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Sandbag (or cheater) Call-out
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post May 30 2006, 03:39 PM
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Notice anything interesting about the results below:

First, courtesy of the ABA website, the State points for NC for 7 year olds:

Place Riders Class Points # of SCR/PCR races
1 ZAKARY GRANT Inter 36 2
2 ALEX MOORE Inter 34 2
3 BRAXTON TUBBS Inter 33 2
4 WILLIAM FURR Novice 25 2
5 TRAYVON WAYMYERS Inter 19 1
6 DAMON MANESS Inter 16 1
7 MASATO PISCHKE Novice 16 1
8 NOAH ERICKSON Novice 15 1

Now, courtesy of the NBL's website from the Tarheel results:
7 ROOKIE

NBL # NAME STATE M1 M2 M3 MN
481580 WAYMYERS TRAYVON NC 1 1 2 1
544073 SCOTT RYAN NJ 2 1 1 2
544229 STAPLETON JORDAN TN 3 3 3 3
538538 PICINOTTI EVAN PA 4 4 4 4
496450 STROBEL MATTHEW SC 5 5 5 5
553203 NORWOOD GREENE COLE VA 6 6 6 0

There is an ABA intermediate racing rookie at an NBL National and winning. Not the first time. It started at the Smitty's regional. Okay, perhaps Dad was not up on the current rules at that time, but he was informed in Summerville by another parent, but perhaps he simply "forgot" to correct it before the Tarheel race.

I know, I am mudslinging here, but the cheating needs to stop. It is insane. Since I am on my high horse, I forwarded this on to the NBL so they can correct it.

Anyone offended, can happily send me PM's telling me what a Jack butt I am, but that's cool. I hear it all the time.....

[ June 01, 2006, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Bags1 ]
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jeromefriesenhah...
post May 30 2006, 03:46 PM
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What are the rules? I am not that parent. If you are rookie/novice, and you go up in class in ABA, by default are you bumped up in NBL?

I think sandbagging is good, it teaches our kids how to "work the system". Remember the welfare saying, "If yo don't work the system, the system will work you!"

I swear, my mom was on welfare for a bit after my dad died, and I remember her social worker in Oakland telling her that!
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Guest_Bags1_*
post May 30 2006, 03:53 PM
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In the NBL, the rule is (summarizing) that if you sign up with the NBL, and already own a liscence in another sanction, you must sign up in the equivilant class as the other sanction.

ABA / NBL
Novice = Rookie
Intermediate = Novice
Expert = Expert

I believe the ABA has the same rule.
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HRPdesigns
post May 30 2006, 04:04 PM
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Wow, I am just glad you were not calling me out...

Bags, I have to ask to be fair, was it a combined class at Tarheel? Otherwise, I agree the rider must ride in the same level in both sanctions. And if the team manager was telling the father that just to milk the points, he should be suspended. they do it to crew chief s in Neckcar so why not in the NBL.
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jeromefriesenhah...
post May 30 2006, 04:09 PM
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I understand at the time of sign-up, classes hould be equivilant, but what about 3 months later, and you mostly race ABA, and have only raced ABA twice. What do the rules specifiy for this?

Again just wondering.
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Guest_Bags1_*
post May 30 2006, 04:15 PM
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HRP,

At nationals, proficiencies are not combined.

You are officially a bagger now that you won the intermediate race in Atlanta. Sanbagger.....Just kidding.
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Titanium Tim
post May 30 2006, 04:21 PM
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From what I understand it, sandbagging is actually racing and then losing on purpose so as not to advance, but I am just picking nits there.

From the ABA rules:

"Any rider competing with another association or organization must compete in the similar
classification at any ABA sanctioned event. If a rider’s classification status changes in
another association or organization, that rider’s ABA status must immediately be changed to
be comparable."


It is the child's and parent's responsibility to read the rules and understand them. Playing dumb is not an excuse.

Sadly, too many parents focus on winning and we end up with things like the above as well as sandbagging which was my biggest complaint in the thread about what you dislike.

[ May 30, 2006, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: veritas137 ]
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Just JeffB now
post May 30 2006, 04:25 PM
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I see it this way: ride at your skill level. Elvis called me out on another forum for previously riding as an expert in the NBL, but returning to the sport as an ABA novice. It had been 15 years since I raced and my skills were nowhere to be found. I moved myself up to inter after only two wins.

My son is one win away from turning inter, and he can`t wait! He has been doing his sprints every day now that he`s out of school just to get faster. He knows moving up a class is a rite of passage for getting better. He understands that simply being an expert rider is cooler than winning as a novice or inter. He knows it means more. Sandbaggers are petty creatures who will never really develop a sense of accomplishment.
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Deanna
post May 30 2006, 04:36 PM
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Good call Bags!
This happened with a local team, the kid raced ABA Intermediate and then turned around and won both days in Ft. Wayne as a Rookie. I'm not posting names and what is done is done but I wonder how much Leadsled and I posting on here prompted the NBL to take away the teams earnings for that race (They won both days) and bump the kid up to the class he should have been racing in the first place. The NBL made a great call but I would have liked to see them take it further and DQ the team and rider for a period of time.

Regardless, I would contact the NBL and push for them to penalize the rider and the team this time. Sandbagging and racing out of class is unfair and should not be handled lightly. I applaud you for calling this out if we keep on doing it parents and teams will think twice about breaking these rules.
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Ken Pliska
post May 30 2006, 04:38 PM
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quote:
I see it this way: ride at your skill level. Elvis called me out on another forum for previously riding as an expert in the NBL, but returning to the sport as an ABA novice. It had been 15 years since I raced and my skills were nowhere to be found. I moved myself up to inter after only two wins.

I see it this way:

Follow the rules.

ABA Novice is reserved for new racers that have never raced before. Per the rules, you should have signed up as an Intermediate when you signed up if you had ever been Expert in any sanction.

------------------------------

Back to this thread:

Hopefully, if that parent had been given correct information from said TM, the parent would have moved his kid up. We'll never know.
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