Raced mainly East Coast in the late 70's-'85..some Socal in '82...then raced a vintage race on a new SoCal track in '2004.

Looks like everything has to be more extreme than the generation before to be considered progressive...maybe like a cup of coffee, then it takes 2, 3 and 4 cups to get the same buzz after a while..question is..how many cups are too much.

In my experience it was a big let down in a way, the tracks seem mechanized and too perfect, not much room for error, their paved with asphalt on the berms and packed down with a glue type substance mixed with dirt..feels just like concrete, not much speed passing with all the jumps, no dirt slides or dicing it out on the straights, the guy that gets the holeshot usually wins it, halfway through the race the gate is dropping for the next moto so it's somewhat confusing trying to watch it all.

As far as a spectator sport, it's fairly predictable and somewhat boring to watch from the bleachers compared to the old days. Seemed like the sport has turned into a mainstream event like soccer, baseball, football..more neighborhood people doing it, more profits for the track and sanctioning body but it requires mechanizing the whole thing to finish a day of racing..now it only takes about 2 hours to start and finish a "day of it", then the whole family is ready to split for something else to do. I took my girlfriend and she was yawning after 10 minutes of watching, then wanted to leave.. you never new who was going to win it on the old tracks.

Like Stu said, seems all upper body stuff now, not much speed and pedalling involved on the straights anymore, there are too many jumps and whoops, every 3 cranks your having to stop and roll up and over something (manual)..no more speed jumping and balls out pedalling, you still had the big jumps back then and obstacles that required skill, just not every few feet through the whole track. There's my 2-1/2 cents on it, i'm starting to sound like an old geezer telling the teenagers to turn down that LOUD ROCK-N-ROLL!!

Here's a pic of us racing at the 2004 Vintage Race at Orange Show Bmx (SoCal) ..far right #3 is my restored '80 Robinson..far left is Jesse Vargas (VRP racing) on an '83 Hutch..

Darrin
http://www.darrinstout.com

I have to disagree w/ you all. I was into bmx in the early 80's, and it's more fun now than it ever was. When I came back to it after 16 years, everything seemed foreign. The bikes were different; the uniforms were different; most of the people were different; THE TRACKS WERE DEFINITELY DIFFERENT. I constantly felt uncomfortable riding because the tracks were too hard for me. I actually ended up pushing it too hard to learn how to flow through and front cased into a step-up and went OTB, landing flat-bottom and breaking my arm. It was only my third race back. I got a bit discouraged and thought maybe this isn't for me anymore; the sport is just too different now. But I gave it another try and got back out there. Then things started coming back... jumping, gates, fitness...now I would never want to go back. Once you learn it's about "backside", and not about "pedalling", you won't want to go back either. I read posts from people complaining how modern BMX is "follow the leader" and how lame it is to watch everyone manual everything. You know, go back and watch some old footage of racing twenty+ years ago...the speeds are not as fast as you think and it's really not that exciting if you watch it w/ an open mind. I think the speeds are faster now-even thought there are more jumps. The berms are bigger, allowing riders to maintain speed, and if you utilize the backsides of the jumps properly, you'll actually build speed w/o ever having to pedal at all. Also, take notice of the gears most riders use these days. Most run bigger than we used to bitd, indicating that speeds probably are higher.

Jim, I'm not sure if you've actually been out on a newschool track;if you haven't, try not to let it intimidate you and give it a season or two of regular riding...then come back and re-read this post and see if you've changed you're opinion...

Yeah, it's all relative John...a straight speed rush like the old tracks or up and down rush on the new jump tracks..either way your getting the juice, just a little different way...everything goes in cycles I guess, it'll probably go back and pull from the roots when the newer Supercross track thing gets old and tired..just like music does.

the question was not if it's more fun now.

my teammate from BITD reminded me recently that we pushed for a more technical track back then and he's right. me and my son practiced at the local track last tues night and it was just under 50 degrees, no wind, track was dry and fast...perfect!
i'll keep learning the new school way but would like to see some old school tracks happen again! variety is the spice of life!
mike

Pat ,
Why don't you and Cash get together to make this track happen complete with a nice long fast stretch that sends you one-footed around a big flat and slippery sweeper ( remember ,you need a lot of speed to make around to the other side) and I'll be there at least twice a week.
Art

1982
River CIty BMX - San ANtonio,Tejas

[img]http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=inwbjt[/img]

Hmm. I clicked " Image" then entered the URL.
No Pic.
I'll try again.

That last pic was my 1982 "comeback" race.
Double points. Raced 17+ Inter.
3 Full gates of us.
In the main, I was last one to turn1 and first out of that turn. I kept the lead to the end too.
A few months later, I had the big fracture / dislocation.
Just had the screws and plate removed this year.

Holy Smokes! I am old!
Memory going bad already.
That wasn't 1982.

