Were the forks modified? BTW, you finally got me Tim. I am a Champion guy and have been waiting to see if you ever posted one. Very nice. What # is that frame?

BMX Prod made a run of 5" DeCosters, I had them on mine. Speedo and Redline(nickle, not the later PL forks) also made them.

Love those wheels. Another great build Tim!

When I bought my Champion, it had a pair of gen 1 Redline Proline forks on it. The dropouts had the triangle cutouts in them and I snapped them off. The bike sat for months until I finally found a pair of forks strong enough to put on it. After three months of phone calls and waiting for my special pair to arive, Jeff Bottema called my house to tell me he shipped them out. Very cool for a 12 year old to get a call from Jeff himself. They arrived with a 9" tube! I had to have them cut down and re-threaded but the were the best forks I ever owned. They had the extra 2-3" past the dropouts. It was stolen in the late 80's so my dream is to once again build the same bike I had as a young thrasher.
To me, Champions and Bottema's are the beefiest and strongest F&F's ever made. The best of their time.

SWEET!

Nice.......... Very Nice!!!!!

Extremely nice bike Tim love those old Champions. Can you please give some advice on the stem, manufacture, model, year etc?

Rockin' as always, TIM, takes me right back to my youth. Your collection is like a time machine. Looks like an original Red Line double clamp stem in super if not NOS condition, no? How about a photo?

Damn, a red line double clamp neck too! Thats 500 or more by it's self!

Evan / Cheez, thanks for the id on the stem does any one know the years in which these stems were manufactured. Cheers

nice three arrow .....

Tim, very nice !!! I'm so glad the 70's era is your choice !!!

Those Redline double clamps came out in 1977. Not correct on any Squareback in that form and doubtful on the Schwerma. There are earlier versions that would be much closer to being correct if you need to get real picky. Sure does look cool though! Great bike and a nice build.

In the early vintage collecting days it didn't get any cooler than a Schwerma Champion. Nomura's,Andy Pattersons even loop quads, they just can't come close for us 70s guys!

Nice job on the Champ. I think a 1.75 tire on the rear would really make it look cooler, just my opinion. As far as the neck being era correct, things were upgraded all the time as things broke or wore out so really it doesn't make a difference. I replaced stuff on my Champ all the time. I just wish mine was still that shiney.

BTW, what year were Champ forks made, I have a set on my other Schwerma Champ and I don't think they are era correct, I'd love to find something made around 1976 fork-wise, even if I have to extend the head tube.

Ashtabula. I remember seeing a pic of a group of racers all on Champions. Every bike had those forks.

They had those until Red Line then Speedo started making forks for them. My Red Line forks came from Brent Patteerson cause he started using Speedo forks.

Spike, what style dropouts on those Champ forks?

All I can say is the tubes are angled along the same angle as the dropouts.

The first time I saw a Champ was an indoor race in Santa Clara(I think) in either very, very late 75/early 76. John Wells and Pete Harrigan of Silver Shield were the first to race them but I will check with both of them when I get home from Japan to find out what the deal was. I also seem to remember some kinda custom headtube/headset adapter so you could run regular Red Lines, again, I'll ask around. Tim, I think you right about the number of frames, your frame is the highest SN that I have seen, mine is 187, when I saw John earlier this year he still had his and it was #189, he told me the original one he had Champion wanted back and this was the frame he got. Trying to remember back 30 yrs is getting tough.

[ July 16, 2006, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: spike ]

Tim, as I know you know, the details are the answer.

This is the stuff that websites like this are founded upon.

Thanks for sharing.

Was that Blue seat on it when you bought it? Nobody ran seats like that back then. Kind of Huffy for such an excellent bike! Champion is the only build I really like, but never built.

Tim, what's up? Never talked with you before. But now that you are showing the bike I love, I need to talk. Like I said before, I lost my Champion back in the 80's. I have another bike I kept all these years just because it had the same dropouts as the Champion. It's a Kenny Roberts. Let me ask you, do you know if Schwerma built these as well? I have always thought maybe he did as this was such a different style. You have any info on it?

i like the seat. it was on the bike when i got it, so i guess somebody ran a seat like that.

I think maybe everybody should stop worrying about what is "era correct" and maybe consider what is "rider/owner correct".....just an idea...

Yeah what SPIKE said...That Champion is now on my fav's. list. Major thumbs up Tim.

Everyone should build them how they want them. Absolutely!

Is it ok to comment or ask a question about a part or build moving forward?

[ July 17, 2006, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: BenOr ]

Nice bike, nice thread, interesting details... Those are the kind of threads i prefer, starting from an oldschool bike restoration, and then debating on the correct parts, the history of the brand, the riders...

