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Who wants to learn to polish?
Mr. Smith
post Sep 1 2007, 09:18 PM
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'75 or '76 Goose ? No question about...your work speaks for itself. Makes me want to tear my '77 long frame all apart and buy a buffing kit ! Hats off to your quality work.
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Ted Carl
post Sep 2 2007, 02:53 AM
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First Question's answer; 1975, with the welded lug, and wider tapered seat stay.

quote:
Ted, i dont want this to happen to my frames welds...can you give me any info on what this person may have forgot to stress with the chromer in regards to the welds?, thanks, claude
Long answer, but worth reading if anyone wants the truth of this matter.

There were photos attached with the question, but I am not going to risk making someone mad, especially since they might belong to someone here, and they might think it was the greatest plating job ever. It does shine.

Here is my 02 on the subject. The whole problem lies nomenclature, and in the definition of the task at hand.

A typical plating shop that we are looking for is a specialist in "Decorative Chrome Plating". "Industrial chrome plating" is an entirely different subject.

Therefore, "Decorative Chrome Plating" is their job, their money, their bread and butter. The entire pretense for their business lies in the assumption that you want DCP done to parts. You want bling, and it is their job to give it to you, and a good shop does that very well. .

When you hand them a part, their job is to make it shine. Most of their parts are new and/or custom Harley parts, show car parts, custom made hod rod parts, and old car parts, etc...Things of that nature.

Here is where the whole thing goes awry. By definition, what many people (Vintage BMXers specifically) expect from a DCP shop is actually a "Restoration".

A DCP shop does NOT do restorations, they do "Bling", nothing more, nothing less. So IMO this is where things go awry.

This is (one of the reasons) why I like to polish, and do the work myself, and why I am offering up the whole thread for the taking.

Essentially what I have tried to convey in this whole thread, is "How "Polishing" can be used to "Restore" VBMX parts. What I try to do is keep all original lines, remove damage, and make it shine. It is time consuming and hard work to do a "Restoration". Take the DX pedals as an example, they were shot, beat, and had one foot in the trash. But I did my best to "Restore" the original lines of the pedals, and make them into something worthy of viewing, that could bring back memories of how cool the item was, and how cool it is now. The fact that they were trashed gives them satisfaction as well.

The DCP is NOT concerned with any of that. You want a long lasting, durable, and most of all, a "Shiny" finish.

If you want a part to be "Restored" to it's original shape, with original lines, but with a greatly restored and ultimately "improved finish" but don't want to do it yourself, then you are going to need to be VERY specific with your DCP shop. You are going to have to explain to them, that you want them to do a "Restoration" on the part, and you want it to look "Original" when they are done, AND then, you can expect to get out your checkbook, or be turned away altogether, because they are NOT a restoration shop, that is NOT what they do. They only do DCP.

So when you hand them your part, that is all they see, is a part you want shiny. Then they do what they know how to do, and do what they need to do to provide you with DCP, and they are in the business to make money, so they want to do it as fast as they can. They start by using the roughest polishing compound they have and they start removing pits, damage, and any surface imperfections, using any means necessary. They will even die grind it, sand it, strip it, bead blast it, or whatever it takes to get it to the polishing wheel asap and start smoothing that surface in preparation for chrome. They don't care about sharp corners, or welds. As far as they are concerned those are simply imperfections that annoy them. So they buff, and they buff, and they blow the welds down, (sorry the sentence just flowed right into that, lol), they make it smooth, and they do it fast, because they hate their job like everyone else, and they want their money so they can go do something fun with it. But they don't want the customer to complain, and that means they need to make it smooth as a baby's butt.

So, how do you prevent chrome plating disasters whereby they remove all the welds, and round off the corners? There are a few choices IMO:

First you can tell them that you would rather have less bling, and a more original looking part because you don't want to destroy welds or corners, or lines. They can probably work with that, because they know you don't expect a flawless "Bling", and you won't be mad if they "Under Buff and Polish it". It is a realistic, and compromising approach to it all.

Second, you can hope for a sympathetic DCP shop owner, that likes to do Restorations as part of his process. ....Get out your checkbook, and exchange lots of update and clarification phone calls, or personal meetings with them.

