Right Tifo,

I visited one of the LBS near me that sells high end MTN bike stuff and a bit of BMX with the hopes of picking up a few components one of which was a Thomson Elite post....They wanted 90 bucks for it! That's about 29% more! I already knew that Dan's had it for $70. If it was $80 I may have actually bought it. That's a big difference for one component when you are building out a bike. I know that there is shipping involved but when you order a few things together it is reasonable and you save time and money! Just my 2 centavos.

I have a polished/silver one if you need it. I could use the black one for a build and was honestly going to swing into Dan's to pick one up. I could mail you this one and vice versa....

loopy813, why is anyone going to ask their LBS to order something. The LBS charges more, and if they have to order it it takes just as long for them to receive it. So not only do you have to wait for it to arrive you have to go out of your way to get to the shop. That may not sound like much of a hassle depending on where you live, but in a city it can be a hassle...especially when you work regular work hours. It tends to be a lot easier to order it yourself and have it show up to your door. Dans comp is waaaaaay easier for a lot of us.

[ April 13, 2006, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Ringer ]

Well, here's the deal, Loopy. I spread it around. I just bought a new 4X mountain bike from the shop I ride for...$1800. It's a Mongoose Eric Carter EC-X and normally goes for $2300-$2500, but we're on the grassroots team, and I get a discount because I ride for them.

I also just got a new rim from eBay. Not too long ago, I got a Dan's order. There are about 3 or 4 shops in the area I get stuff from on occasion, and a few mail order places I order from. The reason I spread it around is because I want a particular thing at the best price...when I built my race cruiser I must've got parts from 10 different places...including an LBS over an hour away in San Jose.

But I've got to tell you...if I didn't get 20% off at the shop, I probably wouldn't buy much there besides tubes. I race downhill, mountain cross, BMX, and I ride street. That's a lot of bikes to keep dialed in. Whether or not the internet is ruining the industry, I've got limited funds. It's true--it's hard for an LBS to keep afloat unless they carry what sells. In my area, that's "comfort bikes" and "hybrids," crap that I'm not interested in at all. I even have a good friend who had a shop specializing in downhill that went belly up. I bought a lot from him...but since I can afford to drop a few grand on a Santa Cruz V-10 every month, they didn't make it. What they needed were rental bikes for people to cruise in Golden Gate Park, and hybrids...but they were downhillers and wanted to sell high end downhill stuff, which has a very low demand.

So yeah, I feel your pain and I do patronize my LBS(es) fairly frequently. But sometimes it's just not worth my while to wade waist deep into comfort bikes and spandex shorts to have the counter guy look at me askance when I need a BMX part.

Well, for a lot of us, Sat. mornings were spent riding to the LBS (mine was Lake Shore Schwinn )to see and dream about owning a Mathews Monoshock, Red Line Squareback, Mongoose, the Cook Bros. Racing & Ashtabula "kits", the new black tuff wheels & Tuf-Neck stems. We would spend the money we mowed lawns for to lay-a-way a new stem, and the shop owners would help you out if you were short. LBSs would load up their vans on Sunday and take us across town to the track. And if our bikes messed up and couldn't be repaired at the track, had loaner bikes in the van
fMany of the first BMX tracks were started by the LBS, our was mainly started by Pedal Pushers (which was one of the to mail order houses for road bikes in the 70s & 80s) and the owner would start every moto with his green flag. Many of us had our 1st "real job" at the LBS and and proudly still promoted them long after we moved up to bigger support. When Free Style took off, we formed teams and performed with the heap of the LBS
So now you know why, many of us are willing to spend a few extra $$ with the ones who helped turn us into who we are today. Where would BMX have gone without the support of the LBSs?

that makes perfect sense, but then you were lucky enough to have a shop that cared. Sounds pretty cool Byron

The lbs's around here keep promising to start carrying BMX stuff again, but nothing yet.
This is all WalMarts doing! Carrying cheap crappy bikes for $50...and these farkin trick or treaters go in there and buy that sheet.
There I had to let it out.

Ask them to match Dan's. We usually try to keep our prices low, but if someone comes in and says I want that, but Dan's has it at a lower price, we will almost always match it (plus their shipping charge in some cases), sometimes we can't on their clearance stuff. If they won't match or come close, they aren't helping their cause. A sale with a lower markup is better than no sale. And helping out someone a lot of times will turn them into a life time customer.

Dan's isn't the devil, it helps people without alternatives. Hell, we even ordered from Dan's once. We had a kid buy a Free Agent Flying Fortress, even though we repeadly told him and his parents that it was going to be too much for him weight wise (small kid). They came back a couple days later and said he couldn't handle it. We took it back and gave them credit, he had his heart dead set on a bike that was out of stock from the manufacturer, but Dan's had. We called Dan's and ordered it and gave it to the kid, making no money. Hurt us that one day, but they have since probably spent 5k at our store.

