Full Version: how many of you build your own wheels??
im thinking of learning how to do this myself.any advice would be of great help.any ideas on equipment or tools?thanx all.
I do. All you need is a spoke wrench, and the desire to master it.
Sheldon Brown's wheel building site is very helpful. Once you do 1, it's no biggie.
[ March 11, 2006, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: Randy ]
Sheldon Brown's wheel building site is very helpful. Once you do 1, it's no biggie.
[ March 11, 2006, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: Randy ]
Lots of theories about wheel building. Don't let anyone over complicate the process. I learn things much better by observation than reading and trying. My two cents would be to find someone who is willing to take some time with you and correct your mistakes AS you make them. Building a wheel wrong or partially building and taking to a shop so they can tell you to take it apart and start over really takes the fun out of learning. Find a shop that has a Phil Wood cutting machine, they will be able to hook you up with any length you need for those oddball custom jobs. good luck, Sean
I've been building my own and many other peoples for years and years.
I'm about to start on a set of wheels. I found the Sheldon brown site very helpful. Fingers crossed XXXXX
I just started to work on my own. I used the Sheldon Brown site and had great luck. I also kept a professionally built wheel around so I could study it. Take your time and pay attention, it isn't that hard.
Trueing them is the fun part. You really need to pay attention when do that.
I got myself a load of cold beers in, used a ready laced wheel as a template, and perciviered until i sorted it, took me about 2 hours to lace my first rim, then about 30 mins per rim after i had figured it out,
Still never got round to truing my own rims though !!
Its just a question of learning the spoke pattern !
Still never got round to truing my own rims though !!
Its just a question of learning the spoke pattern !
yep, best advise is keep a wheel on hand for ref. took some time the first time, after that, it's pretty easy. next thing you know you're trying different spoke patterns. truing is the same thing, it took a while the first time until you figure it out, nothing to it after that. been building my own for over 10 years, i actually really enjoy it as i also build my own mtb and road bike wheels. good luck and if you can find someone to walk you through, that's even better!
john
john
I do and saved lot's of cash by building the wheels myself.
I also use a wheel for reference to get started.
I also use a wheel for reference to get started.
1 Skip 6 holes in the hub for 3 cross. Skip 8 holes in the hub for 4 cross. Skip 10 holes in the hub for 5 cross pattern.
2 Never cross them at the valve stem. What else is there? The rest is a figure it out as you go learning process.
Spoke calculators blow, and the guys at the shops blow at it too. Beware.
It is easy and fun, and you can watch TV and drink beer while doing it.
Go for it. It is part of the fun.
2 Never cross them at the valve stem. What else is there? The rest is a figure it out as you go learning process.
Spoke calculators blow, and the guys at the shops blow at it too. Beware.
It is easy and fun, and you can watch TV and drink beer while doing it.
Go for it. It is part of the fun.
Ted, why do you think spoke calculators suck? The wheelsmith system is the best thing invented since the Phil machine. Between the two of them you can pair up any hubs with rims in any cross you want and have the length come out perfect.
Seann, Not sure I've tried the "Wheelsmith system", or know exactly what it is, or the phil machine for that matter.... But I have simply had too many wrong spokes ordered from LBS's. And when I try to use the spoke calculators online, by the time you get past all the metric stuff, and guessing where to take the measurements from, the number seems to be bogus.
I think that they are mathamatically correct. But I think the instructions, and over complicated nature of most of the ones I have seen, make them for someone who does it everyday.
Do you calculate from the center of the hole? Do you calculate from the inside of the rim? Offsets? Etc.
The last set I ordered, they showed up 3/8 inch too long, and the LBS did the calcs. I wanted 3 cross. They worked great at 5 cross.......lol
I could have just taken a ruler and estimated, and said give me some 7 1/4 inch spokes and been right on the money.....lol
Teach me too, I am all ears.....lol
[ March 11, 2006, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]
I think that they are mathamatically correct. But I think the instructions, and over complicated nature of most of the ones I have seen, make them for someone who does it everyday.
Do you calculate from the center of the hole? Do you calculate from the inside of the rim? Offsets? Etc.
