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The Official Rockford "Post Mortem" Thread, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly (cue music)
Tim Earp
post Jun 23 2009, 08:42 PM
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Voting- Lots of improvements can be made. Some as simple as having a box of cheap pens handy so folks who don't have one handy are not running around going "Dude, can I borrow a pen?" To making voting a little more sophisticated by having the ballots have a 1-10 rating on predetermined criteria, making this less of a popularity contest.

Scedualing Having a plan "A" that does not compansate for weather, and then a plan for rain outs on each possable day is the way to go. IE: Friday rains out- we know racers are going to be late on saturday, to compansate we do this... -more an issue of knowing where the flexability is. my perspective was that eveything went more or less at its scedualed time.

Loved the location, I think that the Clocktower has some issues to address befor some folks will want to stay again. The roof, the computer system and maybe backup power.

Were their complaints about all the cameras? Hiring a full time photog may save the lost moments but does that mean the rest of us not bringing ours?
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race_inc
post Jun 23 2009, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE
I think that the Clocktower has some issues to address befor some folks will want to stay again. The roof, the computer system and maybe backup power.


Yeah the Clocktower was my only complaint! Walked into my room and the heat was on, probably to dry out the damp carpet. Turned on the AC and it wouldn't blow cold air, oh probably because the filter had about a 1/2" of dust on it. Once I cleaned that out, it blew cold. Oh and if you use a debit card, you get charged a $50 deposit for whatever reason, found this out 2 days later. I called them and they told me I should have been informed this when I checked out. Well I wasn't and if I knew that to be the case, I would have just used a credit card to save the hassle! They fixed it all though after a nice talk with corporate!
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Cash Matthews
post Jun 23 2009, 09:33 PM
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As far as November goes, why not just load up on the Grands? We have a full room to use and there are 1,000's of people there already. Last year the Tulsa Militia got together and held a show at the Grands and gave away a very cool trophy for the best vintage bike. This thing is gaining momentum, we have a great room we can lock, and the facility is top notch. Plus, you are supporting a real live bmx race and so many collectors never make it out to the track. This would complete the circle of the time and space throttle line and everything would be just right.

How bout it...Tulsa in November? I will be there and I am bringing the show winner...1974 Webco with Moto Mags...

Tommy, get that trophy engraved for me....this is gonna be awesome!!

Juan: Sorry we didn't get to hang out at Rockford. Your stuff is amazing! Let's make sure we touch down next time!!!

Cash
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Kip
post Jun 24 2009, 07:34 AM
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First off, THANK YOU Mike, Joey, Cash, and to anyone who did anything to organize, or run this past weekends festivities!!!!

The Friday night Chill With Ron W was better than I anticipated it would be!!!! Awesome to hear a freestyler Fri night and a racer the next night.
The Clocktower is a nice place for the "headquarters".

The few things that could have been better were the slide show not being addressed, it looked like some of the pics had some stories behind them. I wish Stu could have gone through the slides with us and then sat down with Cash for the one on one. It could have lasted longer, but then again, I could listen to Stu tell stories for as long as he has stories to tell!!!! lol

At first Stu's bike was to be raffled off but was auctioned off instead. It probably made more money for Stu's charity which was awesome, but it limits the chances for the majority to win it. I'm glad to see it went for what it did!


Other than that, it was a fantastic weekend!!!
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Kip
post Jun 24 2009, 07:45 AM
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One other thing, Tulsa in November sounds pretty good!!!!!
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area211
post Jun 24 2009, 11:03 AM
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QUOTE (MikeCarruth @ Jun 22 2009, 12:45 PM) *
The rules for the Custom Class, which the members had input into approving, stated:

A "Custom Bike" is any entry which is a complete bike that:
1). has been modified or altered to take on an appearance or functionality other than that for which it was manufactured or; 2). Was built, in full or in part, as a previously-unmanufactured "concept" by an individual, custom build shop or other entity. A bike is not deemed "custom" if the "nude" (no paint/plating, no decals) appearance of the entry would not be altered from comparable mass production models...


Right, or wrong, those were the rules of the show for 2009. We put them out on April 16 for review and discussion among the members, and kept it open for four days. We had some member-inspired tweaks, but nothing on this point. We can all address the 2010 rules, and see what makes the most sense (without chopping the show in to a million classes (Ala "Best 1980s bike with Titanium Pedal Shafts"). 10 classes is good for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the time it takes for the voters to complete their ballots.

The Custom Class was more intended to address the "chopped and cropped" entries of making a big tube pit bike, or a pit bike into a cruiser, or some such. It did not do as well in resolving what happens when someone employs other than original factory finishes. To me, that bike was not a "custom," but could have been classified as a "modified" on that basis (which was not a class...this year).

First of all, great job on the show Mike!