If your LBS's won't go a little extra to help you out, then I can't say that you should shop there. There are bad shops, we get customers from them all the time who got fed up. But their are good shops in a lot of places that will provide a lot more help and insight then online places ever will. My stance is you should at least give them a chance first.

Agreed, all it takes is a personal touch from your LBS and you'll do all you can to give them business. Its the case with all retail in my mind. brick and mortar shops have the ability to create a relationship with their customer that will far outweigh a couple dollar price difference.

Walk into any shop in Houston these days, and it's MTB, hybrids, and high dollar roadies. They act like you're stupid for trying to find a quill stem, or anything bmx related. I had one LBS that I enjoyed going to, and he could get parts next day. Well, I walk into his shop about a month ago, and he literally tells me to throw a frame away, because he didn't have a headset to fit it. I have not been back there since.

Most shops will ONLY order parts about every two weeks, they let the orders build up until it's profitable for them. Nevermind that it might be the only part you need to complete a bike. So, when you order, you're looking at three weeks on average. That's not svc in my book??,,,,OS

After being in the bike biz for almost 25 years, all I can say is what do you expect?

Customer loyalty is almost non-existent with the internet machine and all - people come in, use you for fittings, knowledge, catalogs, then go online or to Ebay to get what they need.

All of you guys have been around bikes for just as long, yet you don't have a LBS that you're hooked into?

Besides, there's never been much reason for a guy to stay in the biz long enough to add much value to a customers experience. With a 30% or less margin on bikes, millions of parts, and seasonal fluctuations - the wages suck.

The best I ever did was 40k a year as a manager, then I'd beg and plead to find help willing to work for $12 an hour and show up on time (that's why I'm into computers now, and not there to lend my knowledge and experience).

Sorry you're having problems with the "High School Burnout" - obviously some undereducated slacker who could care less about you're 20 year old dinosaur of a BMX bike (cynical).

I just ordered spokes from a long-time resto guy and had no problems getting what I wanted. I don't care how much they cost or how long it took, I know he'll be fair (but expensive) and get me exactly what I need.

You say 12 an hour like it's a bad thing, lol. I would have been there on time, and work my *** off for that money for doing something I already enjoy doing?,,,,OS

Dans has been known to do that sort of thing before. Sometimes they'll purposely send you the wrong color of a product, esp. if its unpopular and hard to unload, because they KNOW that most of the time people will just keep the color they don't want rather than go to the trouble and expense of returning it. I ordered a gun metal gray HB Deebo from them in 1999, and they sent me a chrome one. My friend Kent ordered a Fishbone UFO in black, they sent him a purple one. Both times, the guy on the phone told us "Can't you just paint it yourself?"

Dans does have good selection and decent sale items, but some sketchy issues have ALWAYS existed with them. Don't even get me started about the T1 shirts.....

I hope I don't get slammed for cross posting, but I thought this would work here, too. (There's a similar thread regarding finding a freewheel in the racing section.)

WARNING: Speculation time!! (YMMV)

I think that Mountain Biking pushed BMX out of local bike shops. Here's my theory:

Back when we were younger, if you went to a bike shop, there were really only two types of bikes to purchase, Road bikes and BMX bikes. (Sure, there were others, but not much).
Most road bikes are too big for a kid to ride, so BMX was about the only option. Although most parents (mine did) probably felt the BMX bike was really a "kids" bike, they new that their son/daughter wouldn't fit on a road bike comfortably and/or would tear it up for general riding. So, BMX was popular and a LBS stocked a large supply with various price ranges and models.
Then mountain bikes became popular.
Now, mom and dad would see a mountain bike with it's big wheels and think, "This isn't one of those kiddie BMX bikes" They came in smaller sizes and, more importantly, had wider rims and beefier frames making them less likely to get beat up. (Plus, they were generally cheaper than a road bike). Hence, the LBS started slowing phazing out BMX bikes and stocked more mountain bikes. (To this day, a bike shop will have probably 2 to 3 times more mountain bikes than anything else!)
This, along with other factors, contributed to the dark days of BMX from which it never recovered fully.

The current generation of BMXers has a few forces working against them.
1) Often, they can't go into a LBS and pick up a nice BMX bike. If the shop DOES carry BMX, often it's just one or two manufacturers, not really much of a selection. Sure, they might be able to order you something, but that's not the same as touching and experiencing the bikes in person. Besides, if you can order it from the bike shop....
2) Why not just buy it off the 'net? Remember, the average BMXer now has grown up with the internet and internet mail order at their disposal. It's what they're use to and comfortable with. If they have to order stuff from a bike shop and wait, why not just order it from the 'net and probably save a bit of $$? The added benefit is they don't have to listen to a high pressure sales tactic to not buy a "kids" bike but, instead, buy an "adult" bike.