The last set I ordered, they showed up 3/8 inch too long, and the LBS did the calcs. I wanted 3 cross. They worked great at 5 cross.......lol
I could have just taken a ruler and estimated, and said give me some 7 1/4 inch spokes and been right on the money.....lol
Teach me too, I am all ears.....lol
[ March 11, 2006, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]
Ted, the Phil Wood spoke machine is a very cool tool.
>>>Link to Phil Wood pdf<<<
We keep pretty much every size imaginable on hand at the shop I work for. This is the wheelbuilding area of our Service Lab. All those square holes in the back wall house a different size spoke. Wheelbuilder nirvana!
>>>Link to Phil Wood pdf<<<
We keep pretty much every size imaginable on hand at the shop I work for. This is the wheelbuilding area of our Service Lab. All those square holes in the back wall house a different size spoke. Wheelbuilder nirvana!
thanx to all,i think this summer im gonna give it a go.im tired of payin out the poopie hole for wheelbuilding.the lbs near me wanted to charge me 20 bucks just to clean and repack bearings. now how much is a spoke cutter? i really want to get into the full aspect of it.
Be prepared to sell your car for a Phil machine. Ted, the guys at the shop near me charge .50 per spoke ($36) for a pair of wheels and they came out perfect, right to the bottom of the slot in the nipple after final tension.
don't forget the little OCD details -
pulling spokes go on the inside
align the hub & rim labels (so you can read them all from one vantage point)
.
True them -
> pluck spokes like a guitar string. Dead tone is the loose one.
> Chase low spots out... start at two spokes in middle of the low. L & R... loosen a bit. Then loosen #2 L the same. Then #2 R the same. Repeat for #3R&L and so on out to the end. (can to opposite for high spot but start at ends and work to middle - thghtening of course)
> Squeeze parallel spokes all the way around the wheel - releases wind up.
> When loosening a spoke, turn little past where you want... just a tiny fart... then tighten back. Helps keep correct tension.
pulling spokes go on the inside
align the hub & rim labels (so you can read them all from one vantage point)
.
True them -
> pluck spokes like a guitar string. Dead tone is the loose one.
> Chase low spots out... start at two spokes in middle of the low. L & R... loosen a bit. Then loosen #2 L the same. Then #2 R the same. Repeat for #3R&L and so on out to the end. (can to opposite for high spot but start at ends and work to middle - thghtening of course)
> Squeeze parallel spokes all the way around the wheel - releases wind up.
> When loosening a spoke, turn little past where you want... just a tiny fart... then tighten back. Helps keep correct tension.
I wish...There is no-way I would ever have the patience to do that.
always been afraid to do my own wheels until i got to this site. theres some good links here on some other wheel building threads. now my girlfriend and i both have been building wheels. takes a bit of patience on the first and second wheel. but after that its easy. just to be sure I brought my first wheel into the LBS to see if it was tenioned correctly, after that I was confident enough to do that myself
I just built my first wheel in about 25yrs, messed up the first time, thought the spokes were too long and went to a bike shope to get the right ones only to find out that I did a cross 3 instead of a cross 4, felt stupid. It came out alright but the rim I used was a slightly dinged and flat spotted Araya 7B so it took some time to get the hop out and get it true but I think it'll ride fine. Now I'm gonna re spoke my radial lace front wheel cause the spokes are pretty rusted up, I'm told I need 165mm spoke, the LBS didn't have them. The hunt is on...
i recently bought a r.k. "spokey" brand spoke wrench. it wraps around three sides of the nipple, like a line wrench wraps around a brass pipe fitting. i love this tool and totally recommend it.
If also just started saving money by lacing my own wheels. All the best advice has been giving. One, keep a built wheel close by. Two make sure you have the right size spokes (my local bike shop does a good job take the rim and hub with you and tell them the cross pattern). Three and the most important is patience. Good luck and have fun. The satisfaction of building your own wheels makes the completed build that much sweeter
I just bought a set of rims and hubs from different sources. When I went to LBS to buy spokes I jokingly said to the shop owner that I would be back for him to check (fix) my work he went nuts, and said $30.00 to lace them or $50.00 to cut out my mistake and relace them. He was so arrogant, and I'm so pig headed that there was no way I wouldn't build them myself! They came out great. I used Sheldon Brown also.
