Everyone always talks about the 400 series non pinch model as being the first. Look at these. Anybody have them in their collection?
Full Version: Flight Crank History. Ever see these???
This is a scan from my Red Line catalog from 78'.
Everyone always talks about the 400 series non pinch model as being the first. Look at these. Anybody have them in their collection?
Everyone always talks about the 400 series non pinch model as being the first. Look at these. Anybody have them in their collection?
prototype, never produced.
the same crank with another decal is in the 1979 Schwinn catalog.
the same crank with another decal is in the 1979 Schwinn catalog.
There's a new one for me...though, I'm not as old as Randy...lol
and you never will be
quote:and everyone who keeps repeating that is 100% WRONG.
Everyone always talks about the 400 series non pinch model as being the first.
400 series cranks were made by Sugino as a price point(ie..CHEAP) crank set and they had a square tapered spindle. They came out several years after the introduction of the Flight Crank which was rechristened the 401 to avoid confusion with the 400 series.
The 400 and 401 designation were part numbers in the Redline catalog. THe 1980 REdline catalog part number for Flight cranks were #401
The Flight crank ALWAYS had a splined spindle whereas the 400 series was ALWAYS a tapered spindle.
I know that I will write this over and over and over but people will still keep mixing them up.
THe image is of the evolution of the Flight crank from the first prototype to the 401 (with pinch bolt) and nothing shown used a tapered spindle like the 400 series.
Bill,
That is all we needed...end of discussion.
That is all we needed...end of discussion.
So why are the pair I posted not in the evolution photo? And the first pair they show are not splined.
Bill, are there two different non-pinch models? A Sugino tapered spindle model and a non-pinch splined model? Or are all the non-pinch arms just the Sugino tapered spindle models? If so, why would anyone want those if they were the cheap ones?
I still like the look of the ones I posted. I love the shape and the way the decal looks on them. I wish they did make them. If it was a prototype, there must be some floating around.
Bill, are there two different non-pinch models? A Sugino tapered spindle model and a non-pinch splined model? Or are all the non-pinch arms just the Sugino tapered spindle models? If so, why would anyone want those if they were the cheap ones?
I still like the look of the ones I posted. I love the shape and the way the decal looks on them. I wish they did make them. If it was a prototype, there must be some floating around.
The first pair in my above image were splined, similar to Profile crank. Byron Friday who rode/worked for Redline at the time, broke his ankle the very first time he rode on the prototypes. So Linn Kastan went through several variations before releasing the cranks in 1980. The arms pictured in your 1979 catalog shot were among three styles that showed in magazine ads and catalogs. The 1979 Midwest Schwinn show a set completely different from the ones in catalog.
Redline advertised three different versions of the Flight Crank in 1978 and 1979 but the cranks were released into production until 1980. THe first production set is pictured below labled as first generation.
The below image is from the June 1978 BMXA. THese cranks are the second version of prototypes. Despite the ad, they were never released.
[ March 11, 2006, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Bill Curtin ]
Redline advertised three different versions of the Flight Crank in 1978 and 1979 but the cranks were released into production until 1980. THe first production set is pictured below labled as first generation.
The below image is from the June 1978 BMXA. THese cranks are the second version of prototypes. Despite the ad, they were never released.
[ March 11, 2006, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Bill Curtin ]
Excerpt from the Linn Kastan interview
[ March 11, 2006, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Bill Curtin ]
quote:
VintageBMX.com: When did you start getting the idea for the flight cranks?
LK: I started on the flight cranks around late 1976, and there was a bunch of generations that I started from the beginning.
LK: And late 1977--I think it was that I went to Japan as a guest of Shimano along with one of the Cook brothers, who were the first ones who copied our fork by the way. They're not real high on my list. And a guy named Gerry something that had a place called Laguna Distributors. Chuck Raudman from Skyway. A guy from CYC, Terry somebody or other. And when I came back from there, I was so impressed by what the small Japanese companies, I mean they were just little tiny hole-in-the-wall shops just like we were. There was none like Shimano, there was no big factories that were doing anything. And I got real excited about doing things over there instead of making frames and forks over here and then importing 35 parts to make a bicycle. I got the idea that what I'd like to do was make some kind of a deal with a small factory over there. Teach them how to make frames and forks for me, and let them assemble complete bicycles for me.