Third, you can do the "Restoration" work yourself, removing the damage, protecting the corners, taking care of the welds, repairing everything that needs it correctly, in short, "Restore the part", and then tell your DCP shop exactly what you want to have done with regard to plating, and why, and that you don't want them to undo any of what you have done, but rather, you just want them to leave those areas alone, but that they can buff the heck out of everything else, and give you a superb looking plating job based on YOUR restoration of the part. Your expectations are now known, and it is reasonable for them to meet them at a reasonable price.

That is my objective with the goose. That is the approach I am trying to offer up on this part of the thread.

To be really certain, I would also recommend this; I would use a black grease pencil, or sharpie, and mark anything important on the part. When I deliver this goose to the plating shop, I intend to hang a tag on the coaster brake lug stating "DO NOT buff off the edge welds on this lug!!!", as they LOVE to buff edges, which adds bling, and edges cut easily on the buffer. I will hang yet another tag that says "preserve all welds, don't polish off". I will also circle any damage that will need further attention. And I will state that I want a buffing after the copper plating before the nickel, and that I want "Double Nickel".

Yes, I will explain it to the owner when I drop it off, but then it will be place on a shelf, and which "Kid" is going to get the job? Will Gary do it personally? Maybe. Or will he remember to tell his employee everything? Will his employee be listening and paying attention? Will he, for that matter? Rhetorical questions, and I don't know for sure, so whoever gets the job, and picks up the part will have to read and remove the tags, and remove the markings. ....It's the best I can do. And IF there is a problem after all that, I have recourse. Because the owner was told, the parts were marked as such. Period. On top of that, issue them a detailed work order as well. No questions, no room for BS if they did not comply at that point. Expectations known, and within THIER job description, DCP.

Sorry for the huge deal, but that is the real answer IMO. You restore, they plate, good communication, error to the safe side, .... everyone is happy.
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masterstint
post Sep 2 2007, 10:40 AM
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Perfect Ted!!, thank you for your time and detailed explanation....i am a "t" crosser and "i" dotter,therefore it is greatly appreciated.... i can now go into my chroming process with more knowledge from you, then i wouldv'e gained "the hard way", over the next year+!!! ...you hit the nail on the head when describing chrome platers as "decorative chrome platers/job is to make it shine, by any means necessary"........ i also know my choices too, prep it myself, OR, whip out the checkbook....thanks, claude
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Ted Carl
post Sep 6 2007, 04:33 AM
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I had no intentions of documenting the table scraps of parts I am trying to get ready to go with the goose to get plated.

But, I got to thinking about the last question, and how it lead to bringing parts back from the dead. I realized It may not be completely apparent just how much can be restored using these techniques. A "use your imagination" post, if you will, seemed in order.

So I took a pic of the seat clamp that is now ready for chrome. These basic Schwinn seat clamps have never seen such glory, lol. They were stamped and folded and bent, and dunked in a quick chrome bath. They were cheap to make and cheap to buy, but that all changes with the times, now they are far more useful to collectors and far more expensive to buy, and harder to find.

Clamp assembled.

(IMG:http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8932/assembledreadyforchromekt6.jpg)

As I was working on it, I realized that I should use them as a fine example of bringing back parts that were a certain candidate for the trash.

I used the same techniques as I did on the Pro Neck bolt.

The only special tool? An old Pro Neck bolt to help hold the nut, and align it flat to the belt sander.

Tool
(IMG:http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1542/clampnotassembledcw2.jpg)

Then I also realized that I had not taken any before photos. ...If you would have seen the nut, you wouldn't believe me that it is the same one.

The point being however, you simply can't buy these nuts at the hardware store, they were a Schwinn dealer deal. Yeah, you can get out your checkbook, and search the web for weeks and months, and surely someone has a NOS clamp for you. But why toss this in the trash? Why not fix it?

Since I had no before pix, I noticed that the "Tool" bolt that I used looked pretty bad too, so I could just do that up quick for a sample. So I did. The nut was far worse than this bolt. Buggered, pliered, and rusty too...