The easy part is the lacing of the wheel. I showed my little girl (who was 7 at the time) and she did one on her own. It took her a little bit of time but she interlaced the spokes and got it correct.
The hard part and the part that takes years of experience and why master wheel builders charge extra is the tightening and tuning of the wheel to insure that the wheel is not just tensioned right but also will stay true after several 100s of mile. Layers of tensioning, prestressing spokes and the overall prep and care of the wheel is were you spend money on. I learned from the one of the best, Jim Langley (Former Bicycling Magazine editor and USCF mechanic) and although I am not anywhere at his level, I can safely say that wheel building is not just reading a book, lacing the wheel, and throwing tension on the spokes.
From a bike shop point of view, I always hated when someone brought in a wheel to have it "just checked" This "check would often involve either taking all the tension off and starting from scratch or having the customer return the wheel on a weekly basis to have retued. Perhaps the shop you went to was arrogant, but believe me, it's far easier to start from scratch.
The hard part and the part that takes years of experience and why master wheel builders charge extra is the tightening and tuning of the wheel to insure that the wheel is not just tensioned right but also will stay true after several 100s of mile. Layers of tensioning, prestressing spokes and the overall prep and care of the wheel is were you spend money on. I learned from the one of the best, Jim Langley (Former Bicycling Magazine editor and USCF mechanic) and although I am not anywhere at his level, I can safely say that wheel building is not just reading a book, lacing the wheel, and throwing tension on the spokes.
From a bike shop point of view, I always hated when someone brought in a wheel to have it "just checked" This "check would often involve either taking all the tension off and starting from scratch or having the customer return the wheel on a weekly basis to have retued. Perhaps the shop you went to was arrogant, but believe me, it's far easier to start from scratch.
I build my own wheels too. I prefer this guide:
http://www.gsportbmx.co.uk/custom/wheel_build/wheels.html
http://www.gsportbmx.co.uk/custom/wheel_build/wheels.html
Yep, Cuda, that's the site! Found it after Sheldon's and much prefer its simplicity.
I want one of those t-shirts. Who knows a source?
I want one of those t-shirts. Who knows a source?
Yep That site is another I've been studying. He a funny bugger too! He makes it look easy! I even bought a huge coffee mug for the job! lol
wow cuda, i like that site.i agree the guy definately has a sense of humor about him.wonder if the torch is for lighting cigars or to keep the cat away.lol.
GSport rips. The tea tip is best. Go look at the tutorial on installing a grind disc -- slick. I'd keep a torch by my couch, too.
You guys are f&*(%^ nuts!
Don't do it yourself! It's dangerous!
(Don't take the car! You'll kill yourself!)
Let Thumperpilot do it!
Let Reilley1 do it!
While you're at it.
Could you put back together my freewheel
and derailer I disassembled? LOL!
C'mon you guys.
Let someone else do it.
Then we can all go to the strip club!
Hahahaha!
(Just joking....... or am I?)
(This was for laughs)
Don't do it yourself! It's dangerous!
(Don't take the car! You'll kill yourself!)
Let Thumperpilot do it!
Let Reilley1 do it!
While you're at it.
Could you put back together my freewheel
and derailer I disassembled? LOL!
C'mon you guys.
Let someone else do it.
Then we can all go to the strip club!
Hahahaha!
(Just joking....... or am I?)
(This was for laughs)
quote:Still waiting for the funny part
This was for laughs
quote:That was it
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This was for laughs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Still waiting for the funny part
See Reilley1,
I needed you to step in for the punch line.
Were a comedy team.
You're Heckel
I'm Jerk-el.
Wocka wocka wocka!
-
-
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Anyone remember the article on "Cross 4 Wheel Lacing" in BMX Action?
I had a set of wheels built like that once. Something like there would be minimal side flex if I recall.
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Reilley1,
I'll have know "I took apart those wheels all by myself." Except no one told me to take off my freewheel before I started taking out spokes.....
It's ok. Nothing that a vicegrip on the center of the hub couldn't fix.
Heh heh heh!
I needed you to step in for the punch line.
Were a comedy team.
You're Heckel
I'm Jerk-el.
Wocka wocka wocka!
-
-
-
Anyone remember the article on "Cross 4 Wheel Lacing" in BMX Action?