I, personally, doubt we'll ever see bike shops carry BMX like they did 20 years ago.

From what I'm reading in this post is a chicken and the egg scenario. LBS says "Buy more BMX and we'll carry more" while consumers say "Carry more BMX and we'll buy more".

(BTW, I'm not trying to bash Moutain Biking at all.)

-Rob

Case Closed.

Very good theory. Wal Mart is carrying road bikes now!?!?! Has anyone noticed that? Lance Armstrong singlehandedly revived an entire bike genre. Sad part is, most shops in Houston are changing over to Hybrids and roadies, and dropping cruisers and bmx bikes like day old bread.,,,,OS

Spandex, skinny tires, and shaved legs. WTH?? haha.

It's all about supply & demand . I just looked through the bike section @ Target & saw a full line of Schwinn riding apparel .tools etc . Places like this aren't helping the LBS as well . Mongoose gloves @ Target ? Oshmans, Sun & Ski Sports , Academy. Here in H- town there are mabye about 4 really good bike shops(Road,ATB,BMX) as opposed to at least 10-15 BITD . And no I won't shave my legs & turn to the dark side . JK

I dislike dan's for the sole reason that they are dooping kids. Most newer riders are "Hardcore" that order from dans, "Dude dans only sell's bmx, there cool" Little do they know they are paying into the corperate hands of dooms day america.

Fact: I buy all my parts direct from the company or threw our LBS.
Fact: Had the owner of the store Call empirebmx for a spoke size. he told them what was up, they told him the size and we got the wheel built.
Fact: LBS cannot stock all the brands and all the colors. Do you have any idea how many items Odyssey has alone? hundreds!

When I owned my bmx shop, it hurt when local kids parents would drop hundreds on stuff from dans....it's so easy...with a credit card. Then the kids would come in and ask me to install there new cranks for free.

That sucks Alexi, I feel bad for you.
The real truth is that just like the music industry has changed dramatically, all businesses must step it up, or lock up the doors. The business model has changed in America. The internet is going to kill all small business soon unless they jump in and set up a website as well. If Dan's can do it, why can't anyone else? You can if you want to survive in the new era. Things change...either you adapt, or you go the way of the DYNOsaurs. I'm not trying to be mean, just stating the facts. Houston used to have so many bike shops, music stores, comic book/card shops, now try to find some. We don't even have a decent record shop to buy all the new vinyl coming out...I DJ on the side as well. I have to get just about everything online now. Go into one of the LBS here and buy yourself a nice STEEL overseas built tank of a BMX/Freestyle bike. You want to buy a USA chromoly ride, GOOD LUCK!
Everything is disappearing year by year. Sadly online is the new way to buy and sell anything in this country.

Yes, $12 an hour is a good wage in many parts. Minneapolis has a pretty high standard of living - although not as bad as NY or the like. But that's what it costs to get someone to work around here. Houses here are pretty expensive by some standards (avg. 250k) and rentals are just as bad.

We also have some of the highest taxes and energy costs in the country, so although wages are high - it doesn't go very far.

I know there are many reasons why a LBS won't work - but just about every shop in the country has a Quality Bike Parts (QBP) catalog (they carry everything under the sun - sans some certain brands) - so you may just step into a few shops and ask to see the consumer catalog and look for what you need.

Shawn is exactly correct, just about every shop can order just about ANYTHING through Quality Bicycle Products! I have a few friends that work at QBP and that place rocks. There new warehouse additon is ultra sweet and they are growing by leaps and bounds... I am kind of surprised that shops don't offer up the option to browse the QBP catalog (?) Then again, the internet is tough to beat for ease of browsing and simplicity. Sorry for so much stating the obvious...

Ah, 250 K for an "expensive" house. 250 K won't get you a moderately-priced outhouse in this town...

Not to mention you need 1100 speeds to ride those hills. Hell walking up them was bad enough, lol.,,,,OS

250k would buy you a brand new 2200-2300 sqft on 1-2 acres here in GA.

In the sticks, maybe. Move a little closer into Atlanta and see how little that quarter mil buys you!

darn venomz I DJ on the side as well ..... I was going to say the same about record stores . There were so many cool record stores BITD but the internet ,BB,Wal,Circuit City , Amazon help kill the little guy , not to mention RENT IN an area where property values are going up near our downtown area . yes adaptation is the key..... .look@ us DJ's who are now mixing W/ CD's & laptops ! VINYL WILL ALWAYS RULE IN MY BOOK AS I HAVE THE SKILLS TO BACK IT UP AS WELL !