Nasty bolt.

(IMG:http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8404/boltnastyuv0.jpg)

It really didn't take more than about 10 minutes to do this, and since I was dirty anyway, why not? Heck, I don't even need it for anything, so I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time on something that's getting tossed back into a pile.... If it was that much work, I wouldn't do it just for a photo comparision...

Not so nasty bolt.
(IMG:http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/9639/boltrepairedae9.jpg)

That is just to the rough in stage as you can see by all the "Smudgy" looking, or "Cloudy" looking surface on it, but it could easily be made perfect from here.

And yeah, It may be a metric sized wrench needed on it now, but so what? The bolt above has nothing special about it, and aside from having a cool appearance now, there would be no real reason to take the time to restore it to this level. But the bolt with the "S" on it, and the matching nut.....thats another story, and that's what it's all about.

And the other interesting spin on all of this, is that IF you want to, once you polish the part and bring it back, you can easily copy certain matte finishes, or machine marks to make things look totally original too. But you have to bring it back to life first.

It ain't about "What I can do", It's about "What you can do too".

Look very closely at that part before it hits the trash. Maybe you could go buy a new one...but that's an important point, the supply will run out someday, why make that day come sooner than it has to? Why buy more if you don't need to?

Give it a quick sanding, and see if it doesn't suddenly look a whole lot better, and even save-able....

This is just one more original part I can put back on the goose! And this time the finish should last quite a long time.

As always, If ya missed anything, or I did, ask away.....If I know, I'll share, If not.....eh...oh well. lol

Cheers....
T

[ September 06, 2007, 07:08 AM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]
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Ted Carl
post Sep 12 2007, 03:58 AM
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I dropped it off Monday to my plater, and we "discussed it". I put a work order on the frame, and labeled it all as I suggested above with sharpie and masking tape.

Originally he said he'd do all the parts I had for $270, from strip to finish. But it needed welding and such, so I stopped him at the stripping.

He tagged me for $100 for the strip of all the parts.

Then I put a gazillion drops of sweat into it.

He said, "ill tell you what, give me another $170 and I'll make sure it's all real nice (wink), and I'll also take care of those ishy cranks real good for ya too" (which I had no intention of going overboard on them). And said it'll be done by Friday. ...

So, we'll see how it all unfolds.... But if I've properly translated his personal style of vocal inflections correctly, (and I think I have him dialed in pretty well), then he is going to hand me a pretty wicked looking Goose.

I fret when I wait, so I just wanted some company to fret with me....lol.

~~~~checks his watch again~~~~~

[ September 12, 2007, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: Ted Carl ]
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Ted Carl
post Sep 13 2007, 05:56 AM
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Plenty to discuss and observe and learn from. ...Some good, some not good. Nuff for now

Sneak preview.

(IMG:http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/6996/rearseatstaypreviewia8.jpg)

OK one more

(IMG:http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6418/dropoutpreviewwsxjo5.jpg)
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PEP
post Sep 14 2007, 02:29 PM
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Ted -

I peek at this thread once and a while & I commend you on your resto/training skills. Invaluable info for some of those pesky parts that you thought had no survival chance.

well done.
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COASTY
post Sep 14 2007, 04:30 PM
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Ted, I'm getting "GOOSE"bumps just waiting for this one. I can't wait to see it shine!
Looks unbelievable so far mate.
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masterstint
post Sep 14 2007, 06:08 PM
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same here, i would love to see the rest along with your imput as to how you feel about the job....dropouts are smoother then any factory chrome i've ever seen........which lets me know 2 of my goals are possible with my frames i'm considering re-chroming (cook bros)....one thing that i notice about cook bros frames is that both the front plate gussets(similar to goose plates) and the behind the bb gusset(also similar to gooses) arent super smooth and as shiny as i believe they have the potential to be.........seems to me(and i may be wrong/im new to this), that those parts should be some of the easiest to "pre-polish" before chroming...(please tell me im right ted??!!!)........this thread is amazing, and is building up my enthusiasm/nerve to give it a shot!!!!, thanks, claude
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