I had a set of wheels built like that once. Something like there would be minimal side flex if I recall.
-
-
Reilley1,
I'll have know "I took apart those wheels all by myself." Except no one told me to take off my freewheel before I started taking out spokes.....
It's ok. Nothing that a vicegrip on the center of the hub couldn't fix.
Heh heh heh!
I build all my own wheels & do it for others too...
I started working in a bike shop when I was 13...after I'd been there a few months, the owner of the store decided I needed to learn to build wheels.
So, for 2 WEEKS STRAIGHT (!!!!) all I did when I got to work after school, was build wheels. This was in '85, so it was before the spoke calculators...you had to check measurements in the 'Sutherland Book' & do the calculations by hand...
Each day he'd give me a set of hubs & rims & I had to do the rest, from start to finish. Then he'd check them for trueness/roundness. Then I'd take them apart & start over. That's all I did for 2 weeks...other than empty the trash.
But in the end, I'd like to think I build a pretty nice set of wheels now, so I'm very appreciative that he took the time to make me learn it...
I started working in a bike shop when I was 13...after I'd been there a few months, the owner of the store decided I needed to learn to build wheels.
So, for 2 WEEKS STRAIGHT (!!!!) all I did when I got to work after school, was build wheels. This was in '85, so it was before the spoke calculators...you had to check measurements in the 'Sutherland Book' & do the calculations by hand...
Each day he'd give me a set of hubs & rims & I had to do the rest, from start to finish. Then he'd check them for trueness/roundness. Then I'd take them apart & start over. That's all I did for 2 weeks...other than empty the trash.
But in the end, I'd like to think I build a pretty nice set of wheels now, so I'm very appreciative that he took the time to make me learn it...
I too am thinking of learning the wheel building skill. I have three sets of wheels to build for different projects. I did build one set BITD. I laced them correctly but I didn't have a truing stand so they were never quite perfect.
I've got some Femco steel "heavy duty" wheels coming from an eBay purchase that I'll need to build... I'll be refering to this thread for sure.
Thanks you guys for all the help!
Thanks you guys for all the help!
I encourage everyone to build their own wheels. Nothing quite like riding on a set you did yourself. I use "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt as my wheelbuilding reference. Great book - easy to understand lacing/truing method, and lots of good wheel theory.
Now, for the advanced wheelbuilders, try this one. Lace your next set so that you can read the label on the hub when looking thru the valve hole of the rim. The old man who taught me to build wheels was a perfectionist, and it's the way I learned. Sounds easy, but don't you believe it.
For spoke length, find a LBS that has access to the Bike'alog database. Their spoke length calculator is excellent. It has almost every rim and hub measurement known to man contained within, and makes figuring spoke length a snap.
Now, for the advanced wheelbuilders, try this one. Lace your next set so that you can read the label on the hub when looking thru the valve hole of the rim. The old man who taught me to build wheels was a perfectionist, and it's the way I learned. Sounds easy, but don't you believe it.
For spoke length, find a LBS that has access to the Bike'alog database. Their spoke length calculator is excellent. It has almost every rim and hub measurement known to man contained within, and makes figuring spoke length a snap.
Billn, I too had a perfectionist that taught me to build...
"Hub labels should read like normally (L to R) & should be visible through the vavle-hole"
I tried reading the Jobst book, but I could never get into it...I load all the spokes into hub before I start lacing it into the rim. That 1 spoke at a time thing isn't for me...
"Hub labels should read like normally (L to R) & should be visible through the vavle-hole"
I tried reading the Jobst book, but I could never get into it...I load all the spokes into hub before I start lacing it into the rim. That 1 spoke at a time thing isn't for me...
For the last 2 nights, I have been trying to lace up a 28h wheel w/Kawasaki BX-200 spokes (black) and Kawi frt hub. I am using my Daughters 28h girlie BMX-type bike and Kawi owner's manual for pics as a guide. After 2 nights, I only have 2 spokes in! Even my Kids took one look and said, "THAT looks confusing" (it is...)
