someone a lotta blown bucks someday, so definitely, you're a good guy for doing that. After that, if those were my cranks, I'd mark 'em as reps and stick 'em on a rider...eventually, they'd end up out of circulation for good, if ya know what I mean...Did I mention I'm pushing 200 lbs now?