My comment wasn't a dig but more of a who cares, sometimes I think guys are way to worried about something being "era correct". Remember, it was just a frame, not a whole bike so Champs were built with whatever parts were available/affordable at that time and/or year. That being said, I'm trying to get my 2nd Champ more like my original, I just need to find some forks for it cause the Champ forks that are on it just don't seem right and I'd prefer Red Line forks, it's what I'm used to, I'd like to keep it 76/77ish, everything else is pretty much like my original. Plus, parts got replaced or changed due to wearing out/breakage. Hey, I'm just an old guy rambling who happens to really dig Champs and Tim has a cool one.

The debate or discussion is good long as it's civil and about the bike not the person. Many of us do this before posting images.

IMO - The Champion is like an exotic euro MX bike. Brent’s bike was classic Champion in my minds eye. The seat is Troxel and undeserving of such a fine bike. Quilted and colored were on department store bikes. However, it is Tim’s bike he can have however he likes the bike. These are solely my opinions about this bike.

I'm sorry if I offended ya. It's just that guys are complaining about somethings that I think Tim said were on the bike when he got it, maybe the guy that sold it to Tim wanted/rode it that way, that's all I'm saying. Champs to me were THE ONLY frame to have and served me well through all kinds of abuse in the 70's. As far as a part being cheap or not, when ya crash the thing as much as I did, expensive parts get totaled just as much as cheap one. Again, didn't mean to offend ya Ben and your opinions are totally valid, hey, I said it should have a 1.75 rear tire because back then that was the norm.

Back to our regularly scheduled program:

Sweet bike Tim

just to clarify.

i bought this bike complete from the original owner. he told me at the time that nothing had been swapped out since he originally put it together.

the bike as you see it now is just like i got it parts-wise except for the wheels.

it had Simi Motomags on it when i bought it.

it had a thrashed blue fluted post, so i replaced it with a nice blue fluted post.

it had thrashed Union pedals, so i replaced them with nice Union pedals.

it had a blown out 20x2.125 Goodyear Eagle on the front, so i replaced it with another good used 20x2.125 (albeit a Cheng Shin). the original rear tire is still on the bike.

it came with the Red Line stem and Red Line victory bars. both still have the original stickers on them.

it came with the long Decoster fork.

the original, well-worn Oakley 1s - with the dirtbike tire "O" - are still on the bike.

some will recall that this frame had the downtube decals upside down. yes, UPSIDE DOWN. i don't suspect anyone else ran their decals upside down either. the decals were in very poor condition, washed out and faded. i replaced the decals and positioned them correctly.

the padset came with the bike. the stem pad is not shown in the pics so you can see the stem. the pad is a blue double clamp Mongoose pad.

btw.. the seat is NOT a Troxel. its a Yung Tung Industries, made in Taiwan, and is the original seat on the bike. its well broken in, worn to a nice patina with a couple cuts around the bottom edge.

[ July 17, 2006, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: TIM ]

all that said... fire away boys! smoke 'em if ya got 'em. i enjoy the repartee.

awesome build Tim, your stuff is always top notch!

Cool bike TIM!

Tim.
Schwerma, Champion, Kenny Roberts????? Any conection?

Doug Schwerma built the frame for Kenny Roberts' 1975 TZ750 Yamaha dirt track racer. as far as bmx connections, i don't know.

Niiiiccceeeee as always..as expected...Congrats !
C-Ya..
OM

Either KR & Patterson copied the dropout design of the Champion into the KR frame, or Schwerma built the frames for them.
KR and patterson changed the design to the Sentry model right around the time Schwerma killed himself.
Maybe that is a clue that he did build them. With him gone, they had to change the design and have someone else build them.
Who would know this kind of info? Is any of the Pattersons members of this site?

What about you OM? You know any history on these two frames?

ahhh, your builds suck and are 'all' wrong - and you have a bad attitude about everything - oh and you hate everybody cause your think your swifter then everybody ...... but damn-it I'll chill witcha any'ol time sucka ! bring that man a white russian and I'll take a black one - we don't discriminate





i still think the chain ring is the coolest part it sports .....


well next to the f/f that is .....

The coolest part are the Victory bars, best bars ever...
A Redline pair of forks would be better IMO, the ones with welded caps. They would fit well under those bars and stem. Except the color, that's right, in this case the Roger Decoster are better.
And as someone mentioned it, a 1.75 rear tire would look fine.

Those suggestions doesn't offend anyone, they are just part of the discussion, as discussion are part of any plan to restore a bike.



Just for your eyes, a pair of lovely Redline forks, taken from a vintagebmx member :