After failing to lace wheels properly using Sheldons method. I tried something else. Before I move on let me say the Sheldon instructions did get me to complete a set of wheels with the proper lacing procedure being shown to follow. However, the lack of expertise, the lack of proper tools and not realizing the overall importance of every little detail and step not mentioned did prove to be a big negative when it came to the end result of my first wheels. I am sure I would of made due not knowing every detail, thinking my wheels were great, whistling around town and at the track never scared about the fact that I had two taco supreme bombs under me waiting to blow. I met someone here on these boards that helped me out a lot with my wheels. He offered to lace set of wheels for me so I said sure. Especially since they were for one of my Uniblade forks and I need it to be spot on. I sent off hubs and rims. What I got back was the shiniest spoked, smoothest and straightest wheels I can remember being on. Those were for a restore. I soon learned everything I was missing from my first attempt through e-mails after I thanked him. Needless to say I never rode the wheels I built again. Here are some shots of my wheels on a restore and the lastest set of cruiser wheels that I race. I have the luck of getting my wheels back with every spoke individually polished as well as the rims polished out a touch. Service. Let me just say, please do not think building wheels is not that big of a deal. When I found out all the stuff I missed I realized I could have crashed from failure. And after realizing everything that can be done to improve the longevity and integrity of a wheel set I will never go with another builder. You get straight up service with a lesson. Most of all you feel safe. Contact Dave Fisher. That is his user name here on Vintage. BMX'er for life, Shop Owner.
[ March 16, 2006, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: KastanKillector ]
[ March 16, 2006, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: KastanKillector ]
CS43,
Different strokes...
I get TOTALLY confused if I drop all of the spokes at once. Dropping 4 times per wheel seems much easier for me.
I'm happy I had a perfectionist teach me how to be a bike mechanic. Nothing peeves me more than a sloppy build - cables not trimmed/routed correctly, tire lables not lined up with the valve, bolts not greased, that kind of thing. When someone is paying you to baby their baby, it deserves the best.
Different strokes...
I get TOTALLY confused if I drop all of the spokes at once. Dropping 4 times per wheel seems much easier for me.
I'm happy I had a perfectionist teach me how to be a bike mechanic. Nothing peeves me more than a sloppy build - cables not trimmed/routed correctly, tire lables not lined up with the valve, bolts not greased, that kind of thing. When someone is paying you to baby their baby, it deserves the best.
The photo above shows the intent in my original post.
If you look at 2 parallel spokes in the above pix, you see that there are 6 spoke holes in the hub between the parallel spokes. You also see that each of those 2 spokes crosses another spoke 3 times.
If you were to skip 8 holes between parallel spokes at the hub, you would have a 4 cross pattern.
skip 10, and you have a 5 cross pattern.
As far s dropping spokes in, I like to drop the outside spokes in all at once. It is easy to insert a spoke from inside to outside, but once half the wheel is laced it becomes difficult to drop the ones in from the outside as they get tangled in the laced up spokes.
The rest is repetition skip 1 on the rim, skip (6,8,or10) on the hub, over and over again. just keep making your parallel pairs all the way around.
So whether you are looking at the hub, or the rim, you are always going every other hole, or skipping 6, 8, or 10.
[ March 20, 2006, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]
If you look at 2 parallel spokes in the above pix, you see that there are 6 spoke holes in the hub between the parallel spokes. You also see that each of those 2 spokes crosses another spoke 3 times.
If you were to skip 8 holes between parallel spokes at the hub, you would have a 4 cross pattern.
skip 10, and you have a 5 cross pattern.
As far s dropping spokes in, I like to drop the outside spokes in all at once. It is easy to insert a spoke from inside to outside, but once half the wheel is laced it becomes difficult to drop the ones in from the outside as they get tangled in the laced up spokes.
The rest is repetition skip 1 on the rim, skip (6,8,or10) on the hub, over and over again. just keep making your parallel pairs all the way around.
So whether you are looking at the hub, or the rim, you are always going every other hole, or skipping 6, 8, or 10.
[ March 20, 2006, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]
Good luck finding a Phil cutting/threading machine. They are like works of art (from a machinist's point of view anyway) and are highly sought after.
These units roll the threads into the spoke. There is no cutting or removal of material going on. This makes for the strongest thread possible.
These units roll the threads into the spoke. There is no cutting or removal of material going on. This makes for the strongest thread possible.
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