It was 1984 !
Still BITD.

oh I would like to for sure. me and cash talk about it. i am a little on the lazy side, so a track with no jumps and no berms would be easy maintenance!!

If you resize photos to 800x 600 before posting them they fit on the page....FWIW.

Would be cool to have a downhill like Corona or Weinert Mtn. again...you could be out of it for 25 years and be sportin' a belly from 25 beers...then let gravity pull you to the finish line...

nitrotwang,
That would rock!
Pat,
Now you're telling me that you're too lazy?
How bad do you want it? You even mentioned having a piece of land in mind.
Just think of it as an exercise program.
Oh wait. Forget I ever said that.

The other question on this topic is? Who had the tougher tracks, NBL or ABA?? I think the NBL was faster, the ABA was slower but more difficult. Stompin Stu, what do you think?? Was it a east coast or west coast that was easier???

Mongo

i've been racing bmx non stop for 27 years .i miss some of the old tracks but you must have progression .todays tracks are still lots of fun .I guess i just love bmx know matter what.

How 'bout the same gate drop "announcer tape loop" they have at all the new tracks...not much room for surprize anymore, you don't even have to watch the gate move, just memorize it.

we have several different scenarios in mind and several pieces of land. it's just the fact of getting off the old butt and doing it. once a track starts getting built, everybody is going to think it has to be a freakin' desoto or something. i would get ganged up upon by austinites wanting a rockford. my little jumps would turn into mountains, i would have no say on my own track. the bmx mob rules. you turn around and they got a tractor or a shovel in their hand, it's like the night of the living dead, all these zombies running around with shovels and rakes, and they won't die!!

Then the zombies get on bikes and since they're zombies, they can't ride the stuff they built. They crash and next thing you know, there's zombie parts everywhere. Eeew what a mess.

they won't ride the bikes, they just throw them in disgust at the jumps

Hucking zombies...

ok. i don't get it. why are yall so down on the zombies. man they are people too. kinda. well they used to be. and it really isn't fair to make such broad generalizations like that. i bet some of them can ride just fine. hell probably some of the folks you race are zombies and you just don't know it. where's the love man. where's the love...

Most Zombies are reclassified Pros, moving back to intermediate just to pick up some hardware. Its not right! Just because they're mostly dead doesnt mean they ought to be sandbaggin'.

Signed,
Pit Dads against Ex-Pro Zombie Sandbaggers

Hey some of my favorite musicians are Zombies!
Keith Richards for example.

Pat,
Try to find a spot closer to halfway between Austin and S.A.
San Marcos area for example.
You,Me, Cash,Stevo,Jim Betts, and perhaps Kevin Bausch could do it.
Perhaps bring in a few more "old guys" to help.
Swear them to secrecy.
Leave all the kids out of the picture until it's done.
Then if the kids don't like it, they can go someplace else.
heck we don't even need to have a sanction. Just draw up a waiver( ride at your own risk) for riders to sign.
Send out the invites here.
Build it and they will come.

dude, you should see the new lone star.... just go see it. ok, next topic, after I spoke with a very reputable track operator, he tells me there is NO WAY that the aba would sanction an old style track, because you have to make it raceable for a state qualifier, and the track I described to him, he said no way. Shannon? Elvis? Basically he was telling me my ideas would not fly, in the interest of having a track that is comparable to others, and worthy of state series racing. And, I would have to wrestle the shovels out of the hands of the zombies. Then there's that.

oh, and the idea of our own old school sanction or no sanction, i thought of that, the liability issues frighten me.

Something’s only come once in a lifetime .You can try but you can never go back.
Old style BMX tracks are a thing of the past just like our youth, once you have been there and lived it you can never get it back.
But it’s kind of interesting to think back and remember the good old days.
We were lucky to have more than one jump per straight away.

More than likely the old track style will come back in one way or another when the new track experience is worn out, if even just for a while...although there's probably a lot more new combinations and new designs to tap into before that comes into play again.

They had state qualifiers on the old style tracks back in the day as well so I don't think you could say it wasn't raceable, it just had a different cool vibe, everybody still got a rush from it and that's what really counts....everything that worked once comes around full circle. People confuse "different" with better just because it's new and interesting for the time being as with the new tracks...

In other areas you've got retro this and retro that making a return in every kind of market..it excites old people again that haven't experienced it in a long time and exposes the young kids to something different, makes it fresh again when the new stuff is getting worn out...It was all about 150 mph performance street bikes in the 90's but Vintage style Harleys are back, Vintage Vans are back, Longboards are back, Schwinns Stingrays are being reproduced, Bell bottom pants, 80's flashback radio..10 years ago nobody was into this old stuff.

and im lost,,i just wanna race ,,,,new kids are comfortable on todays tracks? wow racing was scary when i started in 77,,,let alone really having problems with the track,,,,,,,,im sorry but we used to have several motos i remember in each class,,,,prehaps i dont feel it is that easy anymore but i dont think the novices do either

yes, tinman, new kids either get comfortable real fast or they don't race at all. that's the thing, my track would cater to beginners. and old school guys. but this TO said you can never go back. you can't have two types of tracks. one style track is it, he says. that way when somebody travels to you they are not mad they drove all that way for a joke of a track. and my track would be a laugher.