Although, I don't have any answers to this year's big perplexity... I do have some bits of food-for-thought to further feed the debate for next year's custom category definition. And, after reading the "member approved" rules again, (and as Mike has been pointing out), it's clear the 80's Race copper-parted Red Line bike does NOT fit into the 2009 "Custom" category:
"A bike is not deemed "custom" if the "nude" (no paint/plating, no decals) appearance of the entry would not be altered from comparable mass production models..."
Although, ONE CAN ARGUE that this particular bike pushed the visual limits to the extreme... but we are also talking "finish" here... nothing structural.

There were many ways in which bikes were "customized" BITD. Repainted (like the custom JMC "Blue Mist" Black Shadow - BMXA 1982) or chrome-plated alloy parts (like Hutch's privately chromed SunTour, Dia-Compe, Araya, components in 1981 or even the Jason Jensen copper-parted Torker). I suppose they were considered custom then, so maybe they should be today as well?? I DON'T KNOW. But WHERE and HOW do you draw the line? If it was physically done in the 80's then it's NOT custom?? But if it was done today it IS custom? Unless it is based on a known vintage custom, then it's NOT custom?? Huh??? This quickly becomes a very slippery slope and not easily defined.

Are we going to call a repainted or re-powdered frame custom? Probably not, right? What if it's a wildly different color? Maybe yes? But what if it's similar? hmm.... The same could hold for plating... which logically isn't really different. It's a visual finish color... and granted, yes, custom. What about a chrome-plated goose that was originally nickel? Or a polished Ripper that should have been burnished?

To make the matters further challenging, the category rule states that the "nude" appearance must match comparable marketed models... How often have we seen drilled chainrings, brakes, seats, hubs, etc, etc. This are CLEARLY "race-inspired" alterations... but also CUSTOM. And those ARE STRUCTURAL alterations (not merely finish). Yet, a drilled-out out JMC mini would seem TOTALLY out of place in the custom category. Probably as much as the copper Red Line seemed IN 80's race category.

Is one to base it on percentage of customization? And how could you possibly define that. All the scenarios quickly become judgement calls... and judgments that will vary with each person's discrimination.... and cause disagreements and arguments between the knowledgeable and authoritative peers among us. So how are we going to "define custom"?? We'll know it when we see it?? hmmm... note Justice Stewart's 1964 comment on obscenity: "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it..." ...OK. Good luck.
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MikeCarruth
post Jun 24 2009, 11:13 AM
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I think, perhaps, this is leading to a "Modified" category, and a "Custom" category. The copper plated parts on the Redline were not custom...but they were modified from factory appearance. Maybe that is the way to address it. I am still sort of shaking the weekend off, so I will reply more later on all that has been said here. Thanks for the great input, and I hope you'll all keep it flowing.

Best,

M

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Greg_Hanna
post Jun 24 2009, 11:41 AM
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The thing that I "least like" about that situation is that I would hate for these "restored" bikes to start looking like LO-RIDERS. A leopard skin covered Kashimax Aero would still be considered a Kashimax Aero under the pimped out cover, as applied to this year's rules. Certain aspects of this year's rules make sense, under Juan's Candy red paint was Chrome which was an original color for his bike. But under that copper plating there was no originally available color or finish on many of the parts.

Plus, the owner was pointing out special hard parts and/or hardware that he had made. The decals were not original or even repro, they were flat out custom. I'm not bashing the owner, this situation happened through no-ones fault, it just happened. AND it is a beautiful bike.

I'm sure Mike will make some adjustments, again great job on the event!!
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bmxerpete
post Jun 24 2009, 07:29 PM
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Mike, first and foremost...thanks. You did a great job, and I had a great time. And thanks to everyone who helped out, without you guys I'm quite sure Mike would have been found babbling in a corner somewhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The good points are obvious...Rockford is an amazing show and seeing everyone is the best part.

The bad parts...the Clocktower needs a little rehabbing for sure. The ac in our room sounded like a generator every time it kicked on. The power and tv going out repeatedly kinda got old, and our room had some issues with the bathroom door.

Cash, I love ya man but I also wanted to hear Stu tell more stories, especially some of the ones behind the photos. But Cash, you did do a great job being "Conan".

The rules for the bike classes definitely left room for interpretation, and I think there is a big difference between restored bikes and show bikes. Maybe the rules need to be tweaked to separate the two? And is there a possibility for a true separate class for mid school bikes other than the "open" class?

Other than that, it was great. Thanks again- see ya next year.
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Cash Matthews
post Jun 24 2009, 07:55 PM
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Pete!

It was great to see you again man and I was psyched to see that Ashtabula!

We had a few troubles getting the slide show to actually "slide" so the picture concept sort of failed. Those pics he had were amazing like the one of the 3 porches from the side. As with everything, we learn something each time and move forward. Who are we going to interview next year? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )
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