So, when I got back from there, my partner and I disagreed on that so I bought him out of Redline in 1978, and I was working on those cranks for about a year and a half before that and he had such little faith in that particular product that he let me have that for free, I didn't have to buy that from him. It turned out to be our best product ever, actually.
VintageBMX.com: So you went through several generations of them.
LK: Oh, yeah. Half a dozen. The first one lasted about a half an hour.
VintageBMX.com: Byron Friday told us he broke an ankle on one of them.
LK: He probably did because he didn't have a whole lot of caution. We were really feeling our way along. It was very difficult to come up with what I wanted to come up with because the existing parts that we had to utilize. The spindle sizes because of the bearings and all that stuff, were so small that I really couldn't put much of any size in there.
VintageBMX.com: In the June 1978 Bicycle Motocross Action there's a Redline ad that shows the picture of the tubular flight cranks. And its rounded at the end by the pedal boss. It looks like it's made out of rectangular tubing. And there is an actual bolt at the end, like a pinch bolt. "Newest edition of the Pro Set, available now in seven inch. Lighter than the most popular three piece alloy crank, one bolt quick change operation, uses any sprocket." Is how the ad reads. And then the next one we've been able to find in catalogs showed up in a Schwinn catalog from1979 and that didn't have the pinch bolt and had a more conventional style rounded type, rectangular tubing.
LK: There were a bunch of prototypes; I think we made a couple of hundred that we used for testing and on the tours, and just to kind of find out what we were doing; and I really didn't get into it until I found somebody that could make that proper tubing the way I wanted it; and then that's what launched us. We couldn't make enough of those for ten years, it seemed like.
[ March 11, 2006, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Bill Curtin ]
The 400 series were called "Flight" by REDLINE not just the 401's.
In 1979 myself,Frank Orlandini, and Larry Petrugilo had a co-factory ride with Red Line thru Ed's Bike Shop here in Vineland,NJ.
When Frank beat the "un-beatable" Eddy King at the '79 Craigmuer NBA National, Linn Kasten was gonna bump him to full-factory and flew him out to the LA Sports Arena NBA National. While spending the week with Linn, he hooked Frank up with those early cranks shown in Slayer's catalog post.
That's the way I remember those cranks, only Frank's were painted...and I think they did crack.
When Frank beat the "un-beatable" Eddy King at the '79 Craigmuer NBA National, Linn Kasten was gonna bump him to full-factory and flew him out to the LA Sports Arena NBA National. While spending the week with Linn, he hooked Frank up with those early cranks shown in Slayer's catalog post.
That's the way I remember those cranks, only Frank's were painted...and I think they did crack.
Very cool info Bill! Thanks!
I have been waiting for this comprehensive info on flights for a while!
I almost hate to do this, but my first attempt at buying flights I got burned by prolines. Where does proline come into all this? The single pinch prolines look similar, and I am learning they get advertized as Flights more often than Sting Comps get advertized as Stings.
Do I dare ask?
[ March 11, 2006, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]
I have been waiting for this comprehensive info on flights for a while!
I almost hate to do this, but my first attempt at buying flights I got burned by prolines. Where does proline come into all this? The single pinch prolines look similar, and I am learning they get advertized as Flights more often than Sting Comps get advertized as Stings.
Do I dare ask?
[ March 11, 2006, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]
The early versions of Redline cranks used a 28 thread BB like a one piece crank would use. They have a spindle with ends like the new ones but the center will be larger and threaded. This piece was like a manufactured sleave that was welded onto a spindle like the modern sets use. If the cranks have a sealed BB and a spindle that is the same dia. all the way across they are newer but still may be US made. Redline had this style made in washington for about a decade with several styles through the years. Anyone know if the new style euro bb will fit the 90's spindle?
Thanks guys. I guess that answers that question.
I might have to get me some of those old Red Line decals for my arms to make them look different.
I might have to get me some of those old Red Line decals for my arms to make them look different.
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