Having raced BITD 76-83 and then racing now a few times, I'd say they slowed the sport down with all the jumps, etc. which is probably how someone decided to run with toe clips. LOL! I show up with Vans and an open faced helmet and they look at my like I'm nuts..
The speeds are slow on todays tracks and you don't even have to pedal on certain tracks because of the jump configurations and that slows down your momentum... makes sense

I miss the concrete indoor races with the comp II stadium tyres

I race a few times a year (auto-x off season) to keep the racing spirit.

If you guys build an "old school" track, are you going to put in all the braking bumps, ruts, rocks, and of course, the dust powder that was always in that big first turn BITD.


I suggest that everyone that wants an old school feel, check out the race footage on Joe Kid.

We are all just a bunch of pus*ies compared to what the kids rode on in the late 70's, eayly 80's......

THAT WAS MOTOCROSS!!!!!!

RC

we had smooth tracks back then as well, it was called concrete and wood, and there was no room to get up speed, short straight, tight turns, wood jumps with long backside so you can't pump. gearing: 41-16

Many of the tracks were I grew up in the Mid to Late 70's were very much ruttie, rocky and dusty, so I know what its like to race in those conditions.

I agree with some of what you say RC. tracks got "polished up" going into the 82-83ish years. I think that was because of the sanctions. We had NBA then NBL (short time) then of course the ABA and things were certainly more structured in those years and the track conditions reflected that.

Our first starting gate was a bungy cord tied to a tree and the bike shop owner let it snap when it was time to race, and sometimes the guy on the end of that cord got the lash across the arm. LOL !!!

The first indoor race in Minesota was in a small ice hockey arena and they made wooded jumps and they say on partical board over the ice, thats right, partical board. I bet Dave Christenson, Shawn Sheely and a few other on this site remember that.
I grew up in Austin MN (Home of Hormel) and we had the first dirt track in the state and the first indoor event in the state and I just think it was fun to be involved in something so new to everyone at that time ( 1975 )...

BTW, that was suppose to say the wooden jumps "sat" on partical board NOT say... sorry

Brad, in my home town of ottumwa, the austin hormel went on strike and ottumwa guys went also for solidarity and they shut down ottumwa and kept austin open. were you ever part of that bad to the bone team that would come to cedar rapids with robinson bikes with green parts? that was a trip. there were these dudes that came to iowa, i think christenson was on that team. we have brought it up before on vbmx. i think they later became team rondo.

That would be Mr Sandberg, and Dave Christiensen, Steve Redelesberger and the boys of Team Temco (sp) Mfg. They were wussies. Still are...lol....



What...???

John can fill in all the history there...quite a sponsorship rollercoaster...

I can help on this topic, and John , Chime in if you like

Team Tremco was Jack Dohgerty's first team named after his siding company in Owatonna MN. It was Dave C. and a slew of riders from about every age group. Then came Rondo team which Jack keeped the better riders from tremco. LAst but not least it was Tahoe which he basically keeped Dave and John Sandberg. there were a few others, but Dave and John were the Tahoe poster children ( with all due respect). My friend Sean Miland was on that team too. Then I think it sold off to someone in Michigan or Ohio, something like that. It was talked about in another thread and I was corrected already.

Pquinn, sounds like you lived the P9 strike experince too. I had quit racing at the end of 83 and the strike wasn't until 86-ish, but my Dad's business was across the street from the local P9 office. NICE!!!! it was a long 2 yrs man!

Do you remember Rydjor Bike Shop? that was my first bike shop sponsor.. heehee

Yes, we were in high school for the P9. We all got in a friend's car, went by the plant late one night, and started yelling something that sounded like P9 but was a cuss word. They were throwing stuff at us. Well, then we were lighting firecrackers near the pens where the pigs were and listening to them scream. We were also cruising the back lots of the plant in that same car when we saw all these cop car cherries coming at us over the weeds, so we drove out the back door and we were gone. The national guard was called out to Ottumwa during that strike, and some people got beat up. We were just crazy kids who had nothing better to do because we were not racing anymore. It may have been 1985 or 1986.

i just want to know how on earth tremco got green kashimax seats, green snap pads, green oakley grips, green brake calipers, in like 1979-80?? that blew my mind.

Don't sit around and wish about the old days like a V-TARD get out and ride !

I race, but we are in the break, dec 15 to jan 1. after the break we are racing in austin